Expanded scores: How a single new track can change everything

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I just experienced an epiphany listening to Rambo II but with Goldsmith's original End Credits replacing the song.

I've listened to this score hundreds of times, and for me it always ends on Day By Day. Those closing minor chords as Rambo walks back into the Jungle.

The End credits pick up from there, but instead of ending on a low mood it ascends into a statement of victory and freedom. At one point almost sounding like western music. It ends not in defeat and betrayal but in victory and elation.

 

I literally feel that this resolution completely changed the way i will look at this score from now on.

It might also explain why Goldsmith seemed to have been cross when asked about it. It must have hurt, that they chose the song over Jerry's finale and resolution of this score. It still hurt years later.

 

Jerry was a composer who didnt over-intellectualize and always treated the material, which was often questionable, with absolute dedication and always seriously.

Rambo: First Blood Part II is a ridiculous and over the top film that has been parodied many times throughout the years. But it never knew it was ridiculous. Rambo II is a film that believes it has something important to say. Thats it's story is a modern example of the classic great tales. It's hero is the Jesus of the Reagan years. Betrayed by even his own people, sent out to die. But is reborn to seek his righteous vengeance against those who betrayed him.  The Vietnamese and Russians get their just revenge too for killing the woman the hero loved. But Rambo finally confronts his betrayers and spares their lives, and gives them his Commandment. "You will free all those we left behind!"

 

The film doesnt know thats it's over the top and ridiculous, it thinks it's the new Cecil D. DeMille epic. Say what you want about Stallone as a film maker, he is always sincere with his material. Rocky 4 might be 80's camp now, but like Rambo II it thought it was being serious.

Jerry responded to that tone, and delivered a score that it's delicious, heraldic, determined, righteous, tragic and heroic. It's as over the top as the film is, but utterly serious. In Total Recall you can hear the sarcastic tone of "Is it all a dream", in Air Force One the hugely patriotic tone seems too serious not to be self-kidding a bit.

Rambo II's score follows the film and is utterly determined to spread forth it's message.

 

The lack of a single ironic aspect can be most noted in the synths, which are campy, yet totally sincere in the emotions they are trying to convey. Rambo II came just in the right period, when Goldsmith was moving strongly towards it's extreme linear style, but still with the ornamentation of his earlier work.

As a composition it's extremely underrated, probably because of the movie it was attached too. It never attained the credibility of Total Recall as a serious composition.

 

And thats why Goldsmith was hurt when they chose the song over his End Credits...

[publicist 4,643]

Goldsmith worked on the song so i doubt he lost much sleep about the alternate end. He probably even considered it a wiser decision commercially.

[Incanus 5,714]

I don't think I have ever had the revelation of a single new track radically changing my perception of a score.

 

But it has to be said that your observations regarding Rambo II are interesting, how what could be called the "last word" of the score, in this case the end credits, could give an entirely different emotional or subtextual reading on the whole work.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

As far as I know, there was never a film called 'Rambo II'.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,516]

Agreed, but inclusion of the complete score can be an utter revelation. Case in point: "Logan's Run". It went up 200% in my estimation, and now ranks as one of my very fave JG's of the 70s.

I have not heard the track that Steef refers to, but, if this is what was originally intended for the ending of the film (i.e. it fits in stylistically), then I can imagine that it would be a real ear-opener.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,516]

In many territories,

"Rambo:First Blood Part II"

was released, simply, as "Rambo II".

[Incanus 5,714]

4 minutes ago, Shatner's Rug said:

As far as I know, there was never a film called 'Rambo II'.

Do you gain much pleasure in pointing this out multiple times when you well know what film we all are refering to. The second of the Rambo movies. We just don't care to write out the First Blood Part II every time we mention it.

9 minutes ago, Richard said:

Agreed, but inclusion of the complete score can be an utter revelation. Case in point: "Logan's Run". It went up 200% in my estimation, and now ranks as one of my very fave JG's of the 70s.

I have not heard the track that Steef refers to, but, if this is what was originally intended for the ending of the film (i.e. it fits in stylistically), then I can imagine that it would be a real ear-opener.

Yeah complete scores can be quite revelatory and really improve your opinion on the said scores. Something like Goldsmith's The Ghost and the Darkness is a great example where I liked the original album but the complete score and mix really catapulted it among my very favourite 90's Goldsmith scores.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I don't even know if it fits stylistically. But in its effect its identical to the orchestral end title for First Blood, which took it's introspective main theme and made it rousing and victorious, despite the films downer ending.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

1 hour ago, Incanus said:

Do you gain much pleasure in pointing this out multiple times when you well know what film we all are refering to.

 

Multiple times?

[publicist 4,643]

A classic Williams album decision would have been to take the end credits, call it 'Theme from First Blood Part 2", put it before the main title and have the song at the end.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

That's why Johnny got all the Oscars!

[Josh500 1,615]

I should get this expanded edition.

 

The Rambo movies... Never among my favorite franchises, but the JG scores were fantastic! 

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

On 21/08/2016 at 5:40 AM, Stefancos said:

As a composition it's extremely underrated, probably because of the movie it was attached too. It never attained the credibility of Total Recall as a serious composition.

 

Really? I find Rambo: First Blood Part II gets a lot of praise even outside niche film score circles.

 

And I find it a more satisfying and less exhausting listen than Total Recall.

[publicist 4,643]

Maybe but it also is coarse and not especially sophisticated (ducks and runs). 

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Actually I disagree with the last opinion. Yes it is course and as subtle as a brick. But the writing is extremely advanced and sophisticated.

I think on a composition level Goldsmith would be far more appreciated if he didnt do some of his best work on films of extremely questionable quality.

 

Rambo II is an excellent example of that.

 

 

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

I dunno, I reckon Rambo First Blood Part II is the best movie he scored in 1985.

 

Although score-wise, I enjoy Explorers more.

[publicist 4,643]

It's fun but not especially good. That's exactly the reason why so many love, or at least appreciate, it. Goldsmith wrote his really brilliant (not always easy on the ears) action music in the 60's and 70's. 

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Rambo II is a film thats silly and fun and quite possible an example of extremely bad taste. But it wasnt made loike that. It might be one of the few 80's action films that takes itself 100% seriously and doesnt realzie how preposterous it is.

 

It reminds me of Star Trek V. Poorly made and ill-advised. But with genuine sincerity.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

I can't accuse Rambo: First Blood Part II of being poorly made. The on-location scenery, the on-set pyrotechnics, tricky camerawork and good editing make it look like a masterpiece in realism compared to the CGI crap we see in today's action cinema.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I agree. George P. Cosmatos was a technically very skilled director.

Rambo II is a fine example of extremely well made bad cinema.

[publicist 4,643]

Jack Cardiff was DOP. He was one of the greatest cameramen.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Sly spared no expense to bring his bold vision to life!

[crocodile 8,006]

Speaking of one track improvements, I'd say that by adding opening cue from Maleficent to the original album and moving suite to the end would help a great deal. The album as such is fine but it doesn't seem to establish its main theme properly. And those couple of minutes could easily sort that out.

 

Karol

[publicist 4,643]

The new 'Huntsman' album also would profit by omitting 4 or 5 cues that are tragic bores. The 'Maleficent' album is also overlong but would play better with your suggested change.

[Jay 37,352]

7 hours ago, Shatner's Rug said:

As far as I know, there was never a film called 'Rambo II'.

 

Wrong.

 

7 hours ago, Richard said:

In many territories,

"Rambo:First Blood Part II"

was released, simply, as "Rambo II".

 

Right.

 

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

10 minutes ago, Jay said:

 

Wrong.

 

 

Right.

 

 

I suppose that's as legitimate as Destroy All Monsters alternatively titled as Frankenstein and the Monsters From Space.

[karelm 2,913]

11 hours ago, Richard said:

Agreed, but inclusion of the complete score can be an utter revelation. Case in point: "Logan's Run". It went up 200% in my estimation, and now ranks as one of my very fave JG's of the 70s.

 

I agree with you - that is a great score.  I love that scores in that time period used to be like a mixture of styles with a dramatic concept.  For example, Logan's Run the first half is odd synths only.  The second half is lush orchestra only but it fits the narrative as the story unfolds.  Also, Close Encounters is strange/avant garde in the first half as we and the characters are mostly fearing the unknown and then it shifts to adventure then finally awe and wonder.  I find the same with Star Wars but that is more like a steady build but I always found the first act music to be very atmospheric and exotic where the energy builds and builds as the story does.  It is like they were scoring on two levels.  The text and the subtext.  I don't recall the last time I heard this style of scoring in a contemporary film. 

 

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

The Final Frontier is another score which was enriched by its complete score release.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,516]

It wasn't too shabby, beforehand, but, yes, TFF is now, justifiably, considered as one of JG's finest achievements.