Rambo: First Blood Part II versus NeoJWfan

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

http://store.intrada.com/s.nl/it.A/id.10541/.f

 

After releasing complete editions of First Blood and Rambo III Intrada is finally bringing out a super complete release of Rambo: First Blood part II. My favourite of the three and one of Goldsmith's signature action scores. Together with Total Recall

 

I have a long history with this one. My first exposure to the music was rather dubious. I had bought or gotten a "Best Movie Themes" tape way back in the early to mid 90's which turned out to have cheapo synth versions of movie tracks by the Allain Toussant Orchestra. The main theme from Rambo 2 was on it. Or at least a synth version of it.

Even without the National Philharmonic, there was something about it. And I sought out the Varese Sarabande OST, which literally blew me away and introduced my to Goldsmith's furious blend of orchestra, synth and testosterone. A few years later I got the expanded Silva Screen release. Which had more music, albeit from a imperfect source, but left out a few nuggets, including Goldsmith's end title cue.

Nevertheless the Silva has served me fine for many a year now.

 

However when i saw on Facebook that Intrada had done a utterly complete release I literally dropped everything and ordered it. I didnt even check other sites to compare prices or shipping costs.

 

I wonder if this is a score that goes down well in NeoJWFan, which seems more concerned with Wintory, and Giacchino, Desplat and Jóhann Jóhannsson.

Will a balls to the wall action score impress the newer generation of JWfans who seem to be more interested in what coming up, then what was done previously.

Film music, like so many other things has become much more fleeting and throw away in recent years. Like an iPad. You buy the latest, marvel at it for a few months and then it's obsolete. But thats fine, because the newest one is already coming and it's faster, better, thinner. And it will amaze you...for a while...

 

But especially in an age where many of the most well paid composers don't really seem to have a knack for action music it's important to treasure a release like this. Since it reminds of of a time....not very long ago...that action scores were done by people who actually had a real talent for it. Not just the furious rhythms, but the emotional intent beneath them.

[publicist 4,643]

And the farts. I wasn't initially very taken with this blunt and occasionally cheap-sounding score, no doubt because i was then (1994) more taken with Williams' polished/pseudo-classical approach. 

 

Stefan is absolutely right that we spent more time with a comparably small number of scores and i remember that 'Rambo 2' (german title) clicked for me when i was listening to the cue 'Pilot Over' at the 20th try to make me like it and thought 'well, this is kind of cool'. Since i always had an ear in popular music but saw film music as a totally divided genre this score finally made me realize that scores could be 'modern' (also: cheesy) and must not primarily be rooted in a neo-romantic past. It didn't happen with 'Axel F' or 'Miami Vice' because i instinctively realized that those were by pop composers in the first place. After i 'got' what Goldsmith actually was doing (really most of his life, where the luxurious orchestral motions of 'Poltergeist' and 'Night Crossing' were more the exception than the rule) i really wore out the old Colosseum cd. The only cue that was missing was the awesome 'Village Raid' which punchy opening i still consider a premium moment of action film music.

 

PS: it's a shame that this end title sounds so bad. Goldsmith should have put it as opener on the old album.

PSS: you can't compare this to Wintory. To Giacchino more so...

[Melange 446]

1 hour ago, Stefancos said:

Not just the furious rhythms, but the emotional intent beneath them.

 

Well speaking as a PaleoJWfan, I love the score and my favourite part plays during this scene the below which is absolutely electric.

 

0:36, the magic really kicks in, and that part at 0:40-0:46 I could listen to all day on repeat. It never fails to give me this feeling  =

 

 

 

 

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I love that cue. It's essentially just Rambo walking around with a huge -ass gun. But the music gives the scene such a charge!

 

The films is brilliant of course too, as "guilty-pleasure-so-bad-its-good" kinda way. Goldsmith's emotional scoring for the films closing scene, where sly earnestly speaks for all Vietnam vets who spilled their guts and gave everything they had, only to be spat out by Uncle Sam is excellent.

 

2 hours ago, publicist said:

Stefan is absolutely right that we spent more time with a comparably small number of scores and i remember that 'Rambo 2' (german title) clicked for me when i was listening to the cue 'Pilot Over' at the 20th try to make me like it and thought 'well, this is kind of cool'.

 

I still have the OST from Colloseum. A German pressing called Rambo 2.Teil: Der Auftrag!

 

It was simply a lot harder to get new scores, or even old releases back when I became a fan. If the local library or any of the shops around town or Amsterdam didnt carry it, it usually simply wasnt possible to get anything. NeoJWFanners have it so much better in a way. But it does mean that there's so much coming out that stuff that requirs more then 2 or 3 listens to envelop you maybe doesnt get the chance too. (remember how people thought TFA was "meh" after the first listen, and declared it as the best thing since free WIFI after the 6th listen. And many only made the effort because it's star wars and Williams.)

 

It's like porn in ye olde days compared to porn today. There seems to be far more of it, and it's ridiculously easy to get, and you never have to pay for it. And the best thing is, when you arent interested in watching porn, it's not there....

Perfect in a way, but there is a sort of romance about actually going to the supermarket aged 12 and summoning up the courage to buy a Penthouse, braving the disapproving look of the cashier, and walking out with treasure in your hands. But it's a treasure that must be kept hidden. Easy today with private browsing and steaming. But back in the paper and VHS days....

 

But it's character building!

 

 

Quote

And the farts. I wasn't initially very taken with this blunt and occasionally cheap-sounding score

 

Disagree that the score is cheap sounding, though the 80's synth and Goldsmith's utterly brutal action style doesnt have the sophistication of Williams more balletesque action scoring of around the same time.

The writing is superb though. Yes it's loud and unrelenting in it's action movements. But it's thematically intricate and sound. The way the various sections of the orchestra compliment each other rather then drown each other out is something Goldsmith fan Brian Tyler needs to pay attention too.

 

And I must be the only person alive who likes the farts. Though the me they always sounded like electric currents.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

 Nope, I like the farts too.

[Wojo 2,453]

41 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

And I must be the only person alive who likes the farts.

 

Well, you are Dutch. A Dutch oven is a matter of pride. 

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Where I come from a Dutch oven is just called a stewing pan. I have one. It's no big deal here. I guess in a country where everyone does take away cooking in a pot or pan is something special...

[Melange 446]

1 hour ago, Stefancos said:

.....but there is a sort of romance about actually going to the supermarket aged 12 and summoning up the courage to buy a Penthouse, braving the disapproving look of the cashier, and walking out with treasure in your hands. But it's a treasure that must be

kept hidden. Easy today with private browsing and steaming. But back in the paper and VHS days....But it's character building!

 

Great analogy, that. Like many of these things, sometimes the 'meantime' build up ritual is the most interesting stage, not the end point. On the day that you walked into a newsagents (after checking the entire street was clear of approaching friends of your parents first), bravely picked up that porn mag and placed it on the counter,or stopped slinking around pretending you weren't looking at the counter of porn vids in the local VHS rental shop and simply picked it up and placed it on the counter while looking the owner in the eye, something changed and the person on the counter silently acknowledged that too. The courage and prior effort was admired (I like to think) even if there were any dissaproving glances.

 

 

1 hour ago, Stefancos said:

I love that cue. It's essentially just Rambo walking around with a huge -ass gun. But the music gives the scene such a charge!

 

Yep, the music screams - "Fuuuuuu*****, you've woken the lion now!!!", that emotional intent you speak of.

 

Even at 0:24 , Jerry seems to capture that silent consent Trautman gives Rambo, setting the next stage in motion. Fantastic!

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

I like it.  It's from that period when Jerry was slowly stripping himself down to sterile (not meant in a necessarily bad way) simplicity though so it's a mixed bag. 

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

It still has the opulence of his earlier work, but already has the extreme linearity of what would follow.

 

Even though its a very rich score there doesn't seem to be a note or chord that's redundant 

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

Despite my tendencies towards minimalism his change is something I struggle with, simply because what came before was so right already.  

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

He learned to say more with less. I can only commend that.

[publicist 4,643]

I still wonder why he did that movie, considering his leanings and the, probably, bemused reaction of his mentor North, or even his friend Leonard Rosenman. I never would call the score a masterpiece - it's a bit crappy/ridiculous, just like the movie - but proof how instinctively right JG was when it came to staying on top of the zeitgeist. 

 

I don't think it's particularly simplistic, compared to much leaner stuff from the 90's (he never would have written a cue as layered as 'The Jump' for his 90's actioners).

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I would certainly call this score a masterpiece.

[publicist 4,643]

You also felt proud of buying Penthouse.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

 

He scored First Blood, but that was rather a respectable action thriller. 

Goldsmith always did have an odd taste when it comes to movies. And it really showed in the 80's.

[publicist 4,643]

'Rambo 2' was understandable from a purely commercial POV, stuff like 'Baby', 'Link' and several others...less so. The fart was supposed to sound like a rolling tank tread or something. The synthesized koto is the score's biggest crime against taste, though. But it oozes 80's video store fodder.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

You are far too cultured to have an apriciation for that type of cinema.

[publicist 4,643]

And yet i've seen it all.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

The sins of youth?

[Brónach 1,302]

I've never listened to this or the Wintory/Johansson dudes you mention.

[publicist 4,643]

Thanks for informing us.

[Jay 37,338]

5 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

The sins of youth?

 

 

[publicist 4,643]

4 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

The sins of youth?

 

I could rewind the one scene where Stallone blows up the devious vietnamese guy a million times. But the whole movies were tedious. It's really a collection of YT clips.

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

1 hour ago, Stefancos said:

He learned to say more with less. I can only commend that.

 

As you know I always embrace this as well, but in his case, I felt like he was saying everything that he needed to say with just the right amount of material in his earlier phases.  When the 90s came around, it often seemed that there was something missing, not that he had trimmed the fat and clarified his rhetoric.

[publicist 4,643]

Or that he just ran out of steam scoring endless retreads of similar chases, helicopter rescues etc. It's common wisdom that he just was afraid of not working and so, instead of waiting for a good projects, signed on to every potboiler coming his way and the music suffered for it - mainly because the 90's were less kind to composers but also because the kind of movies he often scored were of the most mundane kind (often with only 3 weeks to churn it out).

 

We were lucky that occasionally something like 'Ghost and the Darkness' happened.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Often? 

[Melange 446]

1 hour ago, Stefancos said:

You are far too cultured to have an apriciation for that type of cinema.

 

far too snobbish cultured to have..............?

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

Goldsmith's use of synths in this one and Rambo III do annoy me, depending on my mood. First Blood is such a perfect score.

[publicist 4,643]

10 hours ago, Stefancos said:

Often? 

 

Often not always. Regrettably often, i'd say.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Examples?

[publicist 4,643]

Which decade?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

1990's

 

Excluding First Contact and Air Force One!

[Brónach 1,302]

13 hours ago, publicist said:

We were lucky that occasionally something like 'Ghost and the Darkness' happened.

 

And Mulan. Those were the first kinds of Goldsmith I listened to.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Good times!

[Brónach 1,302]

I must have been, like, 16-to-17 when I first listened to those.

[Melange 446]

Captures aspects of Rambo II (movie) perfectly

 

 

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

18 hours ago, TheWhiteRider said:

 

As you know I always embrace this as well, but in his case, I felt like he was saying everything that he needed to say with just the right amount of material in his earlier phases.  When the 90s came around, it often seemed that there was something missing, not that he had trimmed the fat and clarified his rhetoric.

 

He was 20 years ahead of his time and hadn't quite cracked it yet. 

 

If if he made it to the late 2000s and today, I genuinely think he could have had an incredible Renaissance. All the pieces were in place for him to kick ass in the new film music world. The sophisticated synths, the minimalist trends, the atmospherics. 

 

Such a shame...

 

For example, think of a Goldsmith Zero Dark Thirty score...and imagine what it would sound like knowing he didn't shy away from modern trends. 

 

[publicist 4,643]

6 hours ago, Stefancos said:

1990's

 

Good to fair:

Total Recall (1990)
Gremlins 2: The New Batch (1990)
The Russia House (1990)
Basic Instinct (1992)
Forever Young (1992)
Love Field (1993)
Rudy (1993)
Six Degrees of Separation (1993)
Malice (1993)
Matinee (1993)
City Hall (1995)
The Ghost and the Darkness (1996)
L.A. Confidential (1997)
The Edge (1997)
Mulan (1998)
The Mummy (1999)

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Total Recall and Basic Instinct werent written in 3 weeks. I think none of those are. We're talking across purposes I guess.

[publicist 4,643]

A good deal probably was, at least in a similar timeframe. 'The Mummy' was, y'know.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Any proof? Or just assumptions?

[publicist 4,643]

Goldsmith himself at the Barbicon Concert in London.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Im talking about your whole list.

[publicist 4,643]

Are u going to Thaxton me on this? It was a totally usual schedule which, as several composers pointed out during old FSM and Soundtack-Interviews, was a change of pace from the 80's. Three weeks writing the score, 4 or 5 day recording it, save a few days here or there. 

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Just asking, mate.

 

TESB was written in 4 weeks, so time doesn't say everything.

[publicist 4,643]

I don't think that's actually true,both ESB and 'Poltergeist' were supposedly written in just a few weeks but the timespan was probably much larger factoring in pre-talks, conceptioning etc.

 

The main change, as i recall, was that those films were locked early while from the mid-90's onwards they just got unfinished movies that were still edited up to the last minute (Spielberg/Williams projects notwithstanding) and you can feel that in the writing (lots of easy-to-cut sequencer stuff, no odd meters and so on). 

[Melange 446]

1 hour ago, publicist said:

Goldsmith himself at the Barbicon Concert in London.

 

2003?

 

I stumbled across my ticket from that event, earlier today.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Goldsmith didnt do a concert in London in 2003. It was scheduled but his illness preventing him from going. It was retooled as a general film music concert conducted by the now late Kenneth Schermerhorn.

He also had to bow out in 2004, the concert of his own anniversary. Dirk Brossé replaced him.

[Melange 446]

1 hour ago, Stefancos said:

Goldsmith didnt do a concert in London in 2003. It was scheduled but his illness preventing him from going.

 

Well I was there on the night of the 20th of March 2003, watched him conduct and have got my ticket from the night, right here. I can put up a scan if desired. I do remember that 2004 cancellation though, Dirk Brossé replacing him late in the game and I remember being a bit of a dick about it all at the time regarding the change, then choosing to get a refund on my ticket, my only defense being I didn't have a handle on just how ill Jerry was.