Listening to Williams' concert works throughout the decades

[Thor 7,493]

I wanted to say '...in chronological order', but I knew that would leave me open to all kinds of jokes.

 

Anyway, I recently put all my Williams concert works in an iTunes playlist (from the earliest to the latest), clocking in at a 100 tracks and a running time of almost precisely 10 hours. What a fascinating journey to hear his development also as a concert composer throughout the years. 

 

The only titles missing from my list are the piano sonata, the wind quintet, the symphony and "A Toast!" -- none of which are available in any format whatsoever.

 

Anyone tried the same?

 

[Faleel 5,346]

@Pieter_Boelen did this, but he seperated off stuff like the NBC theme and Olympic stuff as Media Concert Arrangements.

[Thor 7,493]

12 minutes ago, Fennel Ka said:

@Pieter_Boelen did this, but he seperated off stuff like the NBC theme and Olympic stuff as Media Concert Arrangements.

 

I didn't include the NBC theme either, but I did include the Olympic themes. OK, "The Olympic Spirit" is basically a TV theme, but the three others are proper event music, which IMO falls under the category of concert works.

[Bespin 8,480]

Interesting, that's my kind of thing!

Creating the "Discography as a Composer - Concert works" page on my website, allowed me to structure the available recordings... and so, periodically I dig to listen to something I'm not familiar with.

 

John Williams' repertoire is a treasure of infinite discoveries!

http://www.goplanete.com/johnwilliams/music/composer/concert.htm

 

 

In a more concise way, I've created this playlist on Spotify, a kind of best-of if I can say:

 

John Williams - Concert works

 

 

[Thor 7,493]

Although I have more than one recording of certain works, I've chosen only my preferred recording in the playlist. I don't want to play several recordings of the violin or tuba concerto in a row, for example. For me, this is about the journey through all the works, not covering everything in terms of discography.

[crumbs 14,306]

I only get 30 second snippets of the above Spotify playlist, but WTF!

 

Track 3 (Concerto for Tuba and Orchestra) is Finn's Theme, clear as day!

[Bespin 8,480]

31 minutes ago, Thor said:

Although I have more than one recording of certain works, I've chosen only my preferred recording in the playlist. I don't want to play several recordings of the violin or tuba concerto in a row, for example. For me, this is about the journey through all the works, not covering everything in terms of discography.

 

I love the "Rarities" album in your playlist. You don't have all the BPO albums?

[Thor 7,493]

32 minutes ago, Bespin said:

 

I love the "Rarities" album in your playlist. Some tracks are just from BPO albums, you don't have them all?

 

Yeah, the Rarities album has 81 tracks of 'goodies'.

 

No, I do not have all the BPO albums. I'm primarily a completist of his compositions, not his 'performer' stuff. But I aim to get to that eventually.

 

By the way, a discovery (sort of) that I'm making with this walkthrough is that there's a definite line between the works before and after the violin concerto. All the works before have this crazy form of jazz dissonance, while the violin concerto is really the first time he tries his hand on a more contemporary, classical form of composition.

[Bespin 8,480]

5 minutes ago, Thor said:

 

Yeah, the Rarities album has 81 tracks of 'goodies'.

 

No, I do not have all the BPO albums. I'm primarily a completist of his compositions, not his 'performer' stuff. But I aim to get to that eventually.

 

By the way, a discovery (sort of) that I'm making with this walkthrough is that there's a definite line between the works before and after the violin concerto. All the works before has this crazy form of jazz dissonance, while the violin concerto is really the first time he tries his hand on a more contemporary, classical form of composition.

 

Well, do like me... start with the BPO albums containing JW's compositions :-)

 

Yes, there's a JW before his first wife died, and a JW after.  It's perfectly understandable.

[Thor 7,493]

2 minutes ago, Bespin said:

 

Well, do like me... starts with the BPO albums containing JW's compositions :-)

 

Oh, I've heard ALL of them, and I have all of Williams' original compositions (that are not available elsewhere). I just haven't gotten around to acquiring them in physical format yet.

 

Quote

Yes, there's a JW before his first wife died, and a JW after.  It's perfectly understandable.

 

That's part of it, of course, but it also has to do with where he is in his life as a composer at that point -- branching out as a film composer with more classically oriented compositions, and a more "adult" sound that is less reliant on his jazz influences.

[Bespin 8,480]

We certainly can argue a lot of time on the causes, but the fact is 1974/75 is a benchmark in his artistic process. In musical term, I would go towards and say it's the beginning of his artistic matury period.

[Thor 7,493]

11 minutes ago, Bespin said:

We certainly can argue a lot of time on the causes, but the fact is 1974/75 is a benchmark in his artistic process. In musical term, I will towards to say it's the beginning of his maturity period.

 

I would personally draw the line at 1970 or thereabouts, but there's no denying that there are some great exampes of extremely sophisticated, mature writing in the 60s as well (just listen to something like NONE BUT THE BRAVE, for example).

 

At the moment, my primary interest in all things Williams is everything pre-JAWS. While for most of the people here, it's the other way around. But going through his concert works in chronological order as I'm currently doing, lets you discover some of these permutations and changes more clearly.

[Bespin 8,480]

Did someone ever asked JW what he consider to be the best thing he has written in his life?  You take the composition year of the work he answer. That's the period of artistic maturity.

[Thor 7,493]

Just now, Bespin said:

Did someone ever asked JW what he consider to be the best thing he has written in his life?  Then you take the year of the work he answer. That's the period of artistic maturity.

 

He tends to mention CLOSE ENCOUNTERS these days. But just a few years ago, he often mentioned JANE EYRE, which came out in 1970.

[Bespin 8,480]

47 minutes ago, Thor said:

 

He tends to mention CLOSE ENCOUNTERS these days. But just a few years ago, he often mentioned JANE EYRE, which came out in 1970.

 

Close Encounters seems a proper answer. I'm sure JW did not wait the 2000s to say that. I would love to read or see some old interviews from the 80s.

 

But I really stick to 1974 for the beginning of his artistic maturity period. 1974 seems a good compromise between 1970 and 1977, no?  And like I wrote previously, the death of his first wife in march 1974 is a cornerstone. A tragic one of course.

 

Before the artistic maturity period, it's the inventiveness, the imagination of a young musician.  A profuse period with great flights, more and more independance, but that's not yet the maturity.

[Tom 4,651]

42 minutes ago, Bespin said:

Did someone ever asked JW what he consider to be the best thing he has written in his life?  You take the composition year of the work he answer. That's the period of artistic maturity.

He has also mentioned the second movement of his violin concerto as among his best. 

 

Of Star Wars themes, he has said Yoda's is his favorite (though that was pre-Rey). 

[Thor 7,493]

48 minutes ago, Bespin said:

Before the artistic maturity period, it's the inventiveness, the imagination of a young musician.  A profuse period with great flights, more and more independance, but that's not yet the maturity.

 

Agree to disagree. In 1974, he was 42 years old. I think he reached his musical 'maturity' level some years before that.

[Bespin 8,480]

@Thor I know you enough to know that we will never agree on anything regarding JW.

[Thor 7,493]

I think we agree on a lot of stuff in regards to JW, Bespin. But I've studied his early works to such a detail that I feel have a "feeling" of when he matured. If others disagree, that's fine by me.

[Bespin 8,480]

It's perfectly normal for a composer to get into his artistic maturity after 20-30 years of writting. Of course, some starts at 6 and some in their 20s!

 

For example, experts seems to agreed on the fact that Beethoven reached his artistic matury in his early 40s too.

[Thor 7,493]

Oh, I agree. I just happen to think he reached this level some 5-6 years earlier than you.

 

On to "Celebrate Discovery" now. God, this is my favourite fanfare of Williams EVER!

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

Williams was a "mature" composer by around 1970.  The first extended appearances of something beyond that, of a masterful composer with his own very distinct perspective, started happening later in that decade.  That phased reached its own maturity, I believe, in the 2000s.

[Bespin 8,480]

In 1970, JW was composing for only 19 years. Sorry, that's not maturity.

 

It's independance, not maturity.

 

[Thor 7,493]

Timeframe is irrelevant. You have to listen to the actual music.

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

I obviously have different definitions of these words, but I just wanted to make sure you would suck the fun out of the conversation as I expected you would.  And with that, I'll leave.

 

Enjoy, musicologists of JWFan.

[Bespin 8,480]

@Thor Nice jump to hyperspace  

[Naïve Old Fart 9,515]

Listening to his "classical" (sic) works, it seems to me that he definitely does not keep pace with his film scores, stylistically. I'm not talking about commissions (THE MISSION THEME is about as much a concert work, as Canada, is the USA).

No. I mean his more "free-form" works. They seem to be the anthiesis of his film work. Whether that is purposeful, is a subject for debate.

I like his non-film work, but I do wonder: what is his true musical voice? Personal classical pieces, or mega-selling SF soundtracks? Maybe both. Maybe neither. How much has he composed that has never been heard, let alone recorded?

[Thor 7,493]

18 minutes ago, TheWhiteRider said:

I obviously have different definitions of these words, but I just wanted to make sure you would suck the fun out of the conversation as I expected you would.  And with that, I'll leave.

 

Enjoy, musicologists of JWFan.

 

What?!?

 

Right now, I'm drunk and happy and have no idea what you're talking about. Are you offended that I listened to John Williams' concert works in chronological order? If so, I'm terribly sorry.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

You are listening to Williams' complete set of concert works, and in chronological order, Thor?

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

14 minutes ago, Thor said:

 

What?!?

 

Right now, I'm drunk and happy and have no idea what you're talking about. Are you offended that I listened to John Williams' concert works in chronological order? If so, I'm terribly sorry.

 

I was responding to Bespin's dogmatic dismissal.  Your post ninja'd mine.

[Thor 7,493]

13 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

You are listening to Williams' complete set of concert works, and in chronological order, Thor?

 

Ha! I was waiting for that. Yes, indeed I am.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Finally a sense of humour!

[Naïve Old Fart 9,515]

11 hours ago, Bespin said:

In 1970, JW was composing for only 19 years. Sorry, that's not maturity.

 

It's independance, not maturity.

 

 

I hear what you're saying, Bes, but when Mozart was 19, he was composing phenomenal stuff.

In 1965, a young lad from Liverpool, had been writing for about 7 years, yet he came up with...YESTERDAY.

I would say that JW entered maturity with the one-two of JANE EYRE, and IMAGES. He then built on that.

[Bespin 8,480]

Honestly, I think there are no good answer. Artistic maturity is a very subjective thing.

 

I think we agree that it happened somewhat between 1970 and 1974.

 

But I still like the idea to pick the beginning of the writing of the Violin Concerto in 1974, instead of a movie score. For me that's romantic. Tragic and romantic, a hard blow of fate.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,515]

So, Bes...when did it peak..?

[Bespin 8,480]

I would never venture on this!

[Naïve Old Fart 9,515]

You'll make a formidable duke! 

[Pieter Boelen 740]

On 9-9-2016 at 4:32 PM, Fennel Ka said:

@Pieter_Boelen did this, but he seperated off stuff like the NBC theme and Olympic stuff as Media Concert Arrangements.

I split it in three: Concert, Media and Film.

They'd be easily merged but by themselves they're already epically long.

Also epically amazing!

 

I'm curious about the specifics of @Thor's playlist. He's by far a bigger expert of everything Williams than I'll ever be, so I wonder if there's anything I missed out on.

[Thor 7,493]

9 hours ago, Pieter_Boelen said:

I'm curious about the specifics of @Thor's playlist. He's by far a bigger expert of everything Williams than I'll ever be, so I wonder if there's anything I missed out on.

 

I'm guessing I have a few pieces you've never heard (due to their rarity), but you don't have to have everything to get a sense of evolution. Some interesting things appear when you play it like this, like the aforementioned pre-violin concerto period that operates in more or less the same stylistic landscape, then the more extrovert 80s with all the fanfares that sound like they would have been perfect in an adventure film, the massive cello period that he entered in the 90s and into the 2000s, the more, almost atonal writing in the last few years etc. Quite fascinating.

 

I've had a similar chronological walkthrough with his film music many times, but I hadn't really done it with his concert works before.

[Bryant Burnette 654]

I enjoy listening to music in chronological order when possible.  It's not the only way to do it, obviously, and I'm not all OCD about it; but listening that way almost always reveals interesting things about the artist's process.  I've been very slowly listening to all of Prince's music since his death, for example, and going year by year gives me a good idea of the progression of his career, the vast majority of which I was unfamiliar with.

 

No doubt in my mind that sitting down with Williams's concert works in the same way would yield similar results.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,515]

Are you up to THE BLACK ALBUM, yet? 

2 NIGS UNITED FOR WEST COMPTON is brilliant!

[Pieter Boelen 740]

13 hours ago, Thor said:

 

I'm guessing I have a few pieces you've never heard (due to their rarity), but you don't have to have everything to get a sense of evolution.

I suppose not. But I do like completism in my compilation as much as possible.

 

Would you mind posting all the various tracks you've got in there?
If you feel more comfortable with it, you're welcome to leave out the rare tracks that I am likely not to have.

No need to tantalize me with awesome stuff that isn't quite available after all.

[Bespin 8,480]

For my part, mixing tracks from different sources (CD, TV, Radio, Youtube, Streaming, Bootlegs, etc) is against my religion.

[Bryant Burnette 654]

8 hours ago, Richard said:

Are you up to THE BLACK ALBUM, yet? 

2 NIGS UNITED FOR WEST COMPTON is brilliant!

 

I liked that; very Madhouse-y.

 

But I loved "Bob George," even though I feel like I probably shouldn't.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,515]

Like what you like, and fuck everyone else.

[Wojo 2,453]

Are there enough rubbers for that? 

[Thor 7,493]

13 hours ago, Pieter_Boelen said:

I suppose not. But I do like completism in my compilation as much as possible.

 

Would you mind posting all the various tracks you've got in there?
If you feel more comfortable with it, you're welcome to leave out the rare tracks that I am likely not to have.

No need to tantalize me with awesome stuff that isn't quite available after all.

 

I think the easiest way is to look at this site's overview of the concert works, but then omit the piano sonata, wind quintet, symphony no. 1 and "A Toast!", and then you have my playlist (except that mine begins at the beginning, while this list begins with the most recent).

 

 

[TownerFan 4,983]

On ‎11‎/‎09‎/‎2016 at 11:10 AM, Thor said:

 

I'm guessing I have a few pieces you've never heard (due to their rarity), but you don't have to have everything to get a sense of evolution. Some interesting things appear when you play it like this, like the aforementioned pre-violin concerto period that operates in more or less the same stylistic landscape, then the more extrovert 80s with all the fanfares that sound like they would have been perfect in an adventure film, the massive cello period that he entered in the 90s and into the 2000s, the more, almost atonal writing in the last few years etc. Quite fascinating.

 

There's certainly evolution and progress in the writing, as we're talking of 40+ years, which is a lot for any artist. It's task for musicologists to properly analyze and study Williams' overall artistic arc and find the threads and the evolution in his path. It's still unexplored territory for the most part. Emilio Audissino's book lays a very good groundwork in this sense, even though mostly in a historical perspective. There's still a lot of work to do on a pure musicological level and I hope someone is already at work.

 

I think we can say that concert music has always been for Williams - as he said many times - a sort of "distraction" from film commitments and probably a good way to keep himself interested, engaged and exercised, especially in some musical forms like the concerti for soloists. There's certainly maturation over the course of the years, but I guess it's a natural evolution as an artist who likely feels constantly in motion.

[Pieter Boelen 740]

5 hours ago, Thor said:

 

I think the easiest way is to look at this site's overview of the concert works, but then omit the piano sonata, wind quintet, symphony no. 1 and "A Toast!", and then you have my playlist (except that mine begins at the beginning, while this list begins with the most recent).

 

 

I think that is the list I already used in the past. My main interest was in what records you'd recommend.

 

Also for his "Media" and "Film Rerecordings".

[Thor 7,493]

1 hour ago, Pieter_Boelen said:

I think that is the list I already used in the past. My main interest was in what records you'd recommend.

 

Oh, well my personal favourite of his fanfares is "Celebrate Discovery", and my favourite concert work is "Five Sacred Trees", closely followed by the "Elegy for Cello and Orchestra".