Jump to content

The John Williams Jurassic Park Collection from La-La Land MUSIC Discussion


Jay

Recommended Posts

16 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

Madness!

There is an error in the world!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, Incanus said:

I love how there is now that quieter "breather" middle portion starting from A Tree for My Bed to the cue To the Maintanance Shed  which is where the explosive action starts and doesn't really let go until the end credits.

 

Yes!

 

 

 

1 hour ago, Quintus said:

Sorry to keep banging on about the extended Rescuing Sarah cue, but is it known whether the newly released music which scores Eddie's death was a pick-up insert or is this track we now have the original whole cue as recorded by Williams as originally intended? If so, it begs the question as to why on earth the OST version edited the moment out in the first place. 

 

It's the original full cue as recorded by Williams.  He sliced a minute out of the middle for the OST.

 

Neither Jurassic Park score has any Inserts or Revisions, actually  - surprising for huge summer blockbuster scores!

 

(Apart from the alternate 14 second opening to the Lost World concert arrangement, I mean).

 

 

 

1 hour ago, Quintus said:

Hmm, it's been ages and I can't really recall any other highlights from cues which were puzzlingly removed from the middle of the cue for the ost. When it is done, stuff cuts off annoyingly short, generally. 

 

Williams has literally been doing this for decades and The Lost World was no exception, nor the last time he did it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

34 minutes ago, Jay said:

It's the original full cue as recorded by Williams.  He sliced a minute out of the middle for the OST. 

 

This answered my question, thanks. 

 

I can understand when certain parts of a cue are jettisoned for an OST album release, but normally it's because the music affects track listening flow or is just plain redundant. But this moment in Rescuing Sarah is the best friggin' part!

 

It's madness. Or is John Williams just a sadistic bastard who takes great pleasure in ruining fan expectations? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think it's just a case of one man's treasure being another man's trash. Maybe he personally didn't like that part as much, or at least felt the pace of the track kept up better without it. Really, we'll probably never know why. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's like that fanfare from ROTS's "It Can't Be"...if not the best part of that cue, it's at least ONE of the best, and it was removed for the OST. Makes no sense. Praise the film score gods for video games and boutique labels!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Been listening to this since Friday and love how pristine the sound is. Amused to listen to Monster on the Loose and hear one trombone player holding the very first note a little little longer than the rest of the section. My kinda guy! haha 

 

In all seriousness though, what an awesome set. Haven't had time to chime in here yet but got a kick reading through this thread at comparing comments to the recording. Fun stuff!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, BloodBoal said:

It wouldn't be the first time a composer removed the best part of a cue. Lots of example with other soundtracks and composers.

 

The Gremlins concert suite had this facepalm-moment when Goldsmith inserted the small-town theme from 'Late for Work' but cut out the totally badass bridge section.

 

Yeah, rebels without a cause.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Is it me, or anyone else who got the CDs already noticed that the "lesser" 44.1kHz/16bit version actually sounds MUCH better than "superior" 192kHz/24bit version?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

34 minutes ago, phbart said:

Is it me, or anyone else who got the CDs already noticed that the "lesser" 44.1kHz/16bit version actually sounds MUCH better than "superior" 192kHz/24bit version?

 

That's because this edition was mastered by someone who actually listens to film scores!

53 minutes ago, crocodile said:

So did MV post cover scans for both scores anywhere yet?

 

Karol

 

No, but he should!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So, this whole 24bit and gazillions of kHz thing is just a marketing gimmick after all? Well, at least that's what I always thought, anyway.

 

I read somewhere that it's just useful as a production format like recording, mixing, mastering and stuff like that. But for the end users like us, it's totally nonsense... 44.1kHz/16bit is more than suitable. I think I saw a video explainining objectively why. I'll try to find it...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, I think everything in this release sounds louder and more detailed, and the dynamic range is higher (if Adobe Audition is detailing it correctly). Not every engineer can make music like this sounding louder and more detailed and still deliver it with even greater dynamic range than before. Kudos to Matessino for achiving this!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Greater dynamic range than before? I haven't studied the waveforms (yet), but it seems patently obvious to me just from listening that both scores underwent much heavier compression for this release than for the OSTs. I never touched the volume once in the quiet parts, and I heard the loudest moments "crunch" back down to 0 dB.

 

Color me skeptical, though I suppose I could be wrong.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, phbart said:

Well, I think everything in this release sounds louder and more detailed, and the dynamic range is higher (if Adobe Audition is detailing it correctly). Not every engineer can make music like this sounding louder and more detailed and still deliver it with even greater dynamic range than before. Kudos to Matessino for achiving this!

 

I love this release, but I really doubt it has greater range. Oh and I have numbers to back that up.

 

http://dr.loudness-war.info/album/list?artist=&album=jurassic+park

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, Luke Skywalker said:

Yeah... with the teeth problem they could at least release a digital edition for itunes...

I want my anatomically correct T-Rex skeleton on a physical booklet cover, teeth and all. Digital version would only be a temporary substitute!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Luke Skywalker said:

well... the skeleton was never accurate...but that doesnt matter :P

I am sure it is as accurate as the Velociraptors.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, amh1219 said:

I love this release, but I really doubt it has greater range. Oh and I have numbers to back that up.

 

http://dr.loudness-war.info/album/list?artist=&album=jurassic+park

 

I have no idea what any of those numbers mean.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, Datameister said:

Greater dynamic range than before? I haven't studied the waveforms (yet), but it seems patently obvious to me just from listening that both scores underwent much heavier compression for this release than for the OSTs. I never touched the volume once in the quiet parts, and I heard the loudest moments "crunch" back down to 0 dB.

 

Color me skeptical, though I suppose I could be wrong.

 

6 hours ago, amh1219 said:

 

I love this release, but I really doubt it has greater range. Oh and I have numbers to back that up.

 

http://dr.loudness-war.info/album/list?artist=&album=jurassic+park

 

I'm at work now, but latter I'd happy to post printscreens of the Adobe Audition readings of all three releases, so you can draw your own conclusions...

 

Edit: How about if I open a new topic? We're going 30 pages now on this one already...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 hours ago, phbart said:

Is it me, or anyone else who got the CDs already noticed that the "lesser" 44.1kHz/16bit version actually sounds MUCH better than "superior" 192kHz/24bit version?

 

You're comparing apples to oranges.  Let me break it down:

 

In 2013 Universal had Shawn Murphy's analog recording of the recording sessions transferred anew at 24bit/192khz.  Then, Ramiro Belgardt edited the cues into the new album program, and his program was mastered by Patricia Sullivan.  That was sold at 24/96, 24/192, and 16/441.

 

For the new CD, Matessino was given the 2013 transfers of the recording sessions, and he edited the cues himself, and then mastered the cues himself.  None of Belgardt's or Sullivan's work was used at all.  Matessino's master is currently only sold on redbook CDs, but theoretically Universal could sell his 24/192 master on HDtracks too if they wanted.

 

Anyways, if you like the sound of the new CD better than the 2013 Anniversary edition, that's directly a result of preferring Matessino's mastering over Sullivan's mastering, and not anything to do with bitrates.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

And Ludlow's End, while it's not new, I feel like I listen to it more now than it's not connected to an unrelated minute and a half of buildup.  It REALLY rocks in its proper place right after Visitor In San Diego!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The score to TLW seems to cover almost the whole movie. The impression of the old album to me always was that there were a lot of murky stuff interrupted by some cool bongo action while the whole thing as it now plays out is a behemoth of not just 'more action' but also so many different techniques utilized (from rhythmic layering over lots of aleatoric passages to orchestral latin dances) it's hard to keep track of all that is happening in each cue (i actually needed Incanus's analysis to catch all the parts that weren't used in the movie at all).

 

It's cool to have but it's also a clear offspring of post-1995 Williams: more modernist/sophisticated, less sing-along, but as such clearly the most successful incarnation of Williams kinetic action scoring since (the jungle setting fills in for a lot of the gaps left by missing thematic hooks, i. e. in the later Star Wars'es).

 

Why the old album seemed so relatively tame i don't know but i would sure add that to the misses of the era.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

40 minutes ago, Jay said:

And Ludlow's End, while it's not new, I feel like I listen to it more now than it's not connected to an unrelated minute and a half of buildup.  It REALLY rocks in its proper place right after Visitor In San Diego!

 

The same is true with 'The Raptor Attack' from JP. It now serves as a great prelude to 'T-Rex Rescue & Finale' and the two tracks flow together very nicely. So much better having it there instead of after 'Journey To The Island' which was crazy sequencing on the OST.

 

In fact, the three track powerhouse of 'Hungry Raptor', 'Raptor Attack' and 'T-Rex Rescue' provide a fantastic showcase for the carnivore theme. It makes the quiet lullaby version of the main theme in the end credits even more welcome after the mayham that proceeded it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, dfenton85 said:

The same is true with 'The Raptor Attack' from JP. It now serves as a great prelude to 'T-Rex Rescue & Finale' and the two tracks flow together very nicely. So much better having it there instead of after 'Journey To The Island' which was crazy sequencing on the OST.

 

Actually classic MUSICAL sequencing to offer you variety and development and not have a barrage of similar action music coming at you in the last 15 minutes. But it has been proven futile time and time again to hammer that into soundtracknerd's brain and look who's won the battle. So yes, all of you have now the all-important film structure, repetition be damned.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

"The Raptor AttacK" isn't action music though, its a suspenseful buildup to the action finale in "T-Rex Rescue and Finale".

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's still the 3rd or fourth dissonant cue featuring the horror music in a row (if i count the raptor attack, fence and shed cues now all running back to back). With another 8 minutes coming. It's really not good sequencing, music-wise.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm sorry, I don't really follow

 

2-02 To The Maintenance Shed - suspence / buildup track with brief action bit towards the end

2-03 High Wire Stunts - action track

2-04 Hungry Raptor - action first half, suspsense second half

2-05 The Raptor Attack - suspense / buildup track

2-06 T-Rex Rescue And Finale - continuing of suspenseful start, until eventually becoming action blowout track

 

The flow is right to me.....

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

With modern technology you can spin these tracks into any order you want. A rather moot point. Some like it  more "musical" others like it 4 dark action cues in a row. I have never understood what is the huge hubbub about it? Especially when you can always go back to the OST if the C&C doesn't fit your sense of ebb and flow of this music. At least with C&C you can now include music you actually thing would be nice to have on the programme that you previously didn't get on the OST. I really don't know why it is such an anathema.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That's a whole different matter than to claim that the new album cut makes more sense.

 

As for the last quarter of the cd, it's basically one long flow of dissonant/kinetic/suspense scoring out of the same building blocks. 

 

Film composers, at least in the good old times, didn't construct such albums. At least not if there isn't sufficient variation in tone and tempo. I understand why Williams and others would shuffle it around.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, publicist said:

That's a whole different matter than to claim that the new album cut makes more sense.

 

As for the last quarter of the cd, it's basically one long flow of dissonant/kinetic/suspense scoring out of the same building blocks. 

 

Film composers, at least in the good old times, didn't construct such albums. At least not if there isn't sufficient variation in tone and tempo. I understand why Williams and others would shuffle it around.

Yes of course you can see why the film composers rearrange their scores on albums into what they consider to be an interesting listening experience with peaks and valleys to maintain aural interest. C&C makes sense from the narrative point of view with such thematic scores, the film narrative point of view. which might not always mean perfect flow of the music in those terms you mean. To some it does, to some it does not.

 

But we hold these truths to be self-evident by now, don't we.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I of course don't care because i delete half of the cues anyway (i seldom keep more than 15-40 minutes per score with TLW being the latest exception) but i don't understand how so many guys here would want to listen to, say, the 30 minutes finale of 'The Mummy Returns' or 'Van Helsing' which really are the same cues just with a few notes shuffled here or there. But that's obviously exactly what people want.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I suppose it depends how much emphasis the listener places on musical storytelling, i.e following the movie's story.

 

The problem I have with the OST is that I'm so familiar with the movie, and therefore the raptor music appearing after the journey to the island feels very wrong to me. I want the music to follow the same three act structure of the movie even if that means the carnivore theme material mostly appears in a block at the end (which doesn't bother me at all).

 

In general, I prefer a chronological representation of a score because a good score follows the flow of the film and therefore has a good musical storytelling experience.

 

Having said that, the only edit from the OST that I'll retain in my playlist is 'Falling Car' at the end of 'Incident at Isla Nublar'. After 20 years, I am so used to that edit and I can't get used to the track ending with that chanting male voice which I always loved and increases the excitement for me rather than ending it. There is no thematic material in 'Falling Car' so I don't feel it interrupts the musical storytelling. Once the cue transitions to Muldoon and Ellie searching for Alan and the kids, I'll cut out the rest and place it in its proper place.

 

'The Whomping Willow and the Snowball Fight' is another rare example of where I prefer two cues from different points in the film merged together into a single track. I'll retain that edit too if we ever get a complete release of POA.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Often i do my own cuts, i.e. if there's two cues with material of interest surrounded by long suspense parts. There is so much to lose in film music because it's just not that musical. Philosophically speaking i like those old Polydor 40 minute albums, just that MY 40-minute albums usually differ in selection. The only 'classic' older album i accept is 'Star Trek TMP' because it's just perfect (the Columbia record).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So would you do that with classical ballet scores too?  Edit them down to suites?  What about recapitulations and coda, let's just delete them all?   Of course not.  OST's should be treated the same.

 

 

Anyway...  were the rumors of different takes from the original OST vs. the 20th anniversary true in the end?  What takes are the LLL version from if true?  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Guidelines.