Michael Giacchino's Rogue One: A Star Wars Story (2016) - 2022 Expanded Edition now available

[crocodile 7,984]

7 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

Film isnt really the format for such an expression as you describe, not on a frequent basis anyway. It depends on a certain composer showing a certain feel for the material and a certain film maker being willing and able to allow that sort of freedom. And even with LOTR there were restrictions and changes forced upon Shore's work anyway.

 

Such a thing is rare, great when it happens, but not actually required when it comes to making a good film or providing it with a good score. LOTR was never going to be a template to a new way of scoring films.

Well, I was hoping it would. Silly me.

 

Karol

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Well you were very young. Idealistic.

[Arpy 4,145]

7 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

Howard Shore is partly responsble for essentially giving away part of his artistic imput on The Hobbit when he allowed Pope to orchestrate and conduct in Wellington ehile he was on the other side of the world.

I might go as far as to say Shore himself was wholly responsible. I think he wasn't feeling it this time around, or had to bow to PJ's will.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Well we don't actually know the exact circumstances. But yeah after a crummy time on AUJ Shore probably felt he didnt wanna go through another 2 years of that. So a compromise was found that enabled him to serve the film in a way that was far easier on him, but came at a cost.

[Nick1Ø66 4,688]

21 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

Howard Shore is partly responsble for essentially giving away part of his artistic imput on The Hobbit when he allowed Pope to orchestrate and conduct in Wellington while he was on the other side of the world.

Well, I'm not sure "allowed" is the right word. We really don't know the circumstances of what went down with that whole fiasco. Shore was in a tough spot...what was he supposed to do, walk away from what is the culmination of his most important life's work? Jackson certainly was calling the shots. For all we know Jackson didn't want Shore in Wellington, and preferred to work with Pope. One thing I don't buy is that Shore wasn't passionate and committed to this project, and I don't but that he let control of it go willingly.

 

One day I'd really love to get the full story of what actually went on here (a story I'm convinced began with King Kong).

[Arpy 4,145]

Yeah I always had suspicions that the King Kong ordeal was to blame. That, or Shore simply didn't want to deal with the stress of moving to NZ...

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Well, like you said, we don't know what the situation was so it's hard to judge. Filmscore fans will generally side with Shore almost as a reflex. But we just dont know. And I doubt we will ever. It's not really in the interest of anyone involved to explain what happened.

[Arpy 4,145]

You're right, I'm not sure the details of it will ever be disclosed.

[Will 2,215]

Okay, so @Jilal shared some of his favorite Desplat action cues with me ... and now I'm not as sure as I used to be that Giacchino is better at action. Obviously I'm not really familiar enough with either composer to really make an educated determination, though. 

 

Anyway, another important part of SW, aside from action, is the big epic scenes where a location is shown off in all its glory. Has Desplat ever written anything as filled with awe as "As the Jurassic World Turns" or "Night on the Yorktown" or "Pin-Ultimate Experience"?

 

Even if he hasn't, I suppose that wouldn't mean he's unable to write music like that...

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Of course he can write music like that. It's hardly difficult.

[Will 2,215]

9 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

Of course he can write music like that. It's hardly difficult.

 

*Stefan crushes Giacchino's body of work in his fist*

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Since the early 2000's, my friend!

[publicist 4,643]

3 hours ago, Will said:

Anyway, another important part of SW, aside from action, is the big epic scenes where a location is shown off in all its glory. Has Desplat ever written anything as filled with awe as "As the Jurassic World Turns" or "Night on the Yorktown" or "Pin-Ultimate Experience"?

 

Where in SW has music like this ever played a role? If so, it was more leaned towards Rózsa/Korngold.

 

Be that as it may:

 

[crocodile 7,984]

6 hours ago, Marian Schedenig said:

 

As I said: I believe most people simply didn't notice the score. Hence little demand to have something similar for something like it in more films.

It is the best example I can think of where a modern film sound mix blends so well with a score mix. And that is also a testament to Davis' skill as an orchestrator. He knows exactly what will work well with sound design. You can hear each track clearly and yet they completely blend together. But the unfortunate side effect is that few people will notice it. Especially in the 1999 film where score is so tightly attached to picture. Not a wasted note. So it might be the best "invisible" score ever. I was completely in awe when I heard it live.

 

Karol

[Matt C 452]

I messaged Dan Goldwasser on the ScoringSessions FB page about where the score will be recorded, and he said that the scoring location for Rogue One isn't finalized yet.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Abbey Road or Air Lyndhurst?

[rpvee 805]

19 hours ago, Will said:

 

Actually, just realized that we can't even be 100% sure Williams is safe, since he wrote and recorded with orchestra two options for TFA teaser 2 and they were both rejected.

 

How do we know this?

[Jay 37,287]

I'm sure it will be recorded in LA, no idea which studio though. 

[Dixon Hill 4,232]

It's not as though there are many options anymore, sadly.  Probably Sony.

[Matt C 452]

Giacchino recorded Jupiter Ascending, The Book of Henry and Doctor Strange in London. 50/50 chance it will be recorded there or Los Angeles.

 

I think Kathleen Kennedy made an exception for Williams, due to his age and health.

[Jim Ware 526]

Rogue One is a UK production.  I would expect it to record in the UK.

[Jay 37,287]

With the LSO? 

[Will 2,215]

15 hours ago, publicist said:

 

Where in SW has music like this ever played a role? If so, it was more leaned towards Rózsa/Korngold.

 

 

I thought it was the Desplat camp that was all excited about having a new style of SW music. 

 

I think they'd be the first to say that just because something hasn't been done yet in SW doesn't mean it shouldn't be done. 

 

There are myriad shots in most SW movies that could work well with Giacchino's "Night on the Yorktown" or "As the Jurassic World Turns" style (although Rogue One may not have as many given its supposedly darker and more gritty tone. We'll see). 

 

Although, as you attempted to illustrate with your example, perhaps Desplat could do this just as well. 

[gkgyver 1,645]

With Harry Potter, Desplat certainly proved he is better at doing big orchestral and melodic pieces in the Williams vein than Giacchino.

[Will 2,215]

6 hours ago, rpvee said:

 

How do we know this?

 

A source who works at the music prep service working on TFA said this on Facebook shortly before the film's release:

 

Quote

John only wrote the first teaser.....and two options for the second - however, Disney went ahead and had a music house compile something for the second without really consulting him. I'm sure, in his beautifully diplomatic way, he told them to just continue that way and leave him to work on the score. Other than the first teaser, Johns only "involvement" is the use of an actual cue from the film opening one of the TV spots (a beautiful flute solo in G minor)

 

And we know that not only did Williams write music for the second teaser, he recorded it with the LA studio orchestra (http://members.afm.org/im/john-williams):

 

Quote

Williams tackled earlier recordings for both trailers.

 

Quote

Trumpet player Jon Lewis is a member of the freelance orchestra, and he says the experience is off to an incredible start with the recording of the two trailers.

 

Quote

“The two trailer sessions were each three hours long, and all of us take great pride in our speed of recording and our ability to adjust and make changes to improve the final product as quickly as possible.”

 

Speaking of the second teaser music (the final, non-Williams music composed/edited by Felix Erksine and Orphan Music):

 

I was just reading through an old thread and apparently a clean version of much of the second teaser's final music can be found here:

 

 

That sounds a little different than what was in the final version of the teaser (which can be found at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ngElkyQ6Rhs). Maybe it is part of an alternate. Maybe the final version contained an insert. I dunno. 

 

Also, notably, the big "epic" drums are missing from this version. Perhaps this version was the original orchestral recording and then they added "sweeteners" later in editing. 

 

Anyway, listening to the music without sound effects lays bare just how simply orchestrated it sounds by itself. It's hard to believe we ever thought this was Williams. I suppose the "simplicity" serves the trailer well, and indeed, it works very well in context. I'm a big fan of it. 

 

What I believe is another, unused version can actually be found here, repurposed for this TV spot:

 

 

Speaking of unused trailer music, that red carpet video also includes an alternate by Confidential Music and Frederick Lloyd for the third (threatrical) trailer (which Williams did not even write anything for):

 

 

I know this isn't JW but it's still cool. 

 

Anyway, I hope JW's two options for the second teaser leak someday! I'm sure they're very good -- just not "trailer-y" enough.

1 hour ago, gkgyver said:

With Harry Potter, Desplat certainly proved he is better at doing big orchestral and melodic pieces in the Williams vein than Giacchino.

 

You have any Potter examples? 

[publicist 4,643]

5 hours ago, Will said:

I thought it was the Desplat camp that was all excited about having a new style of SW music. 

 

I think they'd be the first to say that just because something hasn't been done yet in SW doesn't mean it shouldn't be done. 

 

There are myriad shots in most SW movies that could work well with Giacchino's "Night on the Yorktown" or "As the Jurassic World Turns" style (although Rogue One may not have as many given its supposedly darker and more gritty tone. We'll see). 

 

Maybe i'm just more picky what 'new' in this context should constitute. If they want to make it more 'regular', yes, if they want a sound closer to JW's original intentions (operatic, classical influences ranging from romantic to mid 20th century modernist) cues like this wouldn't be high on the list. Following the model, updating it would work somewhat in Williams' AI mode (a bit more Reich, Adams or something like that in the mix). 

 

[Pieter Boelen 740]

On 25-9-2016 at 4:25 AM, Will said:

Okay, so @Jilal shared some of his favorite Desplat action cues with me ... and now I'm not as sure as I used to be that Giacchino is better at action. Obviously I'm not really familiar enough with either composer to really make an educated determination, though. 

Which tracks are those? Just being curious here, since I've never quite been very excited about Desplat myself and I feel like I'm not being quite fair to him.

 

 

[King Mark 3,625]

18 hours ago, Will said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I know this isn't JW but it's still cool. 

 

 

I admit I like that one too

[Matt C 452]

On 9/25/2016 at 4:28 PM, Jay said:

With the LSO? 

 

Probably the session musicians that worked on Giacchino's previous UK recordings.

 

It would be cool if Giacchino was able to secure the LSO for Rogue One.

[Jay 37,287]

Wasn't Desplat going to record Rogue One with the LSO?

[crumbs 14,300]

Almost certainly. I wonder if the orchestra was booked and Disney have to honour that agreement with Giac?

[Jay 37,287]

If it was booked, it was booked for September, but then the massive reshoots changed everything.  Who knows if they're even free anymore

[TownerFan 4,983]

The LSO was originally booked for TFA as well, but then plans were changed.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Really? I didnt know they were actually booked.

[Giftheck 916]

6 minutes ago, TownerFan said:

The LSO was originally booked for TFA as well, but then plans were changed.

 

That wasn't due to composers changing just three months before release but John Williams having a lot more time to record the score that wouldn't have been feasible if he stuck with the LSO.

[aviazn 273]

On 9/26/2016 at 9:42 AM, Will said:

What I believe is another, unused version can actually be found here, repurposed for this TV spot:

 

 

IIRC, I think a lot of us (me included) thought that version actually sounds like something JW would have written—in particular, the  faster tempo of the build into Yoda and the X-Wing—as if that were the original and Erskine adapted it for the version used in the second trailer. Do we have any better idea now if that was indeed the case?

[crumbs 14,300]

5 hours ago, TownerFan said:

The LSO was originally booked for TFA as well, but then plans were changed.

 

That seems strange -- didn't Williams himself only agree to do the score for Abrams on the proviso he could record in LA?

[Jay 37,287]

JW hasn't flown over the ocean since 2005.  I don't think he was ever planning on flying to London to conduct the LSO.

 

Now, whether or not he considered staying in LA while a different conductor conducted the LSO, I have no idea.

[Giftheck 916]

4 minutes ago, crumbs said:

 

That seems strange -- didn't Williams himself only agree to do the score for Abrams on the proviso he could record in LA?

 

I seem to recall a quote where Williams said he would have used the LSO were it not for the recording schedule. My guess is that if he had gotten the LSO, he would have either suggested they fly out to the US, or that somebody else go to London to conduct the score.

[crumbs 14,300]

7 minutes ago, Jay said:

JW hasn't flown over the ocean since 2005.  I don't think he was ever planning on flying to London to conduct the LSO.

 

Now, whether or not he considered staying in LA while a different conductor conducted the LSO, I have no idea.

 

It's possible. There's really only a few possibilities if the LSO were booked for TFA at some point.

 

Either Williams briefly entertained the possibility of, say, William Ross conducting the LSO in London while he observed from LA, or the LSO were going to be flown to LA to perform the score but, when it became a prolonged 4-5 month recording process, they hired a freelance orchestra instead (which Williams has been nothing but effusive about, so he must have been supportive of the decision).

 

It also might explain why Williams told members of the LSO that the prolonged recording process was the reason he couldn't do the score with them, despite the slightly conflicting story that he told Abrams he would only score the film if he could stay in LA.

[Will 2,215]

On 9/26/2016 at 1:02 PM, Pieter_Boelen said:

Which tracks are those? Just being curious here, since I've never quite been very excited about Desplat myself and I feel like I'm not being quite fair to him.

 

 

 

 

 

On 9/27/2016 at 7:57 AM, aviazn said:

IIRC, I think a lot of us (me included) thought that version actually sounds like something JW would have written—in particular, the  faster tempo of the build into Yoda and the X-Wing—as if that were the original and Erskine adapted it for the version used in the second trailer. Do we have any better idea now if that was indeed the case?

 

Interesting. I'd never heard anyone suggest that this was JW. I'd thought that was possible initially -- and it was probably my favorite musical moment in TFA marketing -- but over time I kind of discounted that possibility, to some extent. 

 

Your suggestion that the second teaser final music could have been based on JW's cue but not actually JW's cue throws everything I thought I knew about that teaser music up in the air, really. I'd been starting to think that none of the music in the second teaser was JW (and as I said the possibility that it was an adaptation of his cue never crossed my mind) and that none of the music in that above TV spot (other than of course Jedi Steps) was him either -- I figured it was an alternate for teaser 2 by the music house who I thought had composed the final teaser 2 music. 

 

Now that I think about it, this TV spot music actually sounds very much like the Attack of the Clones original finale bit that was replaced by the Imperial March insert:

 

 

I'm not too musically knowledgeable so I can't do a more detailed comparison but at the beginning and end of the replaced AOTC bit (it ends right before Across the Stars, as you may know) we have some very similar figures to the ones in that TV spot. The "corresponding" figure to that in the TV spot that's in the actual second teaser always seemed a little too "vanilla" to be JW, almost like a simplified version of the one in that TV spot. Big smashing chords that go up-up-up-up (the final second teaser) don't remind me of JW so much as the more interesting figure in the TV spot. 

 

And it seems to me that some of the "background" stuff in the TV spot (i.e. accompanying the main melody) sounds quite similar to some of the background stuff at the beginning of the AOTC bit.

 

Although this isn't necessarily evidence that it's JW. Who knows, the AOTC bit could have been a temp track that the music house was asked to emulate.

 

At some point this weekend I think I'll start a new thread for discussion of the places in TFA marketing where I'm still not sure whether the music was JW. We can discuss in more detail then. This uncertainty has really been bothering me. I keep wanting to just be sure who wrote what but I have to consider the possibility that we'll never know.

 

If none of JW's second teaser music was used or adapted in any way for any of TFA's marketing, then I almost wonder whether we petition to get the music house that did the maybe-it's-JW stuff to take over SW after JW stops. 

[Alessoundtrack 23]

http://filmmusicreporter.com/2016/10/04/walt-disney-records-to-release-rogue-one-a-star-wars-story-soundtrack/

[Disco Stu 15,495]

 

[Jay 37,287]

Yep you can already pre-order it

 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01LY2IX2D/

 

Yet you still can't pre-order Doctor Strange.... Which comes out a month earlier on the same label (presumably)

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

Great, another mediocre/shitty Giacchino score. Desplat's might have been interesting.

[Cerebral Cortex 3,357]

3 hours ago, Selina Kyle said:

Great, another mediocre/shitty Giacchino score. Desplat's might have been interesting.

 

You've heard the score already? 

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

It's hardly necessary. We have been following Gia's career for some 17 years now....

[Pieter Boelen 740]

3 hours ago, Selina Kyle said:

Great, another mediocre/shitty Giacchino score. Desplat's might have been interesting.

Depending on personal preference, those two names could probably be reversed.

 

Ah, "personal preference" playing an important role in music and art, eh? What is the world coming to?!?

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

The only Giacchino scores I like are The Lost World: Jurassic Park video game and Space Mountain at Disneyland, which has been replaced with Williams music.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Those are his best indeed.