Michael Giacchino's Rogue One: A Star Wars Story (2016) - 2022 Expanded Edition now available

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Exactly 

[artguy360 1,843]

2 hours ago, BTR1701 said:

 

Well, Williams sure did a strange job of using a supposedly Rebel motif to emphasize the Imperial presence on screen. All throughout the film, it's used to accentuate the Empire, not the Rebels. Why is it playing triumphantly as the Falcon is captured by the Death Star? Who's winning there? Not the Falcon-- which isn't even a Rebel ship at that point, nor are its occupants part of the Rebellion. Even during the TIE fighter attack after the Falcon escapes the Death Star, the fanfare plays every time we see the TIEs strafing the Falcon, not when the Falcon fires back and destroys them. And why would Williams use a Rebel motif over a scene of Vader heading off into space in his TIE at the end?

 

I'm not denying what Williams said in the liner notes. I'm just saying it doesn't track with how the theme was actually used in the film.

 

No, it comes from my observation of the actual film and the music's placement in it.

You should watch the movie again and chart all uses of the Rebel Fanfare. I think it will become obvious to you that in ANH it is basically an adventure theme used to score BIG moments and moments when our heroes are in peril, among other uses.

 

You may be the only person to ever think that the Rebel Fanfare was originally the Imperial theme, and then to turn that into fact in your mind...Also do you not hear the 2 other short motifs for the bad guys? JW already had them covered. 

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

The first thing is that our "beloved" Moderator seems to have been swayed by this...theory!

 

 

20 hours ago, Jay said:

 

Woah. 

 

 

Heinous!

[King Mark 3,625]

11 minutes ago, artguy360 said:

 

 

You may be the only person to ever think that the Rebel Fanfare was originally the Imperial theme, and then to turn that into fact in your mind...Also do you not hear the 2 other short motifs for the bad guys? JW already had them covered. 

 

For years I thought the Rebel Fanfare was the Empire theme

On 2016-12-30 at 6:13 PM, BTR1701 said:

 

Yes, it's become the Rebel Fanfare, but it seems obvious that Williams originally intended it to be an Imperial theme in the first film.

 

It's first appearance in the score isn't when the Tantive IV races across the screen, but rather when the Star Destroyer following it appears. Likewise, during the subsequent gun battle, it heralds the entrance of the stormtroopers onto the Rebel ship.

 

When the Falcon gets caught in the Death Star's tractor beam, Williams has that fanfare playing triumphantly as they are drawn into the hangar bay, and even at the very end, after Luke destroys the Death Star and we see the remaining Rebel ships heading back to base, the film cuts to Vader stabilizing his TIE fighter and flying off into space accompanied by a light, dancing version of that fanfare in the flutes.

 

It seems clear to me that when Williams wrote the score to ANH, that fanfare was an Imperial motif and it's strange how in later films it did a 180 and became the herald of the Rebellion.

 

 

Finally someone who thinks exactly like I did

[steb74 53]

I'm kind of astonished that it could ever be mistaken as a representation of the Imperials.

I think a leitmotif is at its strongest when it represents an idea rather than anchored directly to a character.

Every instance of the RF in SW only serves to push the story forward by illustrating how the characters' circumstances are changing.

 

A wonderful instance is after the binary sunset when Luke returns to find R2 missing, just before his discovery we're treated to a little cheeky version by the flutes almost whistling to him 'be careful what you wish for', it goes by in a second but it's there to tell us that Luke's story will change from this point on. That's the point Luke inherits that piece of musical material as part of his own trajectory.

 

[King Mark 3,625]

Anyways somewhere in the archives of this MB, I've said many time I thought it was the Empire theme for ANH

 

It still is, in my mind

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

Oh it's the bloody "Nimbus 2000 theme = Slytherin theme" all over again

[artguy360 1,843]

16 minutes ago, Docteur Qui said:

Oh it's the bloody "Nimbus 2000 theme = Slytherin theme" all over again

Please don't tell me this was ever a real thing. How?

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

Can't remember who it was but someone here was convinced that the N2000 theme was a theme for Slytherin because its first appearance was in the snake scene in Philosopher's Stone, then later when Malfoy steals the Remembrall, the Quidditch match against Slytherin etc. And then in COS it heavily features in the comic scenes with Crabbe + Goyle + Polyjuice Potion. I don't think many people were convinced.

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

I'll put it like this: if the Rebel Fanfare was intended as Imperial motif, why is it essentially an octatonic projection of the last four notes of Luke's Theme?

 

[gkgyver 1,645]

If this won the Oscar, I could actually get behind that.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Of course you would!

[Not Mr. Big 4,639]

What's the median award between an Oscar and a Razzie?  Rogue One deserves that.  

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

MTV Movie Awards?

[DominicCobb 194]

21 hours ago, BTR1701 said:

 

Well, Williams sure did a strange job of using a supposedly Rebel motif to emphasize the Imperial presence on screen. All throughout the film, it's used to accentuate the Empire, not the Rebels. Why is it playing triumphantly as the Falcon is captured by the Death Star? Who's winning there? Not the Falcon-- which isn't even a Rebel ship at that point, nor are its occupants part of the Rebellion. Even during the TIE fighter attack after the Falcon escapes the Death Star, the fanfare plays every time we see the TIEs strafing the Falcon, not when the Falcon fires back and destroys them. And why would Williams use a Rebel motif over a scene of Vader heading off into space in his TIE at the end?

 

I'm not denying what Williams said in the liner notes. I'm just saying it doesn't track with how the theme was actually used in the film.

 

No, it comes from my observation of the actual film and the music's placement in it.

 

I personally feel like it's not just a "Rebel" theme, it's also a sort of underdog theme. So it shows up when the Rebels are in danger. It's not just a matter of who's winning - it's the conflict, and the Rebel's struggle. Why do we hear it when the Rebel soldiers are running around by themselves on the Tantive, but when we see stormtroopers by themselves it's the Imperial theme? If it's an Imperial theme, why is it never used when just the Imperials are around? Vader at the end might be the one exception but I always took that to as like "yeah we just kicked his ass." And just off the top of my head, what about the placement of the Rebel fanfare immediately after the binary sunset in the film makes you think its an Imperial theme? What about when Han tells Luke which cell Leia's in and he runs off to rescue her? What about when the Falcon finally escapes from the Death Star? What about in the end credits, after the Rebels have won and everything's happy?

 

Also, to think it's an Imperial theme, quite simply, flies in the fact of the most obvious observation one could make: it sounds heroic as fuck.

[Jay 37,287]

19 hours ago, Stefancos said:

The first thing is that our "beloved" Moderator seems to have been swayed by this...theory!

 

 

 

 

Heinous!

 

Wrong, my "woah" was in relationship to how much thinking he had clearly done about this, how detailed his post was, etc.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

So you may claim...

 

In 2017 I will continue to keep my eye on you, LeBlanc! You and the rest of the Moderating team!

 

Stefancos: Who Watches The Watchmen.

[Quintus 5,399]

20 hours ago, king mark said:

Anyways somewhere in the archives of this MB, I've said many time I thought it was the Empire theme for ANH

 

It still is, in my mind

 

A lot of things still are, in your mind. 

[Miz 139]

Enough banter and confusion over 1977 leitmotif!

 

I've been enjoying the new themes for Rogue One more since realising their attunement to the Force theme. Playing said theme on keyboard in concert with Guardians of the Whills is tricky, but elucidates some similarities; playing alongside the Jyn theme, especially the Eadu finale (in D, I think), shows just how well it is interwoven with the Force theme. Any takers?

[BloodBoal 7,538]

I always thought Jyn's theme was actually more of a theme for Krennic, really.  Anyone else agrees?

[Jay 37,287]

20 hours ago, steb74 said:

I'm kind of astonished that it could ever be mistaken as a representation of the Imperials.

I think a leitmotif is at its strongest when it represents an idea rather than anchored directly to a character.

Every instance of the RF in SW only serves to push the story forward by illustrating how the characters' circumstances are changing.

 

A wonderful instance is after the binary sunset when Luke returns to find R2 missing, just before his discovery we're treated to a little cheeky version by the flutes almost whistling to him 'be careful what you wish for', it goes by in a second but it's there to tell us that Luke's story will change from this point on. That's the point Luke inherits that piece of musical material as part of his own trajectory.

 

 

NIcely said!

[artguy360 1,843]

3 hours ago, Miz said:

Enough banter and confusion over 1977 leitmotif!

 

I've been enjoying the new themes for Rogue One more since realising their attunement to the Force theme. Playing said theme on keyboard in concert with Guardians of the Whills is tricky, but elucidates some similarities; playing alongside the Jyn theme, especially the Eadu finale (in D, I think), shows just how well it is interwoven with the Force theme. Any takers?

I agree Gia did a good job musically connecting the new themes to existing SW themes. From the Imperial theme to Krennic's theme being VERY similar to the Imperial March, the Hope theme being very similar to the Rebel theme or Luke's theme or something, and the connections to the Force theme. My issue is that the new themes are not very satisfying on their own. But in terms of connectivity, Gia did a nice job.

[Loert 2,510]

20 hours ago, DominicCobb said:

 

I personally feel like it's not just a "Rebel" theme, it's also a sort of underdog theme. So it shows up when the Rebels are in danger. It's not just a matter of who's winning - it's the conflict, and the Rebel's struggle.

 

Just thought I would mention that in the orchestral score for "Imperial Attack", one of the instances of that theme has a big red bracket before it with the word "WAR" written next to it. So that too would suggest that it resembles the conflict more than the Rebels per se.  

[Wojo 2,453]

There was a theme commonly used for Jyn that sounded like it wanted to become Across the Stars. Mildly distracting that it never resolved as expected. 

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Wojo 2,453]

I might need to listen to the soundtrack before commenting further. It's on the list for 2019 listening. 

[artguy360 1,843]

2 hours ago, petaQ said:

There was a theme commonly used for Jyn that sounded like it wanted to become Across the Stars. Mildly distracting that it never resolved as expected. 

Yeah that particular unintentional musical similarity is hard to un-hear. 

[TheUlyssesian 2,473]

The first two notes are the same, and a few of the subsequent thereafter too. So it can sound similar, but such similarity is completely ordinary in various themes, Sticks out here because its the same universe.

[Bryant Burnette 654]

I'd have a hard time believing that Giacchino was unaware of the similarity, and if he was aware of it, then it's likely purposeful.  A reminder that this order of guardians was largely destroyed partially as a result of Anakin's love for Padme, or something like that.  I dunno; works for me, though.

[Datameister 2,037]

The Whills theme is more melodically similar to Across the Stars, while Jyn's theme is more harmonically similar.

 

I think the similarity was there because he was trying to emulate Williams' style and he just went rather literal. 

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[gkgyver 1,645]

For a score written in four weeks, that's an awful lot of thematic straw-clutching.

[Not Mr. Big 4,639]

11 minutes ago, gkgyver said:

For a score written by Giacchino, that's an awful lot of thematic straw-clutching.

fixed

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

5 hours ago, gkgyver said:

For a score written in four weeks, that's an awful lot of thematic straw-clutching.

 

It's perfectly reasonable to assume Gia wrote a score with ROTK-like thematic intricacies in just 4 weeks!

[gkgyver 1,645]

9 hours ago, Stefancos said:

 

It's perfectly reasonable to assume Gia wrote a score with ROTK-like thematic intricacies in just 4 weeks!

 

I'm afraid the MS is getting to you.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Ever heard of sarcasm, Fritzy?

[Disco Stu 15,495]

Just now, Stefancos said:

Ever heard of sarcasm, Fritzy?

 

And people say Americans don't understand irony.  Germans are much worse!

[BloodBoal 7,538]

Irony is not easy. Shirts in particular are quite difficult to do right. Took me years to learn how to iron properly.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

He he he!

 

 

[Demodex 557]

Ok, after multiple listens I still can't tell the new themes apart except for Krennic's.  They all sound the same to me. 

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Demodex sounds like a name for a prescribed drug to cure anal discomforts.

 

The real heavy runny shit that makes your arse bleed, man! 

[Luke Skywalker 1,792]

Demodex is the name of a mite, you illiterate!

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demodex

[Demodex 557]

 

I used to troll here ages ago. I'm trying to be nice now. The people here have been very helpful lately. 

[Demodex 557]

I wish the soundtrack had separate tracks for the themes instead of suites.

[DarthDementous 1,059]

36 minutes ago, Demodex said:

I wish the soundtrack had separate tracks for the themes instead of suites.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCedMZfhIlfCyI4O8BprShYw/videos

 

this person has done a pretty impressive job at arranging suites for all the themes in Rogue One and other Star Wars movies.

[Demodex 557]

Thank you!

[mstrox 6,647]

http://variety.com/2017/film/spotlight/michael-giacchino-rogue-one-score-1201952495/

 

New Rogue One Giacchino interview - not a lot of new information, but a quick read.

[Giftheck 916]

I didn't know he did five scores last year and not four.

 

Interesting that he had them play the Star Wars theme first. I wonder if there's a recording of that (or whether that was a recording of the End Credits). If it was the former I wonder if he was asked to record that just in case they decided to go back and do an opening crawl?

[mstrox 6,647]

I think I read somewhere that they did the main title theme just as an orchestral warm-up.

[Jay 37,287]

18 hours ago, Gistech said:

I didn't know he did five scores last year and not four.

 

The fifth score is Book of Henry, Colin Trevorrow's film in between Jurassic World and Star Wars Episode 9. Giacchino actually recorded the score in between Zootopia and Star Trek Beyond; The film was originally supposed to come out in September of 2016.  In August it got pushed back to June 2017, and it's unknown if Giacchino will record revisions, Inserts etc - or even an entire new score - this year.