The Man in the High Castle Discussion Thread

[Quintus 5,399]

Thread created for anyone here following this intriguing new show, it's bound to become quite popular.

 

Season 2 teaser trailer here, starts December 16.

 

Having recently finished the first season and finding it to be cracking good TV, I'm very much looking forward to diving back into the great universe Philip K. Dick; Amazon and Frank Spotnitz have created. 

[Nick1Ø66 4,688]

Excellent show. I watched every episode intently and found it incredibly engaging. A rare example of being better the source material, IMO. But the season finale

Spoiler

SUCKS.

 

[Quintus 5,399]

 

Really? I thought the last episode was the best of the lot. It was brilliant, particularly that last shot

 

I think you're being a little bit bombastic if I'm honest, Nick1066. 

[Nick1Ø66 4,688]

You're right.

I decreased the font size.

Seriously, I'd like to talk about it, but really don't want to spoil anyone. 

[Quintus 5,399]

Sure, I'm happy to return to the subject once a few more here are up to speed. 

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Ep 4 just finished, WTF?

[toothless 963]

Great show, but I agree with Nick about the season finale  

[Quintus 5,399]

I bet I know the reason you two (and probably plenty of others) didn't like the finale. 

 

For me it was near perfect way to end the introductory series. 

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Finished episode 5, which offered a sudden turn in the story as Juliana and Joe part ways and head home. Like how Juliana tries to pick up where she left off, only to realize that she will never be able too. The german guy with that hat, the one posing as a Swedish diplomat reminds me of Liam Neeson in Schindlers List a bit. That swaggering confidence.

[Quintus 5,399]

He's got that man's man facial expression going on, like he's seen a thing or two and absorbed wisdom from it all. 

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Most of the cast are unknown to me, but it's a very well assembled group of actors.

[Quintus 5,399]

Talking about how when Juliana returns home to Frank, it's pretty damn good I think how the show can rather suddenly switch to darker, more mature themes and material, which share runtime with the more adventurous japes and thrills of other earlier scenes. Tonally at odds on the face of it, but it's actually rather seamless in execution, which can't have been easy to pull off. 

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Yes, the characters are forced to deal with the consequences of what happened. I liked Smith's speech about how the actions of one person, who doesnt know what the others working the same cause are doing can destroy everything. That's actually sort of what happened.

 

The shift in tone works because it's actually realistic.

[KK 3,307]

Not a fan. The cardboard characters and its occasionally artificial TV-look largely turn me off to it. Had some promising moments though.

[Thor 7,465]

I liked the first season, but I didn't fall in love with it, as I've done other tv shows in the last few years. Still, I'm gonna tune in for season 2 in December.

[Nick1Ø66 4,688]

10 minutes ago, Thor said:

I liked the first season, but I didn't fall in love with it, as I've done other tv shows in the last few years. Still, I'm gonna tune in for season 2 in December.

What did you think of the obvious 80's influences? 

[Quintus 5,399]

10 hours ago, KK said:

Not a fan. The cardboard characters

 

Do you mean you consider them to be too simplistic or you just find them uninteresting?

 

The characters are certainly two dimensional, at this stage at least, which for me is absolutely fine in this story's context. Broadly drawn characterisation was fine in Indiana Jones and The Lord of the Rings, too, of course. It's also fine in the The Walking Dead, whose own writing style isn't all that dissimilar. As in a lot of the old war/spy movies, the 'boys own' adventure ones and the like, it can actually be a part of the appeal; The Man in the High Castle has quite different sensibilities to other contemporary TV in that way. Unlike a lot of what is current, "Castle" certainly isn't meant as a sprawling character study, though that could change of course, but I'd hope that wouldn't be too detrimental.  

[Nick1Ø66 4,688]

4 hours ago, Quintus said:

 

Do you mean you consider them to be too simplistic or you just find them uninteresting?

 

The characters are certainly two dimensional, at this stage at least, which for me is absolutely fine in this story's context. Broadly drawn characterisation was fine in Indiana Jones and The Lord of the Rings, too, of course. It's also fine in the The Walking Dead, whose own writing style isn't all that dissimilar. As in a lot of the old war/spy movies, the 'boys own' adventure ones and the like, it can actually be a part of the appeal; The Man in the High Castle has quite different sensibilities to other contemporary TV in that way. Unlike a lot of what is current, "Castle" certainly isn't meant as a sprawling character study, though that could change of course, but I'd hope that wouldn't be too detrimental.  

Well said. I actually find the approach to be strikingly original, at least for among current TV trends. I don't think there's anything else quite like it on at the moment, at least that I've seen.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

For a show set in an ocupied USA featuring torture, random murder etc it's surprisingly non-depressing and grim. Despite the subject matter it isn't "gritty and realistic". In its heart its pulp sci-fi. 

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Finished episode 7. There's a real tense atmosphere now in nearly every scene. The combination of several characters, connected but all acting out of their own interest, the oppressive environment of an occupied country where some things can only be whispered. What I like is that the show introduces characters before they are strictly needed for the narrative so by the time they are required for the story, they are already part of it rather then shoehorned in. A good example is the antique dealer and the Japanese couple that invite him for dinner and treat him as a sort of play thing.

 

The VA day stuff in Smith's home was an interesting mix between a formal German traditional household and wholesome and warm all-American white picket fence stuff. That discord in styles added to the creepiness of Smith.

 

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Ep 9 just finished. And with one more to go I'm absolutely glued to the edge of my seat. Mostly because the plot has been slowly but surely developing and I still have no idea where the last episode will take me.

There's a edge of subtle dread that strongly permeates the show as pretty much every character has to make a decision that either will cost them their lives, or be the catalyst of something bigger. And in the midst of all this there's the reel of film. Showing something that cannot be.

Being Philip K. Dick this is of course sci-fi., but it's so deeply hidden in the shows texture that the revelation of the films contents is actually rather shocking.

While I agree with Quintus that this film has a pulpy, graphic novel feel too it. It's done with a patience, and subtlety and a complexity that I really wasnt expecting.

 

Unless the last episode really balls things up this is absolutely Golden Age material. But the people who made this have so far done so with utter confidence so I doubt they will falter on the last lap.

 

 

[Nick1Ø66 4,688]

1 hour ago, Stefancos said:

I'm absolutely glued to the edge of my seat.

Yep, I was the same. Utterly riveting. There are several shows I like, but I can watch them while checking email or web surfing or chopping vegetables. This show was pure eyes on the TV for me. It all comes together...casting, character, plot, ambience, mood set design, music, etc.  And as I said before, there's nothing else quite like it on at the moment.

 

But get on with it already so everyone can talk about the finale!

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Finished!

 

Damn!

[A24 4,326]

So is it The Mentalist or more like golden age TV?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Don't you know? Didnt you watch this? Scott and Philip K. Dick, you said this was of interest to you!

[A24 4,326]

Haven't seen it passing on Netflix yet.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

It's Amazon, so I doubt you will ever see it on Netflix.

 

Is Netflix the limit of your viewing nowadays? There are other places to find good viewing. Not as easy perhaps, but more worthy.

[A24 4,326]

Is it legal to talk about it?

[Quintus 5,399]

Alexcremers will misunderstand the designs of The Man in the High Castle, it won't be for him unless he can alter his viewing angle and recalibrate his expectations. He did eventually manage it with The Walking Dead, after I helped highlight exactly the sort of show it was (before then he was dismissive of it, but then he became a fan), so it could go either way with this.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Not in The Greater Nazi Reich!

[A24 4,326]

Have you become a Nazi now? 

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

A man with the surname Cosman could never become a Nazi. Know your history, Alex.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

 

Alex will no doubt take my opinion with a gain of salt, but I definitely consider this to be Golden Age viewing. The way it slowly but surely works it's way towards the climax. Building tension and suspense by never quite revealing its intentions fully is incredibly well done and incredibly satisfying.

 

Some might be turned off by the final scene. But I like how it's both a complete surprise AND confirms suspicions I already had. And how it will keep me pondering about what is to come next season.

It's also a shows that builds it's world in great detail. The art direction is excellent and I love the differences between the Japanese and Nazi parts of America. In one white folk are secondary citizens, in the other they are the only ones who havent been annihilated.

The unspoken tension that exists between the two cultures throughout. And the ironic knowledge that the one thing keeping Japan and Germany from going to war is Hitler.

 

Also, a very interesting set of characters, played by just the right cast. You can often infer things about the characters by a look, stance or intonation of words. Very important for a show that plays it's cards close to it's vest.

 

This wipes the floor with Stranger Things, in just about every way.

 

 

[Quintus 5,399]

Lol, no contest. 

[Nick1Ø66 4,688]

Agreed that this was far better than Stranger Things.

 

As far as the finale goes, I haven't seen it since January, but if I recall my negative reaction to it wasn't the final scene. It was that, after the excellent writing, pitch perfect pacing and characterisation, the whole thing unravels in a way that is predicated upon coincidence, plot contrivance and most annoyingly, people doing stupid things. Which always drives me crazy.  And alll the people being saved, or screwed, at the last second and action just felt a little rushed, with an over reliance on traditional TV tropes which felt off key to me after nine episodes of slow burn.

 

That said, the show is still among the best that's come out in recent years, and I'm eagerly awaiting to see where they take it in Season 2.

[Thor 7,465]

Why would you compare this show with STRANGER THINGS? They have nothing in common. On a personal level, though, I connected more to ST than MAN. In fact, now that it's been several months since I binged the first season of MAN, I can hardly remember anything of the plot at all, except the pilot -- which I saw twice.

[Quintus 5,399]

I compared the two last week purely due to everyone and their dog seeming to have gone mad over the nice but unremarkable Stranger Things whilst the, for my tastes, FAR superior High Castle has largely flown under the social media radar and barely generated much discussion in the places I frequent at all (Netflix being considerably bigger than Amazon streaming arguably being one good reason). So by comparing the two it's simply my way of drawing attention to the show which is deserving of more than it's currently getting, that's all. I have no doubts whatsoever though that if season two delivers more of the same quality that this will change and High Castle's profile will grow into quite something. 

[Quintus 5,399]

Three episodes of the second season in the bag, the first two of which weren't ideal - I'd forgotten some of the intricacies of the plot and this show makes no allowances for that at all, so it was all quite confusing and messy to get back into a few months past since I'd finished the first season. It wasn't entirely my own fault either though, because something still felt off in episodes 1 & 2 regardless, there is a distinct lack of focus and the storytelling is extremely shabby, being poorly structured and sporadic. It was an unwieldy watch. 

 

Thankfully the third episode was a solid step up, and a feeling of familiar territory has at last began to settle in again. The episode was simply better made and more dramatic than the wobbly opening couple of hours worth. There's quite a lot going on at this point, so I can forgive the production for struggling to hit the ground running after what was a thrilling end to events seen in High Castle 1. That was a tough adventurous act to follow! A single central plot line is still yet to come into focus thus far, but the characters each have their compelling motivations and that in itself will do for now.