Episode VIII Teaser and Trailer music

[mrbellamy 6,272]

[Dixon Hill 4,233]

7 hours ago, Will said:

 

What even is it that you consider "artful"?

 

Not Star Wars, frankly.  Rogue One could have changed that, but I doubt it now. 

[Will 2,215]

2 hours ago, TheWhiteRider said:

 

Not Star Wars, frankly.  

 

 

 

[Dixon Hill 4,233]

No need to roll your eyes through a gif.  I'm not trying to come down on you for liking what you like.  Star Wars is cool, but to me, it's pretty light, and isn't much more than a bit of fun.  Totally understand - there are plenty of people around the internet, including here, who do want to turn their taste into some absolute gague of artistic value, but don't mistake my own opinions for that.  Believe me, I've dealt with plenty of them myself. 

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Ring theory man! It's changed everything!

[Dixon Hill 4,233]

Should I throw out my Kubrick, Malick, Tarkovsky, and Bergman collections to make shelf space for more Star Wars?  Is it the way of the future?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Yes!

 

Start with Ep I, not Ep IV!

[Will 2,215]

On 10/2/2016 at 11:02 PM, Not Mr. Big said:

Lincoln and War Horse are my favorites because they have Williams music.  

 

Yes, along with a couple SW ones those are my all-time favorites.

@Cerebral Cortex

 

 

Yes! Also one of my all-time favorites.

 

On 10/3/2016 at 0:11 AM, mrbellamy said:

That first War Horse teaser was such a breath of fresh air. First new Williams theme in three years. 

 

Yeah, I wish I'd been a Williams fan then, that must have been amazing. 

23 hours ago, TheWhiteRider said:

Star Wars is cool, but to me, it's pretty light, and isn't much more than a bit of fun.  Totally understand - there are plenty of people around the internet, including here, who do want to turn their taste into some absolute gague of artistic value, but don't mistake my own opinions for that.  Believe me, I've dealt with plenty of them myself. 

 

I know the purpose of your post was NOT to start an argument, so the following will be directed more toward JWFan in general:

 

I will admit right off the bat that, since I like SW, I've always been really interested in finding artistic value or complexity in it beyond simple entertainment.

 

So, am I a little biased? Sure. Am I a film or literature professor? No. 

 

But today in English class at school we read a short essay on literature -- specifically, the difference between "commercial" and "literary" fiction. There were some interesting parallels with film, specifically SW and the prequels. There is obviously a lot of gray area about commercial vs. literary and you could make all sorts of arguments about what goes into each category but the author of this particular essay talked about several main ways to distinguish them. "Commercial fiction" was defined as fiction whose main purpose was to be a diversion for the reader and to make money. "Literary fiction" was defined as that which gives us a deeper understanding of the human condition and is written with some greater "artistic purpose" than just making money. Literary fiction, the essay stated, should be read at least twice before judgement, and often contains deeper levels, making it often immensely rewarding to keep reading over and over again even if it seems much more boring than "commercial fiction" at first. 

 

Here's the really interesting part: There were some common characteristics of commercial fiction listed. According to the essay, these were the things people at large really wanted in general in their literature.

 

- We come in with specific, fixed expectations and we feel frustrated and dissapointed unless those expectations are met. (People expected another "kids movie" with TPM. Was that fair? Why isn't it okay to change your mind about something? (people are always criticizing Lucas about that) GL clearly chose to go a different direction, searching for "higher art" more so than kids fare by the time of the prequels). Those fixed expectations generally held by readers of "commercial fiction" include...

- A pretty happy, uncomplicated ending (sounds like ROTJ!)

- A hero that the audience can easily relate to (sounds like Luke!)

- A clear plot with a page-turning quality (the prequels are always being criticized for being "boring" and "complicated" which I agree is pretty accurate compared to many other films)

 

Now, here are some characteristics of literary fiction:

 

- Unresolved, sad, and/or conflicted ending (sounds a little like ROTS!)

- We are forced to examine our expectations and discover how our views have been challenged

- Unique style or vision in order to express artistic truth (if the ring theory is spot on, then this fits in perfectly; even if not, there are some very interesting ideas discussed)

- We need to keep an open mind and stay receptive to the author's style and imagination, however different it may be from our habits of perceiving the world

- A more complex plot structure that is more demanding of the reader (prequel politics!)

- Takes us behind the scene to see more how the real world works (politics, suffering, sad endings) and not how some fantasized version works (obviously we don't see the real world directly, it's fiction, but the idea is that we learn some "truth" through even fictional works) 

 

Now, is it appropriate to talk about the prequels as if they were written art when they are in fact visual art? Some would argue that it is not. Obviously such an analysis eliminates things like camera work and acting quality that someone like me, who knows a lot about literature but not much about film, can't really notice a lot of the time. 

 

This post does continue my tradition of discussing the prequels as if they were books. Part of that, I think, stems from the fact that when I haven't watched a movie in a while, it's more the story than the camera shots that stay in my memory. So after going a little bit without watching the film I tend to judge it more based on the story, I think, possibly in lieu of other things. 

 

That said, I was really stunned by how many parallels there were between that article I read today at school and the SW prequels vs. OT debate. I hope that others at least consider what I've written above. 

 

To summarize: Looking at SW as literature, the OT and TFA are more in the "commercial fiction" area, with some "literary fiction" elements, while the prequels are much more strongly in the literary fiction category, Lucas's seemingly rigid adherence to literary forms perhaps to the detriment of other elements of the films, some would say. Therefore, it could be argued that the OT and TFA are more "popcorn entertainment" while the prequels are films that deserve to be studied in a more scholarly way. 

[Dixon Hill 4,233]

Well... did you deliver the bomb?

[Cerebral Cortex 3,357]

@Will: Please stop writing so many great and insightful posts. You're beginning to make us look bad. Thanks! - Cerebral Cortex 

 

 

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

No one went into TPM expecting another kids movie, far from it actually.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I was there, actually. Unlike Will.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Does it explain why the Prequels are so poorly acted, poorly paced, shoddily written and ultimately just plain boring?

 

[Naïve Old Fart 9,507]

38 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

No one went into TPM expecting another kids movie, far from it actually.

 

36 minutes ago, BloodBoal said:

You don't know that. You weren't there, man!

 

If Steef says he was there, he was there. I see no reason to disbelieve him.

I, too, was there... I just wish that I hadn't been...

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

I don't know what this thread is about anymore or what these trailers have to do with Star Wars or John Williams. That being said, since I was a kid and saw it many times in line at The Great Movie Ride at Disney-MGM Studios, I've been partial to the Raiders trailer. It's a phenomenal edit of Williams' music.

 

 

[Will 2,215]

9 hours ago, Stefancos said:

No one went into TPM expecting another kids movie, far from it actually.

 

Well, if that is the case then my statement to the contrary stands corrected. As you note, I didn't experience TPM's release like you; in fact, I wasn't even born yet. 

 

However, I've gotten the sense that people hoped for and expected films very similar to the OT (particularly, perhaps, those who grew up with the OT). @Jay, what do you remember? 

 

There is another thing I want to point out. I was watching the sneak preview of the Prequels Strike Back documentary yesterday and there was some discussion about how being a kid when a "kids movie" comes out can really change your perception of it. For those who were children in the 70s and 80s, the OT will likely always be beloved. For some children from the 90s and 2000s, the prequels will always be their favorites. For me, TFA will probably always be my favorite. I suspect a major reason that there don't really seem to be that many people, even 2000s kids, who love the prequels is simply that they got swept up in the anti-prequel craze of the longtime fans back when the films were released. I've heard people at my school saying the prequels are the worst movies ever made. Who knows if they have even watched all of them. But it's so easy to get swept up in whatever the "cool" tastes are within SW fandom or pop culture fandom at large. For example, I essentially have the strong belief that David Yates is a bad director. Is that fair? Absolutely not. I've only seen his Potter films, only once or twice each, and I barely remember anything about them now. But so many people are constantly slamming Yates that that's almost become my own opinion even though I have zero personal basis for it. (This is not to say that everyone that doesn't like the prequels has no basis for this; but it might suggest how easy it is to get swept up in a "trend"). 

 

So I hypothesize that those who grew up with the OT generally a) Hated the fact that the prequels were so different from the originals and b) hated the little humorous bits that GL added to make it still kid-friendly, even if his overall goals had changed a little since the OT (they hated the humor since they weren't kids anymore; but they would still like the OT's humorous bits because of their fond memories; similarly, perhaps TFA to some extent rode the wave of nostalgia for the OT kids since it felt like another OT film). I further hypothesize that perhaps many of the legion who grew up with the prequels grew to not particularly like them largely because they were swept up in the older generation's backlash. I mean, I hear some JWFanners (king mark, for example) always reminiscing about the "good old days" of JW fandom and I myself begin to yearn for them. It's certainly possible that people were simply told that what they were seeing was subpar so they started actually thinking it was sub par. 

 

I may be wrong on a lot of this but I'd be interested to hear from more people who saw the prequels when they were released. What was the feeling like before and after among various demographics of SW fandom? 

 

One last thing about the prequel humor: As I alluded to, there are certain bits of humor in, say, TPM, that are really only perceptible to younger people. I think this was some fan service from Lucas -- he wanted to make a serious, artistic movie, but understood that people liked a little lightness and fun and that there'd be kids watching who would hopefully enjoy it. So he added Jar Jar and "Roger roger" -- both of which my sister and I get quite a kick out of at times, even though their presence overall might detract from the rather non-kiddie tone of the prequels (particularly after TPM). Lucas perhaps struck out if he thought Jar Jar would be funny for most fans, but at the very least I think some children must have found the character amusing. 

 

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Will. You are obviously a very intelligent and thoughtful young man. And its a pleasure to have you as a member of this community. If you represent the future of John Williams fans, then that future is pretty darn good.

 

But the Prequels are 3 bad films. And you are wasting precious time in your life defending them.

 

I wanted to like TPM in 1999. I gave AOTC every chance in 2002, hoping Lucas had learned. In 2005 i knew ROTS would be a poor film but i went and saw it anyway. After TFA came out I revisited all 3 to see if time and maturity (on my part) might lead me to judge them kinder, but that didn't happen.

 

They are boring films, ultimately. Ineptly made, very expensive boring films. And boring is the one thing Star Wars should never be.

 

 

[Will 2,215]

29 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

Will. You are obviously a very intelligent and thoughtful young man. And its a pleasure to have you as a member of this community. If you represent the future of John Williams fans, then that future is pretty darn good.

 

But the Prequels are 3 bad films. And you are wasting precious time in your life defending them.

 

I wanted to like TPM in 1999. I gave AOTC every chance in 2002, hoping Lucas had learned. In 2005 i knew ROTS would be a poor film but i went and saw it anyway. After TFA came out I revisited all 3 to see if time and maturity (on my part) might lead me to judge them kinder, but that didn't happen.

 

They are boring films, ultimately. Ineptly made, very expensive boring films. And boring is the one thing Star Wars should never be.

 

 

 

I do remember them being boring -- but to tell you the truth I find that often now when watching JW-scored movies (and especially JW-scored SW movies, since I'm a SW fan too). You see, I pay such close attention to the little details in those that it's often hard to truly enjoy them in the way the general public might. Intense fandom can be a curse in that way. 

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Well I judge films like The Book Thief, Memoirs Of A Geisha or Munich differently then something like Star wars. Which is supposed to be about adventure, excitement, action etc.

 

I've always maintained that I appreciate the fact that Lucas truly tried to do something different for the Prequels. But in the end I have to judge the end results, which are dreadful. There is maybe 409 minutes of acceptable material in all 3 films combined. And that doesnt come close to being good enough.

 

The scores are the only things that pass muster, for the most part.

[Skelly 261]

59 minutes ago, Will said:

I think this was some fan service from Lucas -- he wanted to make a serious, artistic movie, but understood that people liked a little lightness and fun and that there'd be kids watching who would hopefully enjoy it.

 

Indeed it was. I think he was also hoping adults would find Jar Jar likable.

There's Phantom Menace behind-the-scenes footage where Lucas literally says, "Jar Jar is the key to all this." His thinking seemed to be that if he could manage to get people to enjoy Jar Jar's antics, they'd swallow the film as a whole a little more easily.

 

I'm glad Lucas wasn't afraid to go a little off-the-wall for his prequels and experiment, and did something new rather than re-hash the original (à la TFA) but as Stef said, the resulting films just can't be taken seriously.

 

There are some undeniably cool parts though. The asteroid chase in Attack of the Clones with the amazing sound design blew me away the first time I saw it.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I don't like that. Good effects, great sound. But lacking any excitement 

[mrbellamy 6,272]

Quote

There is maybe 409 minutes of acceptable material in all 3 films combined.

 

Phantom Menace = 136 minutes

Attack of the Clones = 142 minutes

Revenge of the Sith = 140 minutes

 

= 418 minutes

 

So 9 minutes of crap...I think Steef actually likes these movies. 

[Jay 37,322]

[Skelly 261]

5 hours ago, mrbellamy said:

So 9 minutes of crap...I think Steef actually likes these movies. 

 

The end credits weren't all that bad.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Indeed!

[Amer 2,080]

Do we know the date of the premiere of the first teaser /trailer for Episode VIII? 

[Not Mr. Big 4,639]

 

Quote

 

Do we know the date of the premiere of the first teaser /trailer for Episode VIII? 

Tomorrow 

[Will 2,215]

7 hours ago, Not Mr. Big said:

 

Tomorrow 

 

Almost got a heart attack when I read that. Not funny. 

[Disco Stu 15,495]

Anybody else joining me on going "full media blackout" with Episode VIII marketing?

 

It's obviously impossible not to see some images, like what appears on website front pages and magazine covers, but I'm not going to watch any of the trailers or read interviews or anything like that.  I will look at posters, which I still think are the coolest way to market a movie if done right.

[Will 2,215]

Maybe I'll do that for Episode XVIII. 

 

But I don't think I will be able to restrain myself. TFA's teasers were awesome. I still watch them sometimes.

[Jay 37,322]

7 hours ago, azahid said:

Do we know the date of the premiere of the first teaser /trailer for Episode VIII? 

 

Nope.

[Cerebral Cortex 3,357]

1 hour ago, Disco Stu said:

Anybody else joining me on going "full media blackout" with Episode VIII marketing?

 

It's obviously impossible not to see some images, like what appears on website front pages and magazine covers, but I'm not going to watch any of the trailers or read interviews or anything like that.  I will look at posters, which I still think are the coolest way to market a movie if done right.

 

Definitely something I wanted to do with VII but lacked the willpower. Am going to try and do this with VIII as much as possible. If you're going all in on the media blackout, I shall join thee. 

[Disco Stu 15,495]

1 minute ago, Cerebral Cortex said:

 

Definitely something I wanted to do with VII but lacked the willpower. Am going to try and do this with VIII as much as possible. If you're going all in on the media blackout, I shall join thee. 

 

Yes brother!

 

I managed it with The Force Awakens so it's definitely possible.  It's not always easy.  I skipped the trailers ahead of basically every movie I saw in 2015.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,507]

What's the next big Disney?

We might get something with B+TB.

[Balahkay 627]

My guess is the Star Wars Celebration in April.  Rogue One will be months old so they will be able to focus on Episode VIII without stealing any thunder.  At the very least, they will probably reveal the title.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,507]

May 25th? 

[Will 2,215]

40 minutes ago, someonefun124 said:

My guess is the Star Wars Celebration in April.  Rogue One will be months old so they will be able to focus on Episode VIII without stealing any thunder.  At the very least, they will probably reveal the title.

 

Yep, KK has already said it will be "as we get into spring" or something along those lines. So I think that's probably most likely. Would line up very closely with the RO schedule.

[KK 3,307]

16 minutes ago, Will said:

 

Yep, KK has already said it will be "as we get into spring" or something along those lines. So I think that's probably most likely. Would line up very closely with the RO schedule.

 

I did?

 

[Will 2,215]

1 hour ago, KK said:

 

I did?

 

 

Kathleen Kennedy.