Howard Shore Documentary - Use Well The Days

[TownerFan 4,983]

I don't know if it was already mentioned elsewhere, but I found on YouTube this short documentary on Howard Shore during the making of the Return of the King score:

 

 

 

It's directed by Elizabeth Cotnoir (Shore's wife) and it's indeed a lovely portrait of a film composer at work.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Wojo 2,453]

Is that from the EE DVD? If so, I won't bother with the YouTube clips, I'll dust off my DVDs and watch them.

[Jim Ware 525]

There is a longer version of this documentary. I don't know when (or if) it will see the light of day, but it's well worth watching!

[gkgyver 1,645]

That was a lovely afternoon at Angel Orensanz.

[Incanus 5,713]

Is that from the EE DVD? If so, I won't bother with the YouTube clips, I'll dust off my DVDs and watch them.

That documentary is from the Return of the King Limited Edition OST that came with a DVD.

And thanks Maurizio for posting it. I had never seen it before.

[Ollie 1,059]

Thanks for posting. That was nice.

[Wojo 2,453]

Ah. Then I will, ahem, "bother" to download them and watch them in some spare time. Gracias.

[KK 3,307]

I was just watching this again.

 

 

 

It really shows how hands-on Howard Shore was during the recording sessions. Fine tuning the smallest details, especially when it came to the soloists. It made me realize how much of a loss it was that Shore was not at the sessions for DoS. Although I think DoS is a great score (and the stronger of the Hobbit scores), I always thought it was missing something. Some kind of personal, organic touch to it. Now part of that could be blamed on the NZSO (who performed wonderfully still), but I think a large reason is probably Shore wasn't there to shape his own work the way he pictures it. It's a real shame that he won't be back for the last film either.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Incanus 5,713]

I don't remember if this was brought up by Pope or Sizemore in their interviews but does Shore ever supervise the sessions via satellite like PJ did with the LotR scores at some points. I know it would be somewhat impractical because of the time difference but it could be done. Naturally the part KK mentions, the hand-on in situ fine tuning of the performance by the composer has been eliminated pretty much from the equation after AUJ. Conrad Pope has to do that now but I wonder if Shore hears the recordings and comments via computer.

[KK 3,307]

I hope he does. But I have a feeling that's not the case.

It really explains why the sound of DoS is so different (aside from various unique stylings). And yes, Pope is a maestro when it comes to the fine-tuning stuff, but it's not the same as coming from the man who wrote the stuff. Especially with Shore, who is a composer who really likes to play around during the sessions. AUJ feels more wholesome than DoS in that regard (though as I've said before, the latter is the stronger work).

[Jay 37,271]

Am I the only one who doesn't think DOS sounds all that different from AUJ?

[BloodBoal 7,538]

Yes.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Am I the only one who doesn't think DOS sounds all that different from AUJ?

No. I also don't hear a lot of difference.

[KK 3,307]

Clean out those ears gentlemen!

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Are you saying it sounds compositionally different or recording wise?

[Jim Ware 525]

On 8/20/2014 at 11:40 AM, KK. said:

I was just watching this again.

 

 

 

It really shows how hands-on Howard Shore was during the recording sessions. Fine tuning the smallest details, especially when it came to the soloists.

 

I hope that the full version of this documentary (as screened in NY a few years back) is made available at some point.

[Dixon Hill 4,232]

Was that part of the goings-on at the church over in Tuxedo? I really regretted missing that.

[Jim Ware 525]

It was. I unintentionally stole Howard Shore's pen.

[Dixon Hill 4,232]

Sure, sure. Unintentionally. These things happen.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

THIEF! WARE....WE HATES IT....WE HATES IT FOREVER!

[KK 3,307]

Are you saying it sounds compositionally different or recording wise?

Performance wise.

Composition is the same. Interpretation is different.

[SafeUnderHill 205]

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

To be honest I can't really hear any huge difference between the RPO and the NZO.

No one could when the score was released, bit I guess many many months of navel-gazing, and suddenly it sounds radically different.

[KK 3,307]

No, I heard the difference when the score was released. As did many others I believe.

And again, I think its more a question of the conductor's interpretations (Shore/Pope) than the orchestra (LPO/NZSO).

[SafeUnderHill 205]

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Nah, there really isnt much for a conductor to interpret with film scores. The tempo is decided by the film itself after all.

[SafeUnderHill 205]

[Jay 37,271]

Right. Plus Shore did less aleotoric writing this time around because he knew he wouldn't be there, so there is even less material that can differ per interpretation than the previous 4 scores.

[Dixon Hill 4,232]

Nah, there really isnt much for a conductor to interpret with film scores. The tempo is decided by the film itself after all.

That's not really true.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

What's this documentary called?

I think that's the one that was on the DVD that was included in the limited edition of the ROTK OST.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I can't really hear any difference between Shore and Shore/Pope.

Like I never heard a difference between a Goldsmith score orchestrated by Arthur Morton or a Goldsmith score orchestrated by Alexander Courage.

[KK 3,307]

There's a lot a conductor can do in terms of performance. For instance, you can tell by the harsher aleatorics. The whole sound is harsher in general.

On top of that, the NZSO is new to this type of music. I'm just saying it would have been nicer if Shore was behind the podium during that transition.

And again, I'm not saying there's a giant radical difference, but there is a difference, however subtle it may be.

[SafeUnderHill 205]

[Dixon Hill 4,232]

Right. Plus Shore did less aleotoric writing this time around because he knew he wouldn't be there, so there is even less material that can differ per interpretation than the previous 4 scores.

There's still a fair amount of it, and I think it's very noticeable that a different conductor was guiding it.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

The difference is too subtle then for me to be either concerned or interested in, KK.

DOS sounds 100% Shore to these ears.

[SafeUnderHill 205]

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I wonder. Are there still people who think Shore should have conducted DOS?

[KK 3,307]

Right. Plus Shore did less aleotoric writing this time around because he knew he wouldn't be there, so there is even less material that can differ per interpretation than the previous 4 scores.

There's still a fair amount of it, and I think it's very noticeable that a different conductor was guiding it.

Indeed. There's a lot of aleatoruc material in DoS, and it was definitely approached differently from how Shore usually does it.

[SafeUnderHill 205]

[KK 3,307]

The difference is too subtle then for me to be either concerned or interested in, KK.

DOS sounds 100% Shore to these ears.

I wonder. Are there still people who think Shore should have conducted DOS?

Fair enough. But I can discern that difference, and would personally prefer if Shore got his ass down to New Zealand again

[Dixon Hill 4,232]

Right. Plus Shore did less aleotoric writing this time around because he knew he wouldn't be there, so there is even less material that can differ per interpretation than the previous 4 scores.

There's still a fair amount of it, and I think it's very noticeable that a different conductor was guiding it.

Indeed. There's a lot of aleatoruc material in DoS, and it was definitely approached differently from how Shore usually does it.

Yes. And it's not only in the way things were conducted. Looking at certain sections, even the way it's notated is somewhat different. In fact, it's closer to the sort of thing you see in Williams' scores. Which makes me wonder how much of a hand Pope had in it. Maybe they decided to tweak the whole approach to better suit what Pope was used to.

[SafeUnderHill 205]

[KK 3,307]

Right. Plus Shore did less aleotoric writing this time around because he knew he wouldn't be there, so there is even less material that can differ per interpretation than the previous 4 scores.

There's still a fair amount of it, and I think it's very noticeable that a different conductor was guiding it.

Indeed. There's a lot of aleatoruc material in DoS, and it was definitely approached differently from how Shore usually does it.

Yes. And it's not only in the way things were conducted. Looking at certain sections, even the way it's notated is somewhat different. In fact, it's closer to the sort of thing you see in Williams' scores. Which makes me wonder how much of a hand Pope had in it. Maybe they decided to tweak the whole approach to better suit what Pope was used to.

Yes, I agree. I believe Pope played around with how it was notated in the sketches to a system to which he is more familiar with conducting. As you said, more akin to how it is in Williams' score. I think he also relied less on Shore's "Manifesto".

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[SafeUnderHill 205]

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Yep.

BB do you also have the Creating The LOTR Symphony DVD?

[Dixon Hill 4,232]

That came with one of the extended editions, right?

[BloodBoal 7,538]