Melodies of partial goodness

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

I give you three examples of melodies that suffer, in my estimation, from a type of tonal schizophrenia, resulting in an initial phrase or set of phrases which promise more, or something other, than what the subsequent phrase or phrases deliver.  Well, two of those, and then a third which seems simply to be a lazy conclusion of an awesome riff.  Anyone else have this experience with anything?

 

 

 

 

[ChrisAfonso 186]

I like a lot of Giacchino's music, but it bothers me a bit that this description imho fits a lot of his themes. Great hook/motif, bland conclusion (often by too much rhythmic repetition). Sometimes it works great (when the theme itself is more minimalistic in style), oftentimes, less so. It's as if you can confidently predict the final phrase after listening to the initial ones - a feat that would be near impossible with many Williams themes.

[publicist 4,643]

Two surrogate examples for a lot of Goldsmith's later bridges that often come with this rushed 'be done with it' feel:

 

 

 

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

49 minutes ago, ChrisAfonso said:

I like a lot of Giacchino's music, but it bothers me a bit that this description imho fits a lot of his themes. Great hook/motif, bland conclusion (often by too much rhythmic repetition). Sometimes it works great (when the theme itself is more minimalistic in style), oftentimes, less so. It's as if you can confidently predict the final phrase after listening to the initial ones - a feat that would be near impossible with many Williams themes.

 

Gia's themes are like cheap Merlot from Chile or South Africa.

 

They lack the texture, the refinement, the depth of an estate wine.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

No McDonald's analogy?

[publicist 4,643]

They ave the cheep taste of en wheat bun full of shiit. 

[Quintus 5,399]

Is Giacchino the most condiment analogised film composer in history? 

[Jay 37,353]

Only by Steef

[Bilbo 3,709]

He's like New Coke. 

[BloodBoal 7,538]

He's like Pepsi! Similar in a superficial way to Coke, but clearly not as good!

[Not Mr. Big 4,639]

The already-mentioned John Carter is the most egregious offender I can think of but I'd add Patrick Doyle's main theme for Eragon.  It starts off with a pleasant (if syrupy)  melodic hook but then descends into a completely unrelated b-theme.

[Romão 2,274]

I'll probably get crucified for this, but as I think the piece is for the most part fantastic, the resolution of the theme always seemed half baked to me:

 

 

[publicist 4,643]

First world problem!

[ChrisAfonso 186]

 

anyway...

--------------------------------

 

I know, it's Zimmer... but inside the minimalistic power anthem style this theme does indeed build up momentum and excitement, at least until the 4th phrase, where he already has landed on the tonic, and can't be arsed to come up with a better conclusion than landing on it a second time, via a tiny detour to the neighboring VII chord.

Actually, there's another example directly after that - the more triumphant, expanded thematic statement at 2:55 - augmenting the motivic leap an extra 4th upwards... just to fall back to the original conclusion of the theme, as apparently the inspiration has run out halfway through...

 

Compare this part from Batman Begins:

A very minor difference, but now the theme actually seems to lead somewhere.

 

[Gnome in Plaid 219]

1 hour ago, ChrisAfonso said:

I know, it's Zimmer... but inside the minimalistic power anthem style this theme does indeed build up momentum and excitement, at least until the 4th phrase, where he already has landed on the tonic, and can't be arsed to come up with a better conclusion than landing on it a second time, via a tiny detour to the neighboring VII chord.

Actually, there's another example directly after that - the more triumphant, expanded thematic statement at 2:55 - augmenting the motivic leap an extra 4th upwards... just to fall back to the original conclusion of the theme, as apparently the inspiration has run out halfway through...

 

Compare this part from Batman Begins:

A very minor difference, but now the theme actually seems to lead somewhere.

 

That's basically the problem with the latter two scores in a nutshell.  Zimmer wanted to emphasize the "shit's getting dark" aspects of the movies by never playing the main "heroic" themes in full statements again, so you get these really unfulfilling partial melodies that don't really go anywhere.

 

So while there's plenty to love in the subsequent scores (especially The Dark Knight, although I might be the only person here who likes "Why So Serious?"), you don't get anything in the action music that compares to, say, this:

 

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

I don't think Bruce's theme works in an action context. I never quite got why it even appeared there in the first place. It's best left to the broad, elegiac renditions and that extremely stirring appearance during the training montage in the first film.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

Williams' Winter Olympics theme. The fanfare is cool and the bridge part with the choir later on is awesome. But everything else is just kinda "meh".

[TheUlyssesian 2,478]

On 11/21/2016 at 8:55 PM, Prerecorded Briefing said:

I give you three examples of melodies that suffer, in my estimation, from a type of tonal schizophrenia, resulting in an initial phrase or set of phrases which promise more, or something other, than what the subsequent phrase or phrases deliver.  Well, two of those, and then a third which seems simply to be a lazy conclusion of an awesome riff.  Anyone else have this experience with anything?

 

 

 

I think this is a magnificent theme frankly. A very good theme, a franchise-anchoring theme if there had been a franchise. My only reservation - there isn't more of it. There is NO INTERLUDE or BRIDGE.

 

Now this just an aesthetic preference - but for a theme to have extended performances and be pleasurable, it has to have a bridge/interlude (and if we are lucky it will be quite good and of an equal quality), or a B part. SOMETHING basically.

 

So while I don't have an issue that it ends imperfectly or is partially good, my issue is there's not more to it.

 

You know why there aren't great concert suites these days? Because nobody flipping writes themes worthy of concert suites. There's a 2 minute something concert suite of his John Carter theme - but its just that one section repeating.

 

---

 

Now to the original question of the post... let me offer up this theme which always bothered me.

 

 

The High And The Mighty by Timokin.

 

It starts out as a beautiful melancholy theme and has such a jaunty ending. It is frankly irritating that such a great first phrase is ruined by everything else that follows.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

I've never been a fan of Tiomkin. He didn't have the right hair for a composer. There wasn't enough hair on his head because he was balding, but then he wasn't bald enough. Just this awful thing swiped over the top of his head where either hair or baldness should have been.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

His combover was his downfall.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

3 hours ago, TheUlyssesian said:

I think this is a magnificent theme frankly. A very good theme, a franchise-anchoring theme if there had been a franchise.

 

I like you, TheUlyssesian. I shall cheer for you.

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

Your enthusiasm is misplaced, Bowl. It's a terrible, bland theme. Sad!

I reckon that one good tune from Tomorrowland is what it should have been. Then we'd have JC, a decent score with a great theme and a disgraceful recording, and Tomorrowland, a crummy score with no worthy themes to speak of. That would make more sense.

[Quintus 5,399]

12 hours ago, ChrisAfonso said:

 

 

Ironically, the final Uncharted score was the weakest.   

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

13 hours ago, ChrisAfonso said: