The Spielberg/Williams Collaboration Part III CD & DVD (And Ultimate Collection CD / VINYL box set)

[Disco Stu 15,495]

Bespin's crusade against mallet percussionists must be stopped.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Its racism!

[Bespin 8,480]

17 minutes ago, Disco Stu said:

Bespin's crusade against mallet percussionists must be stopped.

 

[Incanus 5,713]

Just got my physical copy in the mail and watched the documentary, which is naturally familiar fare for a seasoned JW fan but it is always lovely to see Steven Spielberg and John Williams talking about their long collaboration together. Also the sessions footage was great to see. E.g. Williams' chuckle at Don Foster's playing in Viktor's Tale was a delightful little detail, the composer really appreciating the humour the musician injected into his performance.  

[Jay 37,289]

Yup!  The stories and anecdotes told are nothing special, but I really enjoyed all the footage of the musicians playing under Williams' baton.

[mstrox 6,647]

Any good quoteables about Schindler's List?

[Incanus 5,713]

Just now, mstrox said:

Any good quoteables about Schindler's List?

Nope. Not on this one. 

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Laurent Bouzerou must have cut that out because even he now knows that's seriously old.

[Incanus 5,713]

2 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

Laurent Bouzerou must have cut that out because even he now knows that's seriously old.

Could also be that since the interview mainly dealt with the new recording which didn't feature Schindler's List that anecdote didn't come up.

 

Oh who am I kidding?! It was cut out!

[mstrox 6,647]

Williams told the story nine times during the session recording, and nine were cut!

 

You think they'd at least leave three or four.

[Disco Stu 15,495]

I feel like I should be discussing this release more, I'm listening to it at least 3 times a day still, but I don't really have much to say beyond "Wonderful!"  which gets boring after a while.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

It's a compilation, so we have heard all this music before. It's just a new performance and some new arrangements.

[Bespin 8,480]

1 hour ago, Stefancos said:

It's a compilation, so we have heard all this music before. It's just a new performance and some new arrangements.

 

The new boxset is indeed a compilation... containing previously unreleased material.

 

But the new album, as sold separately, is a new album. Period. That's not a compilation.

 

It's the 141st solo album of John Williams.

 

By example when Simon Rattle record a new Beethoven album containing several pieces, it's not a compilation. It's a new Simon Rattle album.

 

There is a proper word for each thing.

[Disco Stu 15,495]

[Bespin 8,480]

9 minutes ago, Disco Stu said:

 

Tell me more about the vibraphonist, what's his name?

 

If he's well known, I'm sure I will found other bad critics that review his play...

[Joni Wiljami 1,206]

Is it possible that one guy is even more annoying than me? Just asking.

[Bryant Burnette 654]

11 hours ago, Bespin said:

By example when Simon Rattle record a new Beethoven album containing several pieces, it's not a compilation. It's a new Simon Rattle album.

 

That compiles new recordings of multiple pieces.  Thus, compilation.

[Faleel 5,340]

A soundtrack compiles cues from a score. Thus, compilation! 

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

6 hours ago, hornist said:

Is it possible that one guy is even more annoying than me? Just asking.

 

Several

[rough cut 1,714]

16 hours ago, Bespin said:

 

It's the 141st solo album of John Williams.

 

By example when Simon Rattle record a new Beethoven album containing several pieces, it's not a compilation. It's a new Simon Rattle album.

 

 

I agree with what is said here. A compilation of songs doesn't necessarily make it a compilation album.

 

A jazz artist would record an album of jazz standards, a cover album, with every song previously released by another artist, and that album would be a solo album in the artist's discography. That applies even if the artist covers his own songs.

 

If the songs on the album are newly recorded, it's a new, solo album.

 

Why is this a debate again?

[Incanus 5,713]

41 minutes ago, rough cut said:

Why is this a debate again?

All this is born of Bespin's ardent desire to catalogue John Williams releases with most precise nomenclature possible so that each definition for a release is unequivocal and correct and instantly understandable to every living being on the planet.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Ricard 2,242]

55 minutes ago, Incanus said:

All this is born of Bespin's ardent desire to catalogue John Williams releases with most precise nomenclature possible so that each definition for a release is unequivocal and correct and instantly understandable to every living being on the planet.

 

The "only" problem is, this kind of classification renders a discography extremely confusing in the case of a film music composer. It had never been done before, for a reason.

[Bespin 8,480]

28 minutes ago, Ricard said:

The "only" problem is, this kind of classification renders a discography extremely confusing in the case of a film music composer. It had never been done before, for a reason.

 

For me it's the same thing as doing a discography for an actor who also recorded albums as a singer, or the inverse.

 

On the web I found a very interresting discography of Leonard Bernstein, I would not have making it exactly like this.... but I think everything is here.... from his albums containing his compositions, to the ones he conducted.

 

The real problem, is that people here on JWfan, sees John Williams as ONLY a film score composer. Okay, it's the most important side of his career, but it's not the only one.

 

He's a classical composer too, a sucessfull conductor and well, he started his career as a piano player. 

 

I cover all these aspects in my discography (in fact, the "discography" is the link to all the aspects of his career), and still, it seems to shock many people here...

 

And @Ricard, I don't know what is so complicated about the discography I did for John Williams. The truth is, this is maybe the first time you see a real one. 

 

[Thor 7,471]

I think it has more to do with how you do it within the categories, Bespin.

 

For example, if I were a researcher and needed to find out the albums available for THE FURY, I would go to a listing of all Williams' films in chronological order, find the year 1978, find the film, click on it and then have all the various albums listed, from 1978 to 2013. I wouldn't think to scroll to 2013 to find the most recent reissue.

 

Also, if I were to find the albums for the violin concerto, I would again go to a listing of all his concert works in chronlogical order, find it at 1976, click on it and find all the recordings within.

 

Also -- while I realize conducting is a skill and artform -- I wouldn't think to separate between what he's conducted and not for many of these things. For example, if I wanted album info on NONE BUT THE BRAVE, I wouldn't think to click on a section that said 'soundtracks conducted by others'. Rather, I'd have it in the regular listing of his films, and then perhaps add a note there that it wasn't conducted by him.

 

I would also separate between his non-film and film work (whereas you have merged them into 'solo albums'), but again -- that's me.

 

Stuff like that.

 

I know you have your own ways of doing things, and I've kinda given up questioning your procedure in the last couple of years. At least you manage to gather a lot of albums, even if you have to navigate a bit to find them. That's great! Keep it up! But I don't think you should be surprised or offended when people question it. Rather, you should think "hey, I'm creating a resource that might prove useful for researchers. Let's hear what the feedback is, and what I can do to make things less confusing".

 

My two cents.

[Bespin 8,480]

@Thor Please stick to the documentation of the early career of JW, you do it well 

[Ricard 2,242]

28 minutes ago, Bespin said:

The real problem, is that people here on JWfan, sees John Williams as ONLY a movie score composer.

 

Even if that were true, that wouldn't be the problem with your classification.

 

28 minutes ago, Bespin said:

 

He's a classical composer too, a sucessfull conductor and well, he started his career as a piano player.

 

 

 

And that's exactly how his filmography should be classified: as a film composer, as a composer of concert works, as a conductor, etc.

[Bespin 8,480]

9 minutes ago, Ricard said:

 

And that's exactly how his filmography should be classified: as a film composer, as a composer of concert works, as a conductor, etc.

 

That's the real problem, you are all talking about a filmography, and that's what we find on all the websites about JW.

 

The main entries are always the movies, then they list the related albums (ex. http://www.soundtrackcollector.com/)

 

I did a DISCOgraphy. 

 

I'm so sorry you don't understand the difference!

[Ricard 2,242]

I meant discography of course.

 

Also, an original soundtrack recording is not a “solo album”. It’s a selection of music from a score that was composed and *recorded for a film*.

 

EDIT:

 

Here's a proper classification:

http://www.johnwilliams.org/recordings

[Thor 7,471]

34 minutes ago, Ricard said:

Here's a proper classification:

http://www.johnwilliams.org/recordings

 

Agreed. The perfect angle. It's just a shame that Jeff hasn't had the time to fill in the slots after he revamped his page.

[Bespin 8,480]

2 hours ago, Ricard said:

Here's a proper classification:

http://www.johnwilliams.org/recordings

 

No that's not.

 

Inevitably, when doing his discography section, this guy will come to some albums and wonder... where do I put them... in this category or in this category... or maybe in the two?

 

I know, I wanted to do it like this at first with my own website!!! But it quicly turned out to be very complicated... and at then end, pretty subjective and absurd.

 

And I know this website very well, his "compositions" page is already a mess, as many entries appears into more than one "list" or "sub-category". 

 

It's not the good way of doing it, but you have the right to think otherwise.

 

His discography will be a copy paste of mine, but where the albums will subjectively appears in several categories.  So there will be many doubles and an absence of the chronological aspect, and at then end, it will be a real mess.

 

Again, it will be a fan site like all the others... but not a discography.

 

The first album of John Williams is this one:

 

The John Towner Touch (1957, Kapp, KL-1055) While We're Young; Zigeuner; Wait Till You see Her; Bess, Oh Where's My Bess; One Love; The Most Beautiful Girl In The World; Diane; I'll take Romance; Dear To My Heart; Hello (John T. Williams); Tenderly; In A Little Spanish Town.

And here's the two latest ones:

 

The Spielberg/Williams Collaboration Part III (2017, Sony Classical, Digital release; Clark, Erdody, Foster, Higgins, Hooten, Valerio, Grubinger, Williams, Recording Arts O of LA) The Adventures of Mutt from "Indiana Jones and The Kingdom of the Crystal Skull"; Dry Your Tears, Afrika from "Amistad"; The BFG from "The BFG"; With Malice Toward None from "Lincoln"; The Duel from "The Adventures of Tintin"; A New Beginning from "Minority Report"; Escapades for Alto Saxophone and Orchestra from "Catch Me If You Can"; Marion's Theme from "Raiders of the Lost Ark"; Hymn to the Fallen from "Saving Private Ryan"; Dartmoor, 1912 from "War Horse"; Viktor's Tale from "The Terminal"; Prayer for Peace from "Munich"; Immigration and Building from "The Unfinished Journey"; With Malice Toward None from "Lincoln" (Alternate Version).

 

Stanley & Iris: The Deluxe Edition/Pete 'n' Tillie (1990/1972) (2017, Varèse Sarabande, VCL03171178) STANLEY & IRIS (1990): Stanley And Iris; The Bicycle; The Pink Sweater; Iris After Work; Stanley At Work; Looking After Papa; Entering The Library; Night Visit; Factory Work; Naming The Trees; Finding A Family; Lost In The Streets; Stanley's Invention; The Kitchen Table; Seeing The Baby; Reading Lessons; Growing Together; Putting It All Together; Letters; End Title; FILM VERSIONS: Stanley And Iris; Stanley At Work; Looking After Papa; Stanley's Invention; Putting It All Together; Letters; PETE ’N’ TILLIE (1972): Pete 'n' Tillie — Main Title; Afterglow; Marriage Book; Bedroom Scene; Vacation; For Robbie; Funeral; Hospital; End Title and End Cast; Love Theme. "Pete 'n' Tillie": Previously unreleased original score.

 

Turn that like you want in your head... these three albums are in the same list. The first is at the top, and the two others, at the end.

 

Now can we talk about the price and artwork of the new boxset?

[Ricard 2,242]

So, basically what you're saying is that all the JW discographies that have been created throughout the decades are wrong, and your "solo album" approach is, finally, the good one.

 

40 minutes ago, Bespin said:

I know, I wanted to do it like this at first with my own website!!! But it quickly turned out to be very complicated... and at then end, pretty subjective and absurd.

 

And I know this website very well, his "compositions" page is already a mess, as many entries appears into more than one "list" or "sub-category".

 

His discography will be a copy paste of mine, but where the albums will subjectively appears in several categories.  So there will be many doubles and an absence of the chronological aspect, and at then end, it will be a real mess.

 

Can you name examples of this supposed "mess"?

[Jay 37,289]

I agree with Ricard and disagree with Bespin about how to categorize things.  Bespin tries to treat John Williams like a band or pop artist, but you can't.  Film music is different.

[Bespin 8,480]

27 minutes ago, Ricard said:

So, basically what you're saying is that all the JW discographies that have been created throughout the decades are wrong, and your "solo album" approach is, finally, the good one.

 

I must admit "Solo" album is absolutely not relevant in JW case.

 

It's the wording I choose here as an opposition to the "compilation" and "collaborative" albums.

 

Usually, we can talk about album only, or "studio album".

 

I don't know of my approach is the only one that his good, but I made the first real discography of John Williams, yes.

 

And it allowed to find these numbers.

 

Studio albums	142
Compilation albums	32
Video albums	5
EPs	14
Singles	69
Expanded reissue albums	39
Collaborations	92

 

Can you challenge me on them, @Ricard?

 

All these 393 items (and many others) can be found on my website.  Can you tell me any other site that list them all in one single place?

 

21 minutes ago, Jay said:

I agree with Ricard and disagree with Bespin about how to categorize things.  Bespin tries to treat John Williams like a band or pop artist, but you can't.  Film music is different.

 

And you try to treat John Williams like a composer only. All the other aspects do not interest you.

[Thor 7,471]

44 minutes ago, Ricard said:

Can you name examples of this supposed "mess"?

 

I would also like to know this, Bespin. Can you name any examples of where Jeff will encounter problems in terms of where "the albums will subjectively appear in several categories"?

[Bespin 8,480]

I'm afraid we are getting boring for the people who want to discuss about the price of the new boxset and a way to get the DVD separately.

[Thor 7,471]

Don't worry about the others. Reactions to the box set will come in this thread as it happens, no worries. At this point, I find it more interesting about this 'mess' Jeff will allegedly encounter in terms of "doubles" etc. I'm not saying it to be a smartass; I'm genuinely curious. One or two examples would do, so I maybe understand what you mean.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

2 hours ago, Bespin said:

I'm afraid we are getting boring for the people who want to discuss about the price of the new boxset and a way to get the DVD separately.

 

Cop out! Several people have asked you to give examples. Are you not willing to do that?

[Bespin 8,480]

9 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

Cop out! Several people have asked you to give examples. Are you not willing to do that?

 

Com'on guys, you are not even able to understand the difference between an album and a compilation...

 

If you want to ask me specific questions about the discography of John Williams, please do it here:

 

 

[Miguel Andrade 1,261]

On my old site, I had a pretty large discography listing (along with catalogue numbers for different releases and all), closer to Jeff's one in terms or organization, and never run into having problems of double entries.

[Bespin 8,480]

45 minutes ago, Miguel Andrade said:

On my old site, I had a pretty large discography listing (along with catalogue numbers for different releases and all), closer to Jeff's one in terms or organization, and never run into having problems of double entries.

 

A website that I never saw.  And that doesn't seems to exist anymore. I wonder why?

 

Can you tell me, what "closer" means? I invite you to share your vision about an ideal John Williams discography on the discography thread I mentioned above.

[TownerFan 4,983]

Just now, Bespin said:

 

A website that I never saw.  And that doesn't exist anymore. I wonder why?

 

I heartily suggest you to stop being such a passive-aggressive asshole, especially toward well-respected members like Miguel.

[Bespin 8,480]

10 minutes ago, TownerFan said:

 

I heartily suggest you to stop being such a passive-aggressive asshole, especially toward well-respected members like Miguel.

 

Ah personal insults now... I was waiting for them...

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I guess what they say about French speaking Canadians is true.

[Bespin 8,480]

9 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

I guess what they say about French speaking Canadians is true.

 

Allow me to use one of your favorite line: Racist!

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Not really, just can't stand the French.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

44 minutes ago, Bespin said:

Ah personal insults now... I was waiting for them...

 

Correction: you were looking for them!

[Marian Schedenig 8,174]

9 hours ago, Bespin said:

The real problem, is that people here on JWfan, sees John Williams as ONLY a film score composer.@Ricard, I don't know what is so complicated about the discography I did for John Williams. The truth is, this is maybe the first time you see a real one.

 

They do?

[Bryant Burnette 654]

I think Bespin's discography is useful -- extremely useful -- if one is looking for the type of information he's presenting.  But it's not the only way to do such a thing, nor is it inherently superior to some other methods.

[Jay 37,289]

OMG, logic and reason!