The John Williams Jurassic Park Collection from La-La Land MUSIC Discussion

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Bass guitarists are famously cooler anyway!

[Incanus 5,714]

Just now, Stefancos said:

Bass guitarists are famously cooler anyway!

Do you want to hear a bass guitarist joke?:

A bass player walked past a liquor store.

 

 

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

What?

[Incanus 5,714]

3 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

What?

Didn't you get it? That's the whole joke and punch line in one sentence.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I just woke up, dude!

 

It is because of all the percussion or does TLW have a much stronger jazz presence in the writing then usual for a Williams score?

[Incanus 5,714]

10 hours ago, Stefancos said:

Ludlow's Speech. I love that despite the very austere percussion and brass JW actually does quite whimsical things with the woodwinds.

The little nervous woodwinds in that cue are great! And that build-up at the end which was dialled out of the film is pure JW, those panicky whipping brass, woodwinds and strings before the crescendo.

[Jay 37,359]

6 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

It is because of all the percussion or does TLW have a much stronger jazz presence in the writing then usual for a Williams score?

 

It's his jazziest score, just not played with jazz instruments

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Yeah. TLW really savours its Latin American location.

 

3 minutes ago, Incanus said:

The little nervous woodwinds in that cue are great! And that build-up at the end which was dialled out of the film is pure JW, those panicky whipping brass, woodwinds and strings before the crescendo.

 

Hundreds of tiny little orchestrational and instrumentational things going on in this score!

[Incanus 5,714]

7 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

Yeah. TLW really savours its Latin American location.

Hundreds of tiny little orchestrational and instrumentational things going on in this score!

Williams really embraced Spielberg's brief of having that Latin American jungle percussion flavour in the sequel as it really comes to define the score. Interestingly after the initial music for the ship's wrek the San Diego music is more orchestral than the score on the island while still retaining some of the percussive colourings. The Visitor in San Diego is pure orchestral mayhem. I don't know if this was a conscious decision by JW though.

[Jay 37,359]

So I finally got the read Matessino's liner notes today.  They're great!

The JP notes open with a bit of history of dinosaurs in cinema, discuss the entire production of the film and its postproduction schedule before moving onto the talk of the score.  In that section he discusses the 3 themes of the score and which tracks they can be found in (He interestingly notes that the carnivore theme isn't introduced until the T-Rex Chase, which threw me because I had always thought it was introduced earlier than that for some reason).  He also says its "a chromatically skewed segment of the dinosaur theme" which I hadn't known before.

 

He also mentions that there's a motif for the electric fences in both "The T-Rex Chase" and "High Wire Stunts"; I wonder if that's a mistake because to me, the suspense motif is what's heard in "To The Maintenance Shed" at 3:51, then reprised in "High Wire Stunts" from 0:00.  Hmmm.  EDIT: Oh, dang, I'm slow, there the theme is right there in The Falling Car 1:10, 1:40, 2:05, 2:18, etc, duh!

 

The notes also talk about how no music was ever planned for the T-Rex attack, which I had kinda forgotten about (Imagine if Williams HAD written 5-10 minutes of suspense/action cue for that sequence and we never knew about it until now?  How wild would that have been!).

 

Anyway the JP notes were really interesting, Matessino draws some neat parallels and makes some interesting observations throughout, I really enjoyed reading them.  I forgot to mention he also talks about the ushering in of digital cinema - not just in special effects but also DTS sound, and I liked that Williams visited the sound team to see what sounds the dinosaurs would make so his music wouldn't compete with it.

 

 

For The Lost World, everything Spielberg and Williams got up to between the two films is discussed, the fact that Spielberg never planned on using much material form the sequel book, some interesting stuff about the parental themes introduced in the films that weren't in the books (also mentioned in the JP notes), and other stuff before moving onto the score talk.

 

In there, he does mention the influences of the scores to King Kong, Hitari (also mentioned earlier as a film influence to Spielberg), and White Witch Doctor's score.  I like the way he describes the Lost World Theme as "creating a sense of adventure in the face of constant peril".  Also what's really cool is, he describes how in the first film, the carnivote theme was a 4 note descending theme, but in TLW, the theme for the dinosaurs is a 4 note ASCENDING theme.  He writes that it "immediately tells the listener that the dinosaurs have "ascended" to dominance and have defined their own environment."  He also points out that there's a minor theme for the baby stegosaurus that returns in In Trailer, which is something I hadn't noticed!

 

The notes say that the score's dominance of percussion was Spielberg's idea, and also notes that the main TLW theme was only intended to accompany the arrival at and departure from Isla Sorna, but Steven liked it and tracked it into several other spots.

 

Overall, the notes were a very entertaining and insightful read.  I hope Matessino continues to write the notes for all future Williams/Spielberg expansions!

[Incanus 5,714]

5 minutes ago, Jay said:

The notes say that the score's dominance of percussion was Spielberg's idea, and also notes that the main TLW theme was only intended to accompany the arrival at and departure from Isla Sorna, but Steven liked it and tracked it into several other spots.

Very interesting. So Johnny put a lot of ammo into a bookending theme that was going to be used only twice in the film. The man is a beast.

 

[Jay 37,359]

It's such a fantastic theme, one of my favorite concert arrangements!

 

Also the liners point out that JP was the first film score to one of his films where he could not attend the scoring sessions, because he was in Poland filming Schindler's List.  AND, There was a month break between recordings sessions for The Lost World!  I'd love to know which cues were recorded in March and which ones a month later in April.

[Incanus 5,714]

2 minutes ago, Jay said:

It's such a fantastic theme, one of my favorite concert arrangements!

We can only dream of how those cues would have turned out if JW had had time to rescore every tracked scene in the film and write fresh variations on the TLW theme for each one.

[Jay 37,359]

I know right?  I guess he had to move on to Amistad and couldn't do so.  Bummer.

[Incanus 5,714]

17 minutes ago, Jay said:

He also points out that there's a minor theme for the baby stegosaurus that returns in In Trailer, which is something I hadn't noticed!

Well that is no wonder since the whole In the Trailer cue was dialled out of the film. And I didn't pick up on it from the mock-ups. Plus that is not THE MOST noticeable melody JW has written is it. And shouldn't that be "dinosaur baby" theme if we are exact as in the second instance it is baby T-Rex.

[Henry Sítrónu 494]

8 minutes ago, Jay said:

It's such a fantastic theme, one of my favorite concert arrangements!

 

Also the liners point out that JP was the first film score to one of his films where he could not attend the scoring sessions, because he was in Poland filming Schindler's List.  AND, There was a month break between recordings sessions for The Lost World!  I'd love to know which cues were recorded in March and which ones a month later in April.

Spielberg talks about this in an interview, can't remember which. He used to listen to the new tapes from the recording sessions while driving to locations in poland in the morning.

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

3 hours ago, Incanus said:

And shouldn't that be "dinosaur baby" theme if we are exact as in the second instance it is baby T-Rex.

Indeed!

4 hours ago, Incanus said:

I guess it is important to him to prove that there is choir in all JP scores. For some reason. Even if it is synth in TLW.

 

Years ago there was a discussion on about Don Davis having used too much choir or something... and i said that all films had choir.

 

In the ost of TLW, the synth choir is in raptor appear at 1:25, 2:25, 2:40. It's the typical wordless synth choir used in many scores from other composers (Titanic?) and williams (The terminal: gupta's deliverance).

 

Somehow Jay just noticed that TLW has choir only in the unreleased part of "The saving dart", and i was just telling that there is more than that, in this cue and other cues that have been released anew.

[Richard Penna 3,687]

I don't know how many share this opinion, but I rather like most instances of the TLW theme tracking. There's some discussion to be had over its use during The Hunt (they're the 'bad guys'), but for The Trek and when leaving the island, I think it works rather well. The edit in The Trek is pretty bad, but I'm going to defend its effectiveness.

 

Because of that, I decided to place the alternate TLW just before Heading North, to give that sense of excitement just before the reflective moment and transition to San Diego.

 

As suggested above, we can only imagine what wonderful alternates we'd have if SS had been given the time to ask JW for rescores.

[Jay 37,359]

6 hours ago, lemoncurd said:

Spielberg talks about this in an interview, can't remember which. He used to listen to the new tapes from the recording sessions while driving to locations in poland in the morning.

 

Yes, that's mentioned in the notes too

 

 

3 hours ago, Luke Skywalker said:

Indeed!

Years ago there was a discussion on about Don Davis having used too much choir or something... and i said that all films had choir.

 

In the ost of TLW, the synth choir is in raptor appear at 1:25, 2:25, 2:40. It's the typical wordless synth choir used in many scores from other composers (Titanic?) and williams (The terminal: gupta's deliverance).

 

Somehow Jay just noticed that TLW has choir only in the unreleased part of "The saving dart", and i was just telling that there is more than that, in this cue and other cues that have been released anew.

 

I'm sorry Luke but you read my post wrong. I was not implying the TLW had no synth choir until the last cue, only that there was no REAL choir in the score at all. I am well aware there was already synth choir in the score. 

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

What a weird scene...driving with this fun percussion music while going to depresseing places.

 

 

 

Ah ok jason. it's only that i remembered everyone telling me that i was hearing things back in the day....

[Wojo 2,453]

13 minutes ago, Luke Skywalker said:

What a weird scene...driving with this fun percussion music while going to depresseing places.

 

What a fun idea for an upcoming thread. What film music do you listen to when you visit your dead family members at the cemetery? 

[Henry Sítrónu 494]

51 minutes ago, Luke Skywalker said:

What a weird scene...driving with this fun percussion music while going to depresseing places.

 

not TLW. JP! It's 1993.

[Bespin 8,481]

48 minutes ago, petaQ said:

 

What a fun idea for an upcoming thread. What film music do you listen to when you visit your dead family members at the cemetery? 

 

Presumed Innocent

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

1 hour ago, lemoncurd said:

not TLW. JP! It's 1993.

Lol true.

 

Anyway, what about jurassic park gate, to the maintenance shed and hungry raptor

 

 

On the other hand, with JP it is worse! Journey to the island is even more unappropiate!

[Jay 37,359]

I can't stop Corporate Choppers from running through my head. Great stuff. 

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I've having all sorts of bongo rhythms in my had for the last few days

[Jay 37,359]

I like that he found a way for each cue's percussive backing to be different from each other, while still clearly being part of the same score. 

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

I understand why Spielberg tracked in the Lost World theme at various points in the film. Williams composes this awesome adventurous theme that can easily be associated with your good guy characters, but it's unused for the entirety of the island scenes once they arrive. I love what Williams did there, but I think Spielberg felt the overall mood of the film with the original intended music backing it up wasn't right. Still, I wonder if we would have cared had the score not been messed with in the film.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

The action part of The Stegosaurus! No new music, but just so awesome!

[Jay 37,359]

I think that using the TLW theme where he put it in place of what Williams wrote for The Trek and High bar and Ceiling Tiles works. 

 

But I don't think it works where he put it in place of what Williams wrote for The Round Up and Ludlow's End. It changes the tone of the scenes, and I think the tone Williams originally had makes more sense. 

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Does the opening of Up In The Basket sound like its supposed to be a funeral march?

[Jay 37,359]

Haha yea, it does sound like that doesn't it

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

A foreboding that Eddie is gonna be eaten!

On The Grass now! It's official, The Lost World is undoubtedly Williams' coolest score!

[TownerFan 4,983]

On 3/12/2016 at 6:39 PM, alan1984 said:

Just finished listening to JP in it's entirety. It makes a wonderful listening experience in its C&C form and somehow, even after over 2 decades sounded fresh to my ears. It was sort of jarring hearing the clean opening and endings to a lot of the cues at first. Have to agree though that the new music on JP isn't all that exciting (Race To The Dock being the exception). It's the presentation and sound quality that makes this release worthwhile for the first film.

 

I too enjoyed so much the new presentation. I've always been fond of JW's original OST presentation (with the exception of putting the end credits in the middle of the program), as it flows well and presents all the musical ideas in coherent form. But this way the score shines even more and plays as an exciting symphonic poem full of fun and adventure. People tend to focus mostly on the big moments where the themes are very extroverted and "in your face", but it's amazing to note all the subtleties within the writing and how the music is crucial in sustaining the drama and sense of adventure of the film (for example, I believe the cue "High Wire Stunts" should be studied in film classes as a perfect example of creating suspense synergy mostly with editing and music).

 

Can't wait to sink my teeth (hehe) on The Lost World.

[Disco Stu 15,495]

39 minutes ago, Jay said:

I think that using the TLW theme where he put it in place of what Williams wrote for The Trek and High bar and Ceiling Tiles works. 

 

But I don't think it works where he put it in place of what Williams wrote for The Round Up and Ludlow's End. It changes the tone of the scenes, and I think the tone Williams originally had makes more sense. 

 

The tracking of the concert theme for Ludlow's End is definitely the weirdest, creepiest one for me.  Its use in places like The Trek is definitely why this was always one of my favorite Williams themes from my childhood.  I do wonder if we had gotten the score as Williams originally intended if I would have as much affection for that theme.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Ripples is such organic music. It's like the instruments are mimicking footsteps, breathing noises, heartbeats, groining voices etc.

[ymenard 54]

There's a bootleg that has a lot of alternate takes for JP, are those still real?  It comes from the fact that the original CD and the 20th anniversary changed cues...stuff like High Wire Stunts (Alternate Take) or Preparing to Meet the Monster (Album Take)... The only thing for TLW I can find is stuff like the Mozart and Beethoven Piano Sonata No.8, Max Steiner  or The Round Up (Album Mix) and  The Round Up (isolated percussion)

 

What I mean is, if I get this release, is there anything I have to add digitally to it?

[Wojo 2,453]

Just now, ymenard said:

What I mean is, if I get this release, is there anything I have to add digitally to it?

 

Tyrannosaur teeth. 

[Richard Penna 3,687]

48 minutes ago, Jay said:

I think that using the TLW theme where he put it in place of what Williams wrote for The Trek and High bar and Ceiling Tiles works. 

 

But I don't think it works where he put it in place of what Williams wrote for The Round Up and Ludlow's End. It changes the tone of the scenes, and I think the tone Williams originally had makes more sense. 

 

Yeah I just watched the scene again and the latter part of The Hunt sounds more heroic than it should do, given what's going on in the story.

 

High Bar doesn't have that same sense of heroism and excitement that the scene in the film has. The tracking definitely works, and is probably more effective than JW's cue.

[ymenard 54]

Ha!  That's just somebody who forgot to click on the appropriate Adobe Illustrator layer "Layer_head_teeth" when he saved his final design to a TIFF file.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Yes, its an error in the pfd sent to the printers, and they didn't catch it.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

I really don't know what Williams was thinking speeding up the tempo of the JP theme. I know it pre-dates this score, but what ending to the film did he view that made him think it could possibly work at the end of this score?

[Richard Penna 3,687]

Agreed - I hate that part. Having the real film version is a blessing, to finally get rid of that bit.

[Incanus 5,714]

41 minutes ago, Selina Kyle said:

I really don't know what Williams was thinking speeding up the tempo of the JP theme. I know it pre-dates this score, but what ending to the film did he view that made him think it could possibly work at the end of this score?

It was meant for the end credits roll. The moody 30 second ending with the synth choir performing the TLW carnivore motif in the Tranquilizer Dart was originally where the score ended (emotionally a very strange choice, way too pensive) and the concert version of the themes was meant to start at the credits. And I have always thought it strange that JW prefers to perform the "hymn" theme so fast in the concert suite he conceived. It feels like the orchestra is playing as fast as they can so they can go off to lunch or something.

[bollemanneke 3,348]

Okay, I've just listened to TLW a bit. How on earth did that score escape my notice? What an AMAZING THEME! And The Hunt (though not unreleased)... simply spectacular. I guess I totally lost interest because of the mediocre film. What a relevation this has been! Suddenly Journey to the Island seems a distant memory.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

It's a most enigmatic score!

[Trent B 337]

2 hours ago, Stefancos said:

A foreboding that Eddie is gonna be eaten!

On The Grass now! It's official, The Lost World is undoubtedly Williams' coolest score!

 

I love The Lost World over Jurassic Park now.  It definitely is a very fun score.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Yes, there's a lot of humor and playfulness in it.

[Josh500 1,615]

What do "The Lost World" and "Attack of the Clones" have in common? 

 

1. Both scores were written by JW.

2. Both scores are very underrated because of the (perceived) substandard quality of the movies.

[Trent B 337]

1 minute ago, Josh500 said:

What do "The Lost World" and "Attack of the Clones" have in common? 

 

1. Both scores were written by JW.

2. Both scores are very underrated because of the (perceived) substandard quality of the movies.

I've grown to appreciate the score for AOTC  a lot more now that we have almost (minus the unused music) all the score thanks to the various games...especially The Old Republic.