Josh500 1,615 Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 4 hours ago, Incanus said: Well I have missed that all these years. Where does he quote the music from the JP kitchen scene? Timestamps please. There's a moment in "Raptor Attack" at 0:36 onwards where the deep brass notes playing the carnivore motif are accompanied by this high and fast plucking sound... How is this achieved? Is that violins being plucked? Don't know if Luke Skywalker is talking about this, but the texture of the latter part of this track is kind of reminiscent of the moment in the "Compys Dine" track, when Eddie is killed. Like the flute outburst at 2:37. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Skywalker 1,795 Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 4 hours ago, Incanus said: Well I have missed that all these years. Where does he quote the music from the JP kitchen scene? Timestamps please. The raptor attack 0:00-0:10. This mimicks the raptors breathing-purring and gait.... In truth..it is a fast paced version of the impact thremors of the T-Rex chase.... In "The trek" (my mistake, it thought it was "the compys dine" from the ost) it is throughtout from 4:04-end. Once i believed in the OST this music and edit, and was music for the grass raptor scene, (it fits rather well with the raptors approaching silently to the group of humans) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artguy360 1,843 Posted December 30, 2016 Share Posted December 30, 2016 I've been listening to the two scores since Christmas and I am slowly realizing that "The Hunt" from the LW score is probably one of JW's all time great film cues. Listening to it more and more, my appreciation of it as an action cue with great use of the film's main theme keeps rising. Its getting up there with cues like "The Desert Chase" from Raiders and others. Taikomochi and Jay 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 30, 2016 Share Posted December 30, 2016 The films main theme? I know there's a similarity, but I never considered The Hunt theme to be a deliberate variation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh500 1,615 Posted December 30, 2016 Share Posted December 30, 2016 5 hours ago, artguy360 said: I've been listening to the two scores since Christmas and I am slowly realizing that "The Hunt" from the LW score is probably one of JW's all time great film cues. Listening to it more and more, my appreciation of it as an action cue with great use of the film's main theme keeps rising. Its getting up there with cues like "The Desert Chase" from Raiders and others. Yes. One of my all-time favorite and one of the best action tracks, no doubt. But this one is basically the exact same version as found on the OS album, so no surprises here. Currently, I can't stop listening to... Fire at Camp and Corporate Helicopters Ludlow's Speech Reading the Map Spilling Petrol and Horning in Ripples On the Glass Rescuing Sarah (Extended) The last two always one after the other. Man, the complete TLW is really a dream come true. It's like getting a new Star Wars or Harry Potter score. Yes, I'm that happy about this release!! Taikomochi 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Skywalker 1,795 Posted December 30, 2016 Share Posted December 30, 2016 3 hours ago, Stefancos said: The films main theme? I know there's a similarity, but I never considered The Hunt theme to be a deliberate variation. But it must be, never thought about this but it makes a lot of sense, and i definately can hear a variation of the theme. Not meaning all the cue is a variation of the main theme, just that it quotes it like many other williams action cues. Its' not a "in your face quotation" as usual, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh500 1,615 Posted December 30, 2016 Share Posted December 30, 2016 4 minutes ago, Luke Skywalker said: But it must be, never thought about this but it makes a lot of sense, and i definately can hear a variation of the theme. Not meaning all the cue is a variation of the main theme, just that it quotes it like many other williams action cues. Its' not a "in your face quotation" as usual, though. I remember we've had this discussion once or twice on this forum before. And no, I still believe "The Hunt" doesn't contain the main theme or even a variation of it. It would make sense, sure, but JW chose to write a separate theme for this scene. Unless you can give us the exact timestamps? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steb74 53 Posted December 30, 2016 Share Posted December 30, 2016 You don't need timestamps, just listen to it .....it's clear as day! artguy360 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artguy360 1,843 Posted December 30, 2016 Share Posted December 30, 2016 Well now I'm confused. I've always heard The Hunt as an action cue built on variations of the Lost World theme. From the percussion that opens the track which nearly mirrors the percussion that opens the main theme to the brass motif which is very similar to the melody of the LW theme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 30, 2016 Share Posted December 30, 2016 That's why it's a pity Mike Matessino did the liner notes! Doug Adams would have gotten 10 thematic connections out of The Hunt! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artguy360 1,843 Posted December 30, 2016 Share Posted December 30, 2016 Who wrote the liner notes for the SW Special Edition OST releases? Those were the most detailed I've ever read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,346 Posted December 30, 2016 Author Share Posted December 30, 2016 Mike Matessino. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,714 Posted December 30, 2016 Share Posted December 30, 2016 56 minutes ago, artguy360 said: Who wrote the liner notes for the SW Special Edition OST releases? Those were the most detailed I've ever read. Matessino. But you obviously haven't read e.g. the LotR Complete Recordings liner notes and Annotated Scores. Now that is extensive. Matessino's SW notes are excellent in their succint style though. So much info in such a small space. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artguy360 1,843 Posted December 30, 2016 Share Posted December 30, 2016 14 minutes ago, Incanus said: Matessino. But you obviously haven't read e.g. the LotR Complete Recordings liner notes and Annotated Scores. Now that is extensive. Matessino's SW notes are excellent in their succint style though. So much info in such a small space. I have the complete LOTR complete OSTs and I kind of remember how detailed the liner notes are but honestly I got bored of reading partly because while the scores are great I am just less interested in them than I am JW's scores. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datameister 2,041 Posted December 30, 2016 Share Posted December 30, 2016 Count me among those who do not interpret the melody of The Hunt as a variant of TLW's main theme. There are some similarities, like you'd expect within a score that has a strong identity, but they're pretty melodically and harmonically distinct. Josh500 and crumbs 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steb74 53 Posted December 30, 2016 Share Posted December 30, 2016 'There are some similarities, like you'd expect within a score that has a strong identity, but they're pretty melodically and harmonically distinct.' That actually sounds like a pretty good definition of what a variation is man. I'm not one for quoting Wiki but the introductory definition there even follows what you're saying - 'In music, variation is a formal technique where material is repeated in an altered form. The changes may involve harmony, melody, counterpoint, rhythm, timbre, orchestration or any combination of these.' To that end I'd almost expect nothing less than some major distinctions between an original idea and any subsequent variations, especially with someone like Williams at the helm but I'm sure we all have differences in what criteria we use to constitute a variation. The Hunt to me just sounds like a 'basic' improv ....or perhaps aggressive riffing on the main theme. Incanus 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,306 Posted December 30, 2016 Share Posted December 30, 2016 It would be interesting to compare the two melodies (The Lost World and The Hunt) in a visual form, like this: This is a pretty common writing technique he uses throughout the Star Wars films, especially with triplets. I'm sure there's similar examples in other works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datameister 2,041 Posted December 31, 2016 Share Posted December 31, 2016 I think I'd be more inclined to agree, steb, if this melody weren't so stable and so isolated. The exact same melody plays many times throughout this one cue, which otherwise does not contain the main theme. And for me, its main markers of recognizability are different. What makes the hunt melody sound like the hunt melody is the repeated figure after the first three notes, the final two notes, and the way the harmony pretty much just sticks to the tonic. For the main theme, the things that stick out are the planing major chords and the 3/4 meter, plus the melody itself, which is different. It's all pretty subjective, but I guess I just need a more definitive connection between them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steb74 53 Posted December 31, 2016 Share Posted December 31, 2016 Oh absolutely man, I know what you mean. I guess my criteria isn't musical as such then but rather what do I believe the composer's intent was ...whether or not it was/is meant to be recognised in any significant way and do I believe the composer used even the smallest of cells to give birth to something new, even if only ever meant to be 'known' by him .....or her. Short of talking to Williams about it, who I'm sure would find a polite way of telling us to piss off as he wouldn't be able to remember anyway, I guess we can only use our gut instincts and feelings to base any decisions on. Incanus 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datameister 2,041 Posted December 31, 2016 Share Posted December 31, 2016 Haha fair enough! steb74 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,714 Posted December 31, 2016 Share Posted December 31, 2016 12 hours ago, steb74 said: Oh absolutely man, I know what you mean. I guess my criteria isn't musical as such then but rather what do I believe the composer's intent was ...whether or not it was/is meant to be recognised in any significant way and do I believe the composer used even the smallest of cells to give birth to something new, even if only ever meant to be 'known' by him .....or her. Short of talking to Williams about it, who I'm sure would find a polite way of telling us to piss off as he wouldn't be able to remember anyway, I guess we can only use our gut instincts and feelings to base any decisions on. I am a believer Steb! steb74 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 I love those low 1970's Goldsmith piano rhythms in The Long Grass! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,714 Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 Groovy angel baby yeah! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 The Shifrin funk basses of Ludlow's Speech! Rad, man! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh500 1,615 Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 1 hour ago, Stefancos said: I love those low 1970's Goldsmith piano rhythms in The Long Grass! Goldsmith? I thought this was inspired by Steiner. Anyway, does anybody know on which pieces from Steiner or Goldsmith this track is based? One of my favorite cues for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 It doesn't have to be a specific track, Josh. Just a general style or mood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh500 1,615 Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 6 minutes ago, Stefancos said: It doesn't have to be a specific track, Josh. Doesn't have to be, but I thought maybe there are at least some examples....? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,346 Posted January 4, 2017 Author Share Posted January 4, 2017 Williams is references Steiner's music for King Kong in that track. I don't know which cue(s) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post crumbs 14,306 Posted January 4, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted January 4, 2017 40 minutes ago, Jay said: Williams is references Steiner's music for King Kong in that track. I don't know which cue(s) Don't know the cue but this is what Williams is referencing: Datameister, Josh500, Pieter Boelen and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datameister 2,041 Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 Thanks for posting that! I knew he was referencing Steiner but I'd never heard the particular cue. Cool stuff! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 The Steiner cue has a far better dynamic range than Matessino's TLW mix! crumbs 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh500 1,615 Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 37 minutes ago, crumbs said: Don't know the cue but this is what Williams is referencing: Fascinating stuff! The tone is very similar, clearly inspired by this cue. But, as most times, Williams considerably improves on it.... Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 Disco Stu and RICHARDSTRAUSS68 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loert 2,511 Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 39 minutes ago, crumbs said: Don't know the cue but this is what Williams is referencing: Also, for references' sake: JP "Raptor" music from 15:27 (well, kind of). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,306 Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 1 minute ago, LampPost said: Also, for references' sake: JP "Raptor" music from 15:27. Reminds me more of the ending to The Wrecked Ship and the start of Monster on the Loose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loert 2,511 Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 4 minutes ago, crumbs said: Reminds me more of the ending to The Wrecked Ship and the start of Monster on the Loose. You're right, I thought I heard something more similar in TLW but I'm not nearly as familiar with that score as the original JP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TownerFan 4,983 Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 25 minutes ago, crumbs said: Reminds me more of the ending to The Wrecked Ship and the start of Monster on the Loose. No, in those cues it's Williams doing BRAAAMS way before Zimmer did Loert and crumbs 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,346 Posted January 4, 2017 Author Share Posted January 4, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Skywalker 1,795 Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 Heck... i own Steiner King Kong because this TLW track referenced it, and was curious about it. It's a great score Im amazed not many here did the same! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datameister 2,041 Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 I have this weird issue where I get disappointed by the poor sound quality of early orchestral recordings, yet I have this bias against modern re-recordings, too. Someday I'll get over my issues and a whole world of Golden Age scores will open up to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,714 Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 1 minute ago, Datameister said: I have this weird issue where I get disappointed by the poor sound quality of early orchestral recordings, yet I have this bias against modern re-recordings, too. Someday I'll get over my issues and a whole world of Golden Age scores will open up to me. Hey one of my friends can't stand to watch old black and white movies. Too dated he thinks. The King Kong re-recording by Stromberg and the Moscow Symphony Orchestra is excellent. Josh500 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Stu 15,495 Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 The Stromberg re-recording is a classic https://www.amazon.com/King-Kong-Complete-1933-Score/dp/B0007ACVK0/ref=pd_sbs_15_img_0?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=GVYCCNHVTPJFA01N5SE9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post TownerFan 4,983 Posted January 4, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted January 4, 2017 Steiner's King Kong is not just a great score. It's really one of the most seminal and important film scores ever written. He truly invented the modern film scoring technique in it. Incanus, Kasey Kockroach, Omen II and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Skywalker 1,795 Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 yeah, it's incredible it was written in 1933. Could have been any film from the 70s-80s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bespin 8,480 Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 I'm currently listening to the Lost World expanded score for the first time since I've bought the boxset. I never really get hooked by the OST... But now, I'm at track 12, I don't feel assaulted... and I still love it !!! Pieter Boelen 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,346 Posted January 4, 2017 Author Share Posted January 4, 2017 It's a great score Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 It might be one of his very best ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bespin 8,480 Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 I will relisten the OST tomorrow.. and find why I never really liked it... because I really loved the Expanded set. Maybe the actions cues are less concentrated on the Expanded set. I will try to find why! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Breathmask 555 Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 I listened to the OST's a few weeks back. The TLW OST program is just really badly sequenced, especially in the second half. crumbs 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now