James Newton Howard's Fantastic Beasts And Where To Find Them

[Jay 37,287]

Yea a few posts later someone said that theme was actually the overacting franchise theme didn't they?

[Disco Stu 15,495]

This is the problem with me coming around on this score weeks/days after everyone else.  Back-tracing through the discussions everyone else already had

 

[BloodBoal 7,538]

11 minutes ago, Jay said:

Yea a few posts later someone said that theme was actually the overacting franchise theme didn't they?

 

I'm not sure that was the theme that person was referring to.

[Disco Stu 15,495]

How much clearer could he get that that's the theme he was talking about?

 

Quote

Grindelwald Theme

-Heard in the beginning of Main Title track ( at 00:19-00:41 (The Fantastic Beast Logo), and then to 1:40 (The Film Version is a bit longer to accompany the newspaper reel))

 

[BloodBoal 7,538]

I was responding to LeBlanc, but then you had to insert a post in-between LeBlanc's message and mine!

[mrbellamy 6,272]

5 minutes ago, Jay said:

Yea a few posts later someone said that theme was actually the overacting franchise theme didn't they?

 

I think "A Man and His Beasts" is meant to be the franchise theme according to JNH. Though I didn't find it made much of an impression in the film, interestingly, besides the MACUSA entrance. I'm hard pressed to remember any other moments it had.

 

I'm still not really too sure what that riff over the Fantastic Beasts logo and elsewhere represents, if anything in particular.

[publicist 4,643]

It seems a differently harmonized riff on the opening notes of the main theme, just to give it some urgency. But that's just a random observation. JNH is much less formalist than, say, Goldsmith where you could pretty much bet on some kind of tonal relationship between different score parts.

 

Could also be just something out of the basket that Yates liked and asked to be put there...

[Will 2,215]

1 hour ago, Jay said:

 

Can you link me too it?  I just tried searching Spotify and didn't see one.

Sure. I'll do it as soon as I get home. It's private now so that's why you can't find it. 

 

EDIT: Oh, looks like @Bilbo Skywalker already shared his, never mind. The only difference with mine is that I put A Man and His Beasts after Kowalski Rag because I think there needs to be a break after the second end credits part since that covers the same theme with similar orchestration.

[Jay 37,287]

You're late to the party @Will, I've already been linked to one right after I posted that

 

[Will 2,215]

Just now, Jay said:

You're late to the party @Will, I've already been linked to one right after I posted that

 

As I just noticed. 

[Jay 37,287]

 

5 minutes ago, Will said:

The only difference with mine is that I put A Man and His Beasts after Kowalski Rag because I think there needs to be a break after the second end credits part since that covers the same theme with similar orchestration.

 

Wouldn't it make more sense to have it open the whole playlist, before the Main Title?

[Bilbo 3,709]

I stuck the two at the end since they're concert pieces and not part of the film and then just put them in the order they're on the cd. 

[Will 2,215]

3 minutes ago, Jay said:

 

 

Wouldn't it make more sense to have it open the whole playlist, before the Main Title?

 

I like opening with the Main Title since that's how the film opens. Also, having Man and Beasts as the second track might work, but I think putting an eight minute suite at the beginning would kill the momentum. Also nice to have main theme introduced for MACUSA intro.

[Jay 37,287]

Hmmm, true.  Maybe it is best as the final track.

[bollemanneke 3,337]

I recently started putting concert arrangements at the very beginniig of my albums (I think Jay gave me that idea) and it works so much better than putting them at the end. No more annoying repetitions.

[A. A. Ron 1,738]

I like "A Man and His Beasts" at the beginning myself. Dropped the Main Title and Blind Pig from my playlists entirely.

[publicist 4,643]

7 minutes ago, Will said:

 

I like opening with the Main Title since that's how the film opens. 

 

It's not a very good cue, though (not even a good one). I would skip the 'Main Title' for the concert cue.

[Jay 37,287]

Here's the chronological order again so no one has to go searching

 

Film score:
1-01 Main Titles - Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them (2:54)
1-02 There Are Witches Among Us / The Bank / The Niffler (6:53)
1-03 Tina Takes Newt In / MACUSA Headquarters (1:56)
2-02 Soup and Leaflets (2:19)
2-03 Billywig (1:31)
2-04 The Demiguise and the Lollipop (0:58)
1-04 Pie or Strudel / Escaping Queenie and Tina’s Place (3:05)
1-05 Credence Hands Out Leaflets (2:03)
1-06 Inside the Case (9:08)
1-07 The Erumpent (3:28)
1-08 In the Cells (2:10)
1-09 Tina and Newt Trial / Let’s Get the Good Stuff Out / You’re One of Us Now / Swooping Evil (7:59)
2-06 Blind Pig (1:29)
1-10 Gnarlak Negotiations (2:57)
2-05 I’m Not Your Ma (2:04)
1-11 The Demiguise and the Occamy (4:06)
1-12 A Close Friend (1:51)
1-13 The Obscurus / Rooftop Chase (3:48)
2-07 Newt Talks to Credence (2:13)
1-14 He’s Listening to You Tina (2:05)
1-15 Relieve Him of His Wand / Newt Releases the Thunderbird / Jacob’s Farewell (12:33)
1-16 Newt Says Goodbye to Tina / Jacob’s Bakery (3:26)
1-17 End Titles (2:21)
2-08 End Titles, Pt. 2 (1:22)

 

Concert arrangements:
2-01 A Man and His Beasts (8:31)
2-09 Kowalski Rag (5:12)

[Will 2,215]

37 minutes ago, publicist said:

 

It's not a very good cue, though (not even a good one). I would skip the 'Main Title' for the concert cue.

 

Well, I love it! I'd never take it out!

37 minutes ago, amh1219 said:

I like "A Man and His Beasts" at the beginning myself. Dropped the Main Title and Blind Pig from my playlists entirely.

 

I like that one too, actually. 

[publicist 4,643]

I didn't, either. But as far as compelling musical solutions for connecting different ideas go, this one stinks (JNH just put in some band-aid to connect the dots).

 

PS: i just streamed this movie and it's an untidy mess (though parts are cute). Also, the whole endless effect shebang with the shapeless creature...it may be a cruel and insulting thing to say, but the storm creature in 'Supergirl' was flat-out better than this nonsense.

 

Rowling should SOS for Steve Kloves to give her rambling ideas some focus that makes sense. As for Yates, the direction is mediocre at best. 

[BloodBoal 7,538]

This forum needs more people like you, pub.

[Bilbo 3,709]

If there's one thing the internet needs it's more negativity. 

[mrbellamy 6,272]

2 hours ago, Disco Stu said:

I'm not sure I agree with @PrayodiBA on calling the theme over the title Grindelwald's.  It would make no sense for his theme to be in "The BillyWig" or "The Demiguise and the Lollipop."  And if it was his theme I'd expect to hear it in "Relieve Him of His Wand" for reasons that will be obvious to people who've seen the movie.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Does anyone know which part in that track is playing for the reveal of Depp?

 

Is it the part at 1:50?  I only saw it once and just can't remember.

 

 

 

 

Looked up a bootleg of the film and that riff/theme actually does happen in that spoiler which is missing from the OST, and of course over the prologue. So yeah, I guess we can call it for Grindelwald. Not sure about the other statements.

[Disco Stu 15,495]

Just now, mrbellamy said:

 

Looked up a bootleg of the film and that riff/theme actually does happen in that spoiler which is missing from the OST, and of course over the prologue. So yeah, I guess we can call it for Grindelwald. Not sure about the other statements.

 

I totally didn't catch that while watching the movie.  Seems like a weird thing to leave off the OST.  Even weirder that the theme plays for those monster shenanigan moments.  But hey, guess I was wrong!

[BloodBoal 7,538]

33 minutes ago, Bilbo Skywalker said:

If there's one thing the internet needs it's more negativity. 

 

pub isn't a negative guy. He's just more critical than most here, and for some reason people have a hard time dealing with that.

 

I personally welcome it as a breath of fresh air!

[A. A. Ron 1,738]

Generally, so do I.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

And that's why you're one of the good guys!

[KK 3,307]

1 hour ago, publicist said:

 

It's not a very good cue, though (not even a good one). I would skip the 'Main Title' for the concert cue.

 

Indeed. It seems more like lazy, last-minute re-scoring. It sticks out like a sore thumb from the rest of the score.

[Will 2,215]

 

Has some very brief recording sessions shots. 

4 hours ago, mrbellamy said:

 

Looked up a bootleg of the film and that riff/theme actually does happen in that spoiler which is missing from the OST, and of course over the prologue. So yeah, I guess we can call it for Grindelwald. Not sure about the other statements.

 

Oh wow. I was guessing it was just a general "danger" theme. I absolutely loved it over the main title, at any rate. 

[publicist 4,643]

7 hours ago, BloodBoal said:

I personally welcome it as a breath of fresh air!

 

Your cheque is placed next to the lube jar, as always!

[TheUlyssesian 2,473]

8 hours ago, Jay said:

Here's the chronological order again so no one has to go searching

 

Film score:
1-01 Main Titles - Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them (2:54)
1-02 There Are Witches Among Us / The Bank / The Niffler (6:53)
1-03 Tina Takes Newt In / MACUSA Headquarters (1:56)
2-02 Soup and Leaflets (2:19)
2-03 Billywig (1:31)
2-04 The Demiguise and the Lollipop (0:58)
1-04 Pie or Strudel / Escaping Queenie and Tina’s Place (3:05)
1-05 Credence Hands Out Leaflets (2:03)
1-06 Inside the Case (9:08)
1-07 The Erumpent (3:28)
1-08 In the Cells (2:10)
1-09 Tina and Newt Trial / Let’s Get the Good Stuff Out / You’re One of Us Now / Swooping Evil (7:59)
2-06 Blind Pig (1:29)
1-10 Gnarlak Negotiations (2:57)
2-05 I’m Not Your Ma (2:04)
1-11 The Demiguise and the Occamy (4:06)
1-12 A Close Friend (1:51)
1-13 The Obscurus / Rooftop Chase (3:48)
2-07 Newt Talks to Credence (2:13)
1-14 He’s Listening to You Tina (2:05)
1-15 Relieve Him of His Wand / Newt Releases the Thunderbird / Jacob’s Farewell (12:33)
1-16 Newt Says Goodbye to Tina / Jacob’s Bakery (3:26)
1-17 End Titles (2:21)
2-08 End Titles, Pt. 2 (1:22)

 

Concert arrangements:
2-01 A Man and His Beasts (8:31)
2-09 Kowalski Rag (5:12)

 

So this must be the rare album - I mean the normally released one CD version - which is entirely in chronological order?

 

[KK 3,307]

19 hours ago, leeallen01 said:

You can really hear him having fun in the score. 

 

Funny you say that, I hear the opposite of that for most of the score, especially in the action writing and third act. But the franchise theme is the most promising material and it goes through some well thought variations.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[publicist 4,643]

I think the idea of creating that world appealed to him. The film is dramatically too flat to challenge any film composer (the threadbare characterizations don't help, either).

[KK 3,307]

 

Seriously though, having come back from watching the film, the score is surprisingly a bit drab in context. You can hear moments where he flirts more with colour, but it generally leaves you wanting. For a film that seems to embrace its fantasy element more than some predecessors, the score is oddly tame (maybe at the behest of the director?). And there are scenes where JNH underscores with some questionable emotional beats. 

 

Again promising ideas, but largely unfulfilled.

[publicist 4,643]

5 minutes ago, BloodBoal said:

Great! Another hater hating for the sake of hating!

 

Do these Alabama hot pocket pics count for nothin'??

[KK 3,307]

10 hours ago, publicist said:

It seems a differently harmonized riff on the opening notes of the main theme, just to give it some urgency. But that's just a random observation. JNH is much less formalist than, say, Goldsmith where you could pretty much bet on some kind of tonal relationship between different score parts.

 

In context, it appears to be associated with Grindlewald.

[publicist 4,643]

But when you see him it's not used. There are really three big tunes that play off one another, which is the mischievous theme, the big hymnal tune and the Kowalski theme. All the other ideas are either circumstantial or used indifferently. The rest may fall into place later but my guess is that JNH created a candy store of possible ideas to Yates drew from it. It doesn't seem organical but Williams does the same for these projects ('Dobby The House Elf'!) so it's a nice indulgent continuation.

[KK 3,307]

I agree. The score isn't really fashioned in a very leitmotivic sense, but that was never really JNH's style anyway.

 

But that riff seems to play mostly in relation to Grindlewald moments, so it seemed to make sense. I can see it being developed or played for future battles with him involved.

 

Having said that, this is a film that could have used some of Williams' HP1 flourishes with a mix of HP3's inventive personality. But I guess the picture does little to inspire that.

[Jay 37,287]

10 hours ago, TheUlyssesian said:

 

So this must be the rare album - I mean the normally released one CD version - which is entirely in chronological order?

 

 

That's not rare for modern film scores at all!

[Bilbo 3,709]

Seems to becoming more and more common alright. I prefer it that way. I don't like Williams' rearrangement of pieces for "flow". I prefer a narrative rather than a flow of you follow my meaning.

[Disco Stu 15,495]

Everybody be very, very still. Thor's vision is based on movement.

[Bilbo 3,709]

I also prefer when they're complete and chronological .

[bollemanneke 3,337]

Well it's only logical, isn't it? Who buys scores wishing to hear something completely different than the cues in film order? I never understood that different approach.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

You guys, who are both film music fans and fans of the film they were written for, have a hard time dissociating the two and thus find that the only logical way to present the music is in film order. It's understandable and somehow reasonable.

 

But the thing you have to understand is that an OST isn't (necessarily) designed for fans of the films/film music aficionados only. It's meant for a wider audience, and it's also a different format, thus it's supposed to work in a different way: here you just have the music, not the pictures to go with it. People who haven't seen the film don't care if the cues are in chronological order, and so do people who have seen the film but didn't really pay attention to the order in which the cues appear. All they want when they buy the OST is a good music album, a satisfying listening experience from start to finish. And sometimes, the chronological order doesn't make for the most exciting experience, for example, with a score where only the second half offers meaty material, or a sequence with 40 minutes of uninterrupted action music. Picking cues here and there and moving them around can help offering a smoother and more fluid musical program.

 

Personally, while I'm rarely satisfied by OSTs that shuffle cues around, merge them, etc. (because, like you, I often have a hard time dissociating the music and the film it was written for) I still find it to be a valid approach and it can be a good way to offer a more satisfying listening experience than the chronological one (I've come to appreciate more what album producers are trying to achieve as I did more and more edits of my own from recording sessions leak).

[bollemanneke 3,337]

But are you saying that the majority of OST audiences don't know the film? Or is that what the composer hopes? I personally never listen to a score unless I know its film.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Bilbo 3,709]

Yeah I can see where you're coming from but I think album sequencing is a thing of the past. People decide things based on 30 second clips on iTunes. That's disgusting but that's the way people go. 

[mrbellamy 6,272]

9 hours ago, publicist said:

But when you see him it's not used. 

 

I think I've sorted out this confusing issue...compare 0:19 and 1:23

 

 

Same rhythmic idea. When Grindelwald appears at the end, it's the 1:23 version (missing from the OST, probably tracked from the prologue). So I'd say it's basically a general "danger motif" which by extension doubles in the film as an identity for Grindelwald. 

[BloodBoal 7,538]

11 minutes ago, Bilbo Skywalker said:

Yeah I can see where you're coming from but I think album sequencing is a thing of the past. People decide things based on 30 second clips on iTunes.

 

I'm not sure how that goes against the reasons for album sequencing. Why would that make them suddenly care if the music is in chronological order or not?