Harry Potter - Unused Music Restored

[Incanus 5,713]

Interesting info Skelly! Thanks for sharing that bit about POA. What an awful suprise it must have been to discover you had scored the wrong cut of the film. Williams came out of that calamity in flying colours though. The score is ample testimony of that.

 

The term used is "striping", recording different orchestral sections separately. I guess it all stems from the desire to have greater (if not full) control of the music/sound aspects of the post production during the mixing.

 

E.g. many sections of the finale of Howard Shore's The Desolation of Smaug were striped when Peter Jackson wished for more control over the music elements when that part of the film was still in raw state up to the last minute of the final mix.

 

We actually have had a discussion of the practice before.

[TownerFan 4,983]

On ‎18‎/‎10‎/‎2016 at 6:26 PM, Skelly said:

It's astonishing to me to think that some - maybe even most - composers intend for their work to all be recorded separately: first the violins take their turn, then the next day it's horns, then it's woodwinds the next, etc. I guess reliance on the click track is pretty heavy these days.

 

Given the current landscape and methods of post-production, it's somewhat inevitable to prefer recording with striping. Sound mixing of a movie can become so layered and complex nowadays that the more control you have over all the single elements, the better is for sound mixers comply to the director's requests. The flipside of the coin is that nowadays some directors can become so control-freak over such small tiny details (like a harp glissando or a 15-seconds musical transition) that they're not able to trust anyone.

[Alex 2,833]

On 18/10/2016 at 5:26 PM, Skelly said:

It's astonishing to me to think that some - maybe even most - composers intend for their work to all be recorded separately: first the violins take their turn, then the next day it's horns, then it's woodwinds the next, etc. I guess reliance on the click track is pretty heavy these days.

 

I would absolutely hate this as a musician 

[oierem 151]

22 hours ago, TownerFan said:

 

Given the current landscape and methods of post-production, it's somewhat inevitable to prefer recording with striping. Sound mixing of a movie can become so layered and complex nowadays that the more control you have over all the single elements, the better is for sound mixers comply to the director's requests. The flipside of the coin is that nowadays some directors can become so control-freak over such small tiny details (like a harp glissando or a 15-seconds musical transition) that they're not able to trust anyone.

But on the other hand, we find it normal that directors are able to control small tiny details of script-writing, acting, editing, production design... Music is one of the only things in cinema that directors don't have absolute control: it is virtually given to them, and the directors don't have the ability to request specific changes, since they don't know the music language.

So, if you thing from the director's point of view (and not like a music fan), you should want more direct control over the music, including the ability to change things at your own will.

After all, music fans view film music as an art by itself,created by an artist (compmoser), but actually, it's an art that serves another art, created by another artist (the filmmaker)

[Disco Stu 15,495]

Very true, but film is also a collaborative art and my favorite directors tend to be ones who trust their collaborators.  A director is also a manager and a good manager knows that you shouldn't micromanage employees if you want them to give you their best work.

[Skelly 260]

On the one hand you think that a compromise should be reached between a director and his composer as to what can and should be stripped from any given cue; but at the same time, if I were a composer I'd have a hard time being able to agree which instruments or elements of a cue are "expendable".

[oierem 151]

9 hours ago, Skelly said:

On the one hand you think that a compromise should be reached between a director and his composer as to what can and should be stripped from any given cue; but at the same time, if I were a composer I'd have a hard time being able to agree which instruments or elements of a cue are "expendable".

 

And if you were the writer of a screenplay, would you be OK with the director deciding to change or cut lines without consulting you?

 

I think Williams and most composer are much more used to their music being altered in different ways than music fans are.

Just one of many examples: Williams asking Lucas if he wants to record a version of Duel of the Fates without the chorus (which would give Lucas the oportunity to remove entirely the most unique element of the cue!)

[Skelly 260]

And since this is a Harry Potter thread, I'd like to point out that the "Three-Note Loop" cue you can find on the sessions was almost certainly for the purpose of being cut up by the editors. I guess Williams's experience on The Phantom Menace taught him a lesson, and he wanted to be one step ahead this time!

[bollemanneke 3,337]

Interesting discussion here, never knew about Williams receiving the wrong cut! Since we've gone wildly off-topic anyway, has JW/Cuaron ever discussed the change of style direction from HP1 and 2 to the medieval-like 3?

[oierem 151]

3 minutes ago, bollemanneke said:

Interesting discussion here, never knew about Williams receiving the wrong cut! Since we've gone wildly off-topic anyway, has JW/Cuaron ever discussed the change of style direction from HP1 and 2 to the medieval-like 3?

 

I'm 99% sure that the "wrong cut" thing is just an exaggeration. Most probably, a scene was edited after the spotting session and the edits were not comunicated to Willliams.

[Alex 2,833]

5 hours ago, bollemanneke said:

Interesting discussion here, never knew about Williams receiving the wrong cut! Since we've gone wildly off-topic anyway, has JW/Cuaron ever discussed the change of style direction from HP1 and 2 to the medieval-like 3?

 

Unfortunately JW rarely seems to talk about Harry Potter for some reason. Either that or Im rubbish at finding interviews

[Skelly 260]

Here are all the interviews I've been able to find concerning Williams's work on Potter:

 

Williams adds musical magic to 'Harry Potter'

By Andy Seiler, USA TODAY

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/life/movies/2001-11-13-john-williams.htm

 

Williams casts spell for 'Potter' score

By Richard Dyer, The Boston Globe

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2001-11-15/features/0111150136_1_harry-potter-hogwarts-library-hogwarts-school

 

The Wizard of Film Scoring Tackles 'Harry Potter'

By Richard Dyer, The Boston Globe

https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1916&dat=20010526&id=r_pIAAAAIBAJ&sjid=oAUNAAAAIBAJ&pg=1290,3753985&hl=en

 

John Williams: Making ‘Harry Potter’s’ music magic

By Matt Wolf, CNN [according to my notes]

http://kwing.christiansonnet.org/news-scrap/culture_Harry-Potter.htm#_Toc183922012

 

William Ross on Adapting 'Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets'

By Ford Thaxton, Soundtrack Magazine

http://www.runmovies.eu/william-ross-on-adapting-harry-potter-and-the-chamber-of-secrets/

 

There seems to be an elusive interview he gave with the Chicago Sun-Times in 2003, in which he spent a part of it talking about 'Prisoner of Azkaban'. I swear I've seen the whole thing before, but I saved the bit in which he speaks about Potter.

Quote

Before arriving in Chicago, Williams was in London catching an early glimpse of the third Harry Potter film, which he is scoring for scheduled release next summer. "The principal photography is ending about now," he said "I'll record the music in March, so that leaves about two-and-one-half months to write almost a two-hour score. It's colossally tight. And after mid-March, there's another month or six week for mixing and dubbing. So I would say for a picture like that -- fairly long, with special effects -- we're talking about four or five months.''

 

I think he spent the rest of the article saying how he doesn't like shrinking post-production timetables.

 

As you can see, when the world was bursting with Potter fever in 2001, everyone wanted to have a chat with Williams (I think one article contradicts with another in saying where spotting took place). He was extremely busy during 2002 (and had a smaller role in that film's score) so didn't have much to say about that film. I have no idea why I can't find anything about 'Azkaban' though! Maybe the novelty of it all had worn off by then and no one thought to interview him.

If anyone knows of any interviews he gave for newspapers or magazines, those would be fun to read as well.

[bollemanneke 3,337]

What does that six weeks for dubbing bit mean? Is that when the international choirs were performing Double Trouble? Why would JW be involved there?

[Skelly 260]

Maybe he just said "dubbing" in order to be encompassing?

[Alex 2,833]

It's frustrating because I'd love to hear more about POA

[Skelly 260]

In the HP music documentary, a precious few minutes are spent on the music of POA (with sound bites from Williams, Cuarón, and even William Ross). I can transcribe the interesting bits sometime soon.

 

I felt like most of the feature is unfortunately focused on OotP and HBP.

[Alex 2,833]

Where was this documentary shown/featured?

[Skelly 260]

It was a bonus feature on the "Ultimate Edition" of Goblet of Fire. Figures they'd package it with the worst of the eight films!

[Not Mr. Big 4,639]

Goblet of Fire is far better than any of the Yates films.  

[Skelly 260]

The pacing of GoF always throws me for a loop. It starts off with that dream of the old guy, then it cuts to Harry at the Burrow. As you're filling in the blanks in your mind ('okay, I guess Harry was able to spend the summer with the Weasleys this year') it suddenly cuts to them in the woods for some reason. Harry and co. touch a boot and are transported somewhere. Eventually you figure out that they're here to watch a Quidditch game, but before you know it the game's over and they're in a tent.

 

The whole film feels like this, where you're constantly playing catch-up and trying to process everything that's being thrown at you. I'm no fan of Yates but at least his films are (slightly) easier to follow.

 

Visually, GoF is a beautiful film though.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

Just now, Skelly said:

The pacing of GoF always throws me for a loop. It starts off with that dream of the old guy, then it cuts to Harry at the Burrow. As you're filling in the blanks in your mind ('okay, I guess Harry was able to spend the summer with the Weasleys this year') it suddenly cuts to them in the woods for some reason. Harry and co. touch a boot and are transported somewhere. Eventually you figure out that they're here to watch a Quidditch game, but before you know it the game's over and they're in a tent.

 

The whole film feels like this, where you're constantly playing catch-up and trying to process everything that's being thrown at you. I'm no fan of Yates's but at least they're (slightly) easier to follow.

 

Yes!

 

GOF feels like a lengthy trailer for the actual film that was never released.

 

Just now, Skelly said:

Visually, GoF is a beautiful film though.

 

No!

[Skelly 260]

At least GoF has color! The visuals of OotP are completely flaccid.

[Alex 2,833]

Always thought they should have split GOF

[bollemanneke 3,337]

Does the story allow a split though?

[Skelly 260]

I think that the part just following the completion of the 1st task offers a good stopping point. Harry and Ron have repaired their friendship, so it ends on a happy note in that respect; at the same time Harry has two more challenges to surpass, which adds anticipation for part 2.

[Disco Stu 15,495]

Not that I want to see this thread pulled into another Potter ranking argument, but I agree with whoever thinks GoF is great.  My 2nd favorite Potter film and easily by far has the best non-Williams score.

[Skelly 260]

Since Alex asked (sort of), here are all the sound bites given for Prisoner of Azkaban. Unfortunately the nature of the feature is such that 'real' information is scant, and anything and everything is presented in sound bites from these interviews. I imagine these people all had a lot to say and only a precious few seconds were retained for the final product. At least we got what we got.

 

On 'Aunt Marge's Waltz':

Williams: The third Harry Potter film... there were a few off-the-edges experiments in that thing... we just thought a sort of grand oom-pah-pah, blown-up waltz would be fun to do. When we think of a waltz we think of it being light and floating. This is a waltz that is a bit leaden! *chuckles*

 

On the 'Knight Bus' sequence:

Cuaròn: We were discussing what to do with the Knight Bus, and I said, 'Well, what about if we go and we depart a little bit and go a little acid jazz?'... And it was so much fun, the scoring of that. He had a big huge brass band. The biggest brass band I'd ever seen in my life, playing all this music that is funny, is spooky! It's a really bizarre piece of music.

 

William Ross: John is a terrific jazz pianist. He's somebody with a tremendous command of the vocabulary of jazz.

 

Marcia Crayford: John brought in saxophones... there was an accordion so you get this wonderful squeezy noise when the Knight Bus does this [makes flattening motion].

 

Williams: When we recorded the music with the orchestra, I thought Alfonso would tear his hair our and say, 'What is this crazy thing?'; he loved it. It was the quintessential piece of silliness.

 

On 'Double Trouble':

Cuaròn: When we were going to establish the new year at Hogwarts, we had the idea of involving a choir. And we had the kids singing, and there were some toads that were doing, like, some of the rhythms. And we were thinking about what would be the text, and... I said, 'Well, there's the Double Trouble that one of the witches sing in "Macbeth". And when I suggested that, John Williams, he [rings?] me and says, 'Okay, this is the one. This is it.'... And it was so extraordinary when he did that actually; that became the tagline when they were promoting the film. In the posters is "Something Wicked This Way Comes".

 

Emma Watson: I remember particularly watching the trailer, that that was the beginning of it. I remember that being really eerie, and ominous, and exciting and dark, and that getting me excited to see it.

 

On 'Buckbeak's Flight' [ostensibly]:

Williams: The performance of orchestras in films... when they are infused with some magic, like the great live performance, it will do something for the film, I firmly believe... But if you turn the lights out and can't see, and you turn the vocals off, and all you hear is the orchestra, you realize you're hearing a world class performance; a virtuosic performance that supports these scenes, these characters, and locations... the action: flying and so on. The orchestra is flying with them.

[bollemanneke 3,337]

GOF is indeed a great film and a fantastic score. It's the score that made me appreciate film music.

[Bilbo 3,709]

3 hours ago, bollemanneke said:

GOF is indeed a great film and a fantastic score. It's the score that made me appreciate film music.

 

It was my first Potter score on cd! It probably is my favourite Non-Williams' score but I am also very partial to DH1. 

[TheUlyssesian 2,473]

17 hours ago, alextrombone94 said:

Always thought they should have split GOF

 

I agree. More than deathly hallows, goblet needed to be split. It has the most elaborate plot of the 7 books,  and would have been allowed to properly develop in 2 parts.

 

Deathly hallows they split not for plot reasons but for action scenes. 

[bollemanneke 3,337]

But the plot of GOF was executed way better than both DH1 and 2. For heaven's sake, they don't even stress why those stupid Hallows are important. They're totally sidelined.

[Skelly 260]

The most confusing Death Hallows moment for me is in the graveyard scene, when they devote a moment to Hermione looking at one of the Peverell graves. I will never understand why they did that; the three brothers in the tale are never identified as having that name, nor, as bollemanneke said, are the Deathly Hallows even brought up again until Harry somehow finds himself holding the Resurrection Stone. The editing was incredibly uncouth for those two films.

[Bilbo 3,709]

3 hours ago, Skelly said:

The most confusing Death Hallows moment for me is in the graveyard scene, when they devote a moment to Hermione looking at one of the Peverell graves. I will never understand why they did that; the three brothers in the tale are never identified as having that name, nor, as bollemanneke said, are the Deathly Hallows even brought up again until Harry somehow finds himself holding the Resurrection Stone. The editing was incredibly uncouth for those two films.

 

In the Lovegood house Hermione mentions the mark being on a grave in GH. She asks Lovegood if the Peverell name means anything and he says the three names of the brothers and says they're the inspiration behind the tale.

Its in the film! 

[Alex 2,833]

The most confusing part of the DH films (for non readers) is why Harry has the shard of mirror.

[TheUlyssesian 2,473]

8 hours ago, bollemanneke said:

But the plot of GOF was executed way better than both DH1 and 2. For heaven's sake, they don't even stress why those stupid Hallows are important. They're totally sidelined.

 

Even the book does a very poor job with the hallows and sidelines them too. It's like she suddenly came up with them and tried to hastily shove it in.

 

The 7th book is extremely poorly written, feels more like a rough first draft. And the movie kinda mirrors that.

 

I think the movies fail in one major way that is that if you haven't read the book, they don't make head or tale. I have some friends who tried to watch DH 1 directly and it made no sense whatsoever.

 

I think for obvious reasons, the most stand-alone film is probably the first.

[Disco Stu 15,495]

In my ever so humble opinion, it was pretty much downhill for the books after Goblet of Fire, which is my favorite of the books.

[TheUlyssesian 2,473]

24 minutes ago, Disco Stu said:

In my ever so humble opinion, it was pretty much downhill for the books after Goblet of Fire, which is my favorite of the books.

 

This exactly. She blew her load, so to say, with Goblet, the books never were really the same after that. 5th is terrible, 6th recovers a bit and then 7th is terrible again. It's like her genius for plotting completely departed her. 

[bollemanneke 3,337]

I thought 5 was the only bad book. The hallows aren't sidelined in the book, I think. The whole cathartic conversation with Dumbledore is about them. Another film scene that doesn't make any sense.

[Skelly 260]

I added four more clips to Philosopher's Stone: Flying 1, Flying 2, Christmas, and The Dark Forest.

[crlbrg 381]

Sorry to revive an old thread, but I think the "Lonely First Night" track is another gem which got axed in HP1. (Not that the music used doesn't fit well)

[bollemanneke 3,337]

Actually, not the whole cue. The last chord is retained.

[Manakin Skywalker 4,891]

Time to revive this thread yet again!

 

Here is the opening part of "Aunt Marge's Waltz (Alternate)"

Aunt Marge's Waltz (Alternate Opening)