Does The Prophecy from FOTR reference Wagner's Parsifal?

[Jay 37,351]

The prologue of the film went through many versions before what they settled on. They talk about it on the old FOTR EE bonus features, and there's even a storyboard version of one version of it.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

Yes, I know that, thank you.

 

What I'm talking about here is the supposedly four minutes long composition Shore wrote for one of those shorter edits. It seems the one Doug is talking about is the one heard in The Prophecy, but we know that one isn't 4 minutes long. Hence the confusion.

[Jay 37,351]

Maybe at the time Doug was told the Prophecy track wasn't edited by someone so he went with it.  Who knows.

[Bilbo 3,709]

Is this information in the Annotated Score that came with the CR but not in the book?

[Jay 37,351]

The Annotated Score were free PDFs made available online at the time of the CR releases; They were not included inside the CRs.  And yes, the book doesn't really talk about alternate versions of scenes or music.

[Bilbo 3,709]

Well in that case I guess it's possible that Doug didn't know the Prologue was an edited track and was working on the assumption that it was a complete piece for the prologue? 

 

Seems unlikely but possible? 

[BloodBoal 7,538]

Maybe. Possibly. Probably.

[Jay 37,351]

I... just said that?

[Bilbo 3,709]

Sorry you did. I seem to have skipped your post altogether. 

[BloodBoal 7,538]

You didn't miss much!

[Bilbo 3,709]

Bit like your absence from here!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

i kid, I kid 

[Jay 37,351]

1 minute ago, Bilbo Skywalker said:

Bit like your absence from here!

 

[BloodBoal 7,538]

5 minutes ago, Bilbo Skywalker said:

Bit like your absence from here!

 

Yes, thank you, I know the forum's been boring without me. Nothing much happened while I was away.

[Jay 37,351]

Yea, just a new Spielberg film and Williams score, no big deal

[BloodBoal 7,538]

Both average, from what I gathered.

[Jay 37,351]

Go out and see it for yourself!

[Faleel 5,346]

Could you describe the missing section at 1:54?

[Jay 37,351]

@Bilbo Skywalker here are the Annotated Score PDFs in case you've never seen them

 

http://www.elvish.org/gwaith/pdf/fotr_annotated_score_2.pdf

 

http://www.henneth-annun.ru/multimedia/ttt_annotated_score.pdf

 

http://www.henneth-annun.ru/multimedia/rotk_annotated_score.pdf

 

[Bilbo 3,709]

Just now, Jay said:

@Bilbo Skywalker here are the Annotated Score PDFs in case you've never seen them

 

http://www.elvish.org/gwaith/pdf/fotr_annotated_score_2.pdf

 

http://www.henneth-annun.ru/multimedia/ttt_annotated_score.pdf

 

http://www.henneth-annun.ru/multimedia/rotk_annotated_score.pdf

 

 

 

Thank you, they were no longer available by the time I got my copies of the CRs!

[Jim Ware 526]

12 minutes ago, Fennel Ka said:

Could you describe the missing section at 1:54?

 

It's Gondorian.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

14 minutes ago, Bilbo Skywalker said:

Thank you, they were no longer available by the time I got my copies of the CRs!

 

Yeah, it's not like someone already posted the links some time ago for you to get them!

 

 

[Bilbo 3,709]

Maybe I already have them then. Will have to check later on. 

 

 

How can you even remember something like that? Struggling to remember if I've ever read them!

[BloodBoal 7,538]

I didn't remember specifically giving the links to you, I just remembered posting the annotated scores some time ago after someone asked for them. And after doing a quick research (to repost the links in this thread), I stumbled upon that post and realized it was you who asked for the annotated scores back then!

[Bilbo 3,709]

Well if they're not on the laptop at home I'll definitely download them and make sure I know them by heart so I don't need to get them a third time! 

[BloodBoal 7,538]

There won't be a third time!

[Bilbo 3,709]

?

[gkgyver 1,645]

I don't think the Wraith material in the middle of FotR is detrimental. After all, what other material is there in the film? Not much worthy picking over the existing OST tracks.

And I'd rather have that than that section of the film not being represented. The OST does a great job. I have more problems with some choices for RotK.

[SafeUnderHill 205]

[Bilbo 3,709]

So between this and the full Breaking of the Fellowship... I wonder how many other goodies there are out there still! 

[Faleel 5,346]

9 hours ago, Jim Ware said:

 

It's Gondorian.

 Is it Gondor Ascension/Decline Gondor or Silver Trumpets Gondor?

[Incanus 5,714]

3 hours ago, Fennel Ka said:

 Is it Gondor Ascension/Decline Gondor or Silver Trumpets Gondor?

Or perhaps Gondor 2nd Age theme heard in the very same Prologue version?

[Barnald 365]

Gondorian you say? I'd post the Leonardo DiCaprio 'Curiosity' gif/meme but I'd rather you didn't all hate me (at least any more than you do now).

[Faleel 5,346]

@Jim Ware I noticed that the OST track opens the cello line while the Rarities version does not, which is correct?

[Jay 37,351]

What does "opens the cello line" mean?

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Jay 37,351]

Woah... thanks for that!

[Faleel 5,346]

Figured that was the case, just wanted to be sure.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Jay 37,351]

So basically, to edit the complete cue, you'd do

 

0:00-1:11 = TRA 0:00-1:11

1:11-1:27 = TRA 1:11-1:27 OR OST 1:11-1:28

1:27-1:54 = TRA 1:27-1:54

(unknown length) = Microedited out section that's "Gondorian" goes here

1:54-2:45 = TRA 1:54-2:45

2:45-3:22 = OST 1:28-2:05

3:22-3:30 = TRA 2:45-2:51 OR OST 2:05-2:13

3:30-3:40 = TRA 2:51-3:01

3:40-4:51 = TRA 3:01-4:11 OR OST 0:00-1:11

4:51-5:05 = TRA 4:11-4:25

5:05-end = OST 2:13-end (because there's a microedit at 4:57 of TRA version)

 

EDIT: This is out of date, for corrected version go here

[Faleel 5,346]

On 8/11/2016 at 5:55 AM, Jim Ware said:

 

 

2:44 Insert 1:28-2:05 of The Prophecy here

That sounds a bit awkward, are you sure that is correct?

[Faleel 5,346]

Which of these sounds more like it should be?

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxQSwI5aPja9aGQ4M1djcE9hUUk/view?usp=sharing

[gkgyver 1,645]

First one.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

7 hours ago, Fennel Ka said:

On 11/08/2016 at 11:55 AM, Jim Ware said:

2:44 Insert 1:28-2:05 of The Prophecy here

That sounds a bit awkward, are you sure that is correct?

 

We're probably missing a few seconds of music here, which explains why it doesn't work.

[Jay 37,351]

Someone needs to release the missing seconds, precious!

[Kühni 485]

.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

Can Jim Ware just post the recording sessions? Come on, Jimmy! Come on! Do it! Dot it now!

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

I'd rather have the conductor's score. 

[BloodBoal 7,538]

Jimmy can post it too. Come on, Jimmy! Do it! Do it now!

[Jay 37,351]

I can't believe I've had the Rarities disc for almost 6 years, listened to it countless times, and never noticed that in the Prologue track, the music from 3:00-4:11 is more or less the same thing as the music from 0:00-1:11!

 

Why did Shore write it this way?  Was the onscreen footage in those two sections connected in some way that it made sense to repeat the music almost verbatim?

 

I know they are not exactly identical (different instrumentation and choral words), but they are VERY similar!

 

 

 

 

In regards to the OST track editing, this is how it goes:

 

OST 0:00-0:57 = TRA 3:00-3:56
OST 057-1:27 = TRA 0:57-1:27
OST 1:27-2:05 = music edited out of TRA version (it belongs at about 2:44)
OST 2:05-2:13 = TRA 2:44-2:50
OST 2:13-2:46 = TRA 4:25-4:57 [but it seems to be a different take - note creaking chair at OST 2:19 that's not at TRA 4:32 for example]

OST 2:46-2:57 = music edited out of TRA version

OST 2:57-end = TRA 4:57-end [but clearly a different take, OST version has nice plucked strings from 3:04-3:31 not in TRA 5:04-5:31)

 

 

 

 

For numerous reasons (louder / better mixed choir, overal better mix and sound, superior take for ending portion) I recommend using the OST whenever possible when making a combo edit.

 

In other words, do this:

TRA 0:00-0:57

OST 0:57-1:27

TRA 1:27-2:44

OST 1:27-2:13

TRA 2:50-3:01

OST 0:00-0:57

TRA 3:57-4:25

OST 2:13-end

[Faleel 5,346]

I believe the connection is The history of the Ring being Narrated by Galadriel/whoever.