SPOILER TALK: Rogue One by Gareth Edwards

[leeallen01 2,136]

There were just so many awe-inspiring visuals. I was truly in awe at some things I saw.

 

- Perfect (practical model) looking shots of Star Destroyers and the Death Star introduction.

- Death Star destroying Jedha.

- Entire final battle sequence on and off-planet. Including the ramming ship pushing two Star Destroyers together.

- Jyn and Cassian on the beach awaiting their fate in a clear reference to an atom bomb explosion.

- Vader with his lightsaber.

 

Some visuals effects in this were the best I've ever seen in any film. I swear that first shot of that Star Destroyer in front of the Death Star looked like lego. It couldn't have been digital. It was so damn beautiful and real.

[Disco Stu 15,495]

Yep, the visual effects (other than creepy Tarkin recreation) and the action were the highlights of the movie for sure.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I'm gonna go on record and say that the CGI Tarkin and Leia were fine by me. Not perfect, but good enough. 

[Disco Stu 15,495]

Leia was fine because it was so brief.  I made my views on Tarkin clear earlier in the thread.

[Quintus 5,399]

2 minutes ago, leeallen01 said:

Some visuals effects in this were the best I've ever seen in any film. I swear that first shot of that Star Destroyer in front of the Death Star looked like lego. It couldn't have been digital. It was so damn beautiful and real.

 

I said earlier, I think the first shots were models, and then they switched to CG for the brunt of the battle. 

[leeallen01 2,136]

I too wasn't bothered by Tarkin and Leia. In fact especially scenes when Tarkin didn't speak and was just in shot, were unbelievably real. Shockingly perfect CG. When he spoke close up, you could see that CG artists cannot get mouths fully right yet.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Yes, there were a couple of shots where he looked perfect.

[Quintus 5,399]

Nah, I thought he looked creepy all of the time, but not in a preferential way. But I wasn't really bothered by it either. 

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Peter Cushing always looked a bit creepy anyway.

 

Was the actor credited btw? I noticed a thank you to the "estate of Peter Cushing" in the end credits.

[Matt C 453]

I don't think Lucasfilm would've been able to use Moff if Cushing's estate didn't sign off on it.

 

Neither the Moff or Leia stand-ins were credited in the film, to my knowledge.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

You didn't answer my question though.

 

 

[leeallen01 2,136]

By the way, I saw it with my mother, and she has seen all Star Wars films but she isn't obsessed so she doesn't know much about it etc, anyway, when I asked what she thought of Tarkin's CGI, she didn't know what I meant, so I explained that he is Tarkin from 1977, and she was hugely surprised that he wasn't real. She knew leia wasn't because she of course knows Leia better as a character, but she honestly had no idea Tarkin was CGI. 

 

That is the true test,  not us Star Wars fans, but a relative novice that has only really seen each film a couple of times in her life. She was clearly utterly convinced to not even suspect he wasn't real.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,520]

8 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

Peter Cushing always looked a bit creepy anyway.

 

He doesn't look  creepy as The Doctor, or in AT THE EARTH'S CORE.

 

 

2 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

You didn't answer my question though.

 

 

 

Interesting. That was quicker than the others.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

He was never The Doctor!

[Matt C 453]

 

1 minute ago, Stefancos said:

You didn't answer my question though.

 

1

 

Cushing is not credited as part of the main cast.

 

The end title scroll simply reads, "Special Acknowledgment to Peter Cushing, OBE."

[Disco Stu 15,495]

1 minute ago, leeallen01 said:

By the way, I saw it with my mother, and she has seen all Star Wars films but she isn't obsessed so she doesn't know much about it etc, anyway, when I asked what she thought of Tarkin's CGI, she didn't know what I meant, so I explained that he is Tarkin from 1977, and she was hugely surprised that he wasn't real. She knew leia wasn't because she of course knows Leia better as a character, but she honestly had no idea Tarkin was CGI. 

 

That is the true test,  not us Star Wars fans, but a relative novice that has only really seen each film a couple of times in her life. She was clearly utterly convinced to not even suspect he wasn't real.

 

It's not the verisimilitude of the effect that I take issue with, it's the creep factor of digitally creating a performance for an actor who is no longer with us.  I've seen a lot of people who feel the same, and I've seen a lot of people who aren't bothered by it.  I'm not protesting in the streets about it, but I did think it was gross.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Meh...

[Naïve Old Fart 9,520]

2 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

He was never The Doctor!

 

Was, too...just, not officially.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

 Stop mistaking Cushing for John Hurt!

[Naïve Old Fart 9,520]

John Hurt is officially The Doctor.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Exactly! So why did they use him as Tarkin in Rogue One?

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Naïve Old Fart 9,520]

Did anyone bat an eyelid at the whole Paul Walker thing? Or Brandon Lee? Or Olivier in Captain Awesome, or whatever the fuck it was called?

 

 

28 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

Exactly! So why did they use him as Tarkin in Rogue One?

 

They didn't use John Hurt in R1; it was Peter Cushing.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

But then Who was the Doctor?

[Quintus 5,399]

Peter Cushing was never Doctor Who???

[Naïve Old Fart 9,520]

Yes he was...but it's not canon.

 

 

4 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

But then Who was the Doctor?

 

The Doctor, that's Who!

[Quintus 5,399]

It has the best daleks though.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Wait who?

[Naïve Old Fart 9,520]

3 minutes ago, Quintus said:

It has the best daleks though.

 

Yeah, they weren't bad...and in colour, for the first (and second) time.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

6 minutes ago, Quintus said:

It has the best daleks though.

 

Geek!

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

It wasn't Peter Cushing!

 

If the Clone Wars cartoon had featured Tarkin and resembled Cushing no one would have batted an eye about it!

 

Don't think of it as them using a CGI Peter Cushing, think of it as them using a CGI Tarkin. Like how Yoda went from a puppet to CGI.

[Giftheck 916]

Did anybody find it odd that Vader's palace is situated on the very planet where he was cooked extra cripsy?

 

On 15/12/2016 at 5:11 PM, Quintus said:

What was the big twist supposed to be in this movie? I kept reading about how there was supposed to be a shocker in it. Didn't happen. 

I'm guessing it's the fact that all the new characters die. Either that or the exhaust port flaw was created on purpose.

[FC4L 87]

The movie was FUCKING AWESOME!

[Thor 7,495]

9 hours ago, BloodBoal said:

 

To put it simply:

 

- In ANH, Vader says the Tantive IV (Leia's ship) received a transmission that contained the Death Star plans. Leia says they don't have any plans and that her ship is on a diplomatic mission to Alderaan.

 

- In Rogue One, we see that a physical copy of the Death Star plans is brought in a hurry to the Tantive IV (Leia's ship). Vader actually sees this because he's slaughtering Rebels to get that physical copy. We see that physical copy being brought into the Tantive IV (Leia's ship), which then leaves the battlefield in a hurry (so Vader saw that the ship was on the battlefield).

 

 

So basically, Leia saying her ship is on a diplomatic mission in ANH doesn't make much sense, because Vader saw the ship leaving the battlefied in Rogue One. Plus he has seen the physical copy of the Death Star plans in Rogue One, yet in ANH he talks about a transmission, not a physical copy of the Death Star plans.

 

Thanks for that! Got it now.

 

Of course, Leia never saw daddy Vader at the end of ROGUE ONE, so she could just be lying about the 'diplomatic mission' to get out of the situation. Also, the transmission IS the physical copy -- and the Tantivt IV WAS part of the bigger ship -- so you can kinda twist it to make sense.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Its minor, possible, inconsistency between two films. Hardly anything to get worked up about.

[Giftheck 916]

1 minute ago, Thor said:

 

Thanks for that! Got it now.

 

Of course, Leia never saw Vader at the end of ROGUE ONE, so she could just be lying about the 'diplomatic mission' to get out of the situation. Also, the transmission IS the physical copy -- and the Tantivt IV WAS part of the bigger ship -- so you can kinda twist it to make sense.

 

Yeah, but they weren't 'beamed' aboard the Tantive IV, they were 'beamed' to the Rebel flagship.

 

I don't really consider it that big a deal, TBH. Georgey-boy had worse inconsistencies in the Prequels. I always considered that the Tantive IV would be present at the battle, as how else would Vader know what ship the plans had gone to?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I never even knew there was a battle?

[mrbellamy 6,286]

So I enjoyed the movie well enough but definitely didn't like it as much as TFA, for basically the reasons Stefan and Romao said about establishing character, and I also found the tonal shifts in TFA generally smoother and more effective. Thought it was more exciting and suspenseful too, and even had more gravitas despite this film's "adult" (?) tone. Somehow the universe felt more lived-in to me in TFA, especially the wonderful atmosphere and slightly observational feeling following Rey around on Jakku. That gave me more of a sense of place and the character's inner life than anything in Rogue One. Also aesthetically, the surprising number of well-chosen moments that Abrams, his editors, and Williams would allow to hold in complete silence for several seconds really struck me in TFA and drew me in, it had a more satisfying storytelling dynamic. Main thing this had going for it was greater sense of scale and invention in the world-building, better action I suppose, but nothing really captured my imagination.

 

In a way, I actually feel the opposite of apparently a lot of people, this movie had even more of a "fan film" vibe to me. Lots of little things contributed to that like the score, Tarkin/Leia/Vader/Threepio/R2, throwing in the 70s clips of the Rebels. Most of these were amusing in and of themselves, but I will say that with Tarkin, it honestly just completely distracted me from paying any attention to those scenes, so in that way it was simply a questionable storytelling choice. The uncanny valley still outweighed the novelty of continuity for me.

 

The Vader scene at the end was another thing that was ultimately nothing more than novelty for me....I can appreciate the sight of watching Vader go ballistic as much as anyone, but it seemed so weirdly irrelevant to everything else. Unlike TFA's ending which did make me genuinely anticipate seeing Luke -- not just in the crawl and the hushed name-dropping, but in the way the major OT characters are doled out over the course of the movie -- this movie didn't really make me care about anything going on with Vader or his role in this story. It didn't feel like they really set up THAT moment, built to it, so even though on the surface they're trying to make it some huge payoff, it really just seemed like last-minute pandering to the audience. I don't think it's such a great Vader scene except for pure style. Of course it's memorable but it didn't resonate with me, that whole coda felt weirdly out of sync with everything else, but I did get a bit of a jolt seeing the Rebels running through those white corridors.

 

8 minutes ago, BloodBoal said:

Different circumstances. The actors signed a contract to be in their film, and died during production. In a way, it's more respectful to complete the work they started than to completely abandon it and start anew with another actor. Plus, it's not a case of a performance created completely out of thin air like here.

 

PSH in Hunger Games goes in that category too, yeah. I agree that while this is really just one step forward from that, it's sort of a different precedent that's a little weird and gross. Just the idea that Hollywood is indeed pushing forward with this and technically honing its skills at getting better and better at reviving our favorite dead people. In a few years might we have Mrs. Doubtfire 2 with a Robin Williams cameo? Or even in a starring role? When they make the Harry Potter and the Cursed Child movie, I suppose we will get Alan Rickman as Snape now...

[Giftheck 916]

1 minute ago, Stefancos said:

I never even knew there was a battle?

 

It's mentioned in Episode IV's opening crawl:

 

Quote

It is a period of civil war.
Rebel spaceships, striking
from a hidden base, have won
their first victory against
the evil Galactic Empire.

During the battle, Rebel
spies managed to steal secret
plans to the Empire's
ultimate weapon, the DEATH
STAR, an armored space
station with enough power
to destroy an entire planet.

 

[Thor 7,495]

13 minutes ago, Gistech said:

 

Yeah, but they weren't 'beamed' aboard the Tantive IV, they were 'beamed' to the Rebel flagship.

 

Tomato, tomatoe. At the time of transmission, the Tantive IV WAS part of the Rebel flagship.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

The battle in Rogue One hardly felt like a victory actually...

[Giftheck 916]

4 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

The battle in Rogue One hardly felt like a victory actually...

 

Well, they did achieve their aims: they got the plans, so it was technically a victory. It was a bittersweet victory because they lost the entirety of Rogue One.

 

4 minutes ago, Thor said:

 

Tomato, tomatoe. At the time of transmission, the Tantive IV WAS part of the Rebel flagship.

 

Like I said, it doesn't really matter.

[Disco Stu 15,495]

34 minutes ago, mrbellamy said:

So I enjoyed the movie well enough but definitely didn't like it as much as TFA, for basically the reasons Stefan and Romao said about establishing character, and I also found the tonal shifts in TFA generally smoother and more effective. Thought it was more exciting and suspenseful too, and even had more gravitas despite this film's "adult" (?) tone. Somehow the universe felt more lived-in to me in TFA, especially the wonderful atmosphere and slightly observational feeling following Rey around on Jakku. That gave me more of a sense of place and the character's inner life than anything in Rogue One. Also aesthetically, the surprising number of well-chosen moments that Abrams, his editors, and Williams would allow to hold in complete silence for several seconds really struck me in TFA and drew me in, it had a more satisfying storytelling dynamic. Main thing this had going for it was greater sense of scale and invention in the world-building, better action I suppose, but nothing really captured my imagination.

 

Yeah I agree with a lot here.  TFA was like a really satisfying, smoothly operating machine.  Every thing was just enjoyable.  Rogue One is super creaky and inconsistent.  Some brilliant stuff and lot of not brilliant stuff.

[Thor 7,495]

38 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

The battle in Rogue One hardly felt like a victory actually...

 

That's what I liked about it, as I mentioned earlier. We know that a lot of people died bringing this information to the rebels (as they say in ANH), so from the get-go we knew there was a lot at stake, and not even the protagonists were safe. This puts it apart from pretty much anything in the SW universe so far. That being said, I do wish the ending was executed more elegantly -- with more emotional connection.

[Disco Stu 15,495]

Now the question is how long until we get a movie about the "many Bothans" who died to bring them the second Death Star plans?!?!

 

Rogue 2 Many Bothans

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

This is the first SW movie where I felt on-edge because it was more suspenseful than any previous film in the series.

 

Edwards (or whoever the hell ghost directed most of this) knows how to build momentum and hold your attention.

 

Also Jason Voorhees' moment at the end was brief, but awesome!

[Thor 7,495]

10 minutes ago, Daniel Clamp said:

Also Jason Voorhees' moment at the end was brief, but awesome!

 

What?!?

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

I was disappointed though that Jin and Zorro didn't make out at the end of the movie. I mean come on! They were about to get blown away - shove your tongues in each other's mouths!

 

I'm a bit bothered by how sterile, asexual and creepily platonic things are getting in SW. While Marvel and DC are doing the opposite. Captain America kisses that blonde beauty before he heads into battle against Tony. Clark Kent roots Lois in the bath.

 

I mean, what the fuck is wrong with you, SW?!

[Jay 37,353]

I noticed too that there was absolutely zero sexuality or even a little flirting at all in the picture

 

At least TFA had Finn pining for Rey