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SPOILER TALK: Rogue One by Gareth Edwards

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With Rogue One open now, here's a thread to discuss the film openly with no spoiler warnings.  I'll be creating these kinds of threads for all the big movies that warrant it.

 

Please leave spoilers out of the original thread.

 

 

 

DISCUSS!

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Tell me more about how shit Tarkin looks, I could do with a laugh. I've seen a handful of reviewers express similar opinions to you on this particular subject BB, but not many. Perennial arsehole Robbie Collin of The Daily Telegraph, for example, appears desperate to justify something which (apparently) looks entirely unconvincing:

 

Quote

'There’s an eerie nervelessness about the results from certain angles, but given Cushing, a Hammer Horror veteran, exuded an aura of undeath at his professional best, he might be the ideal candidate for the procedure.'

 

Anyone even vaguely familiar with Cushing's output will tell you this is utter bollocks. Just call it what it is.

 

One more thing:

 

1 hour ago, BloodBoal said:

Random thoughts:

- The cameo of the two Cantina creatures from Episode IV felt useless.

 

We're supposed to believe you were familiar with the name of a shit planet like Mustafar and not the names of legendary Cantina ruffians Ponda Baba and Dr Evazan (at least I presume that's who you're referring to)? Clearly you're just trying to downplay your Star Wars fan credentials lest you appear 'uncool'. Poor form.

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CGI Tarkin looks like shit, no doubt. As does Leia, but fortunately that's just for a few seconds. There are any number of ways they could have made this more elegant. I like the way they introduce Tarkin -- with the back against the camera, and we outline his features as reflected in the window. But if they really wanted to have him as a central character (which they did), they should have let him be in the shadows or otherwise obscured. Or -- as suggested above -- get a lookalike. CGI technology simply isn't there yet that it can merge naturally in a live action film like this (at least not for humanbeings).

 

To follow up some of BB's points -- I actually have no problem with the lack of an opening crawl. The in-medias-res opening feels fresh and exciting. I'm not reactionary that way. But it would have been nice to have a bit more of the STAR WARS theme beyond the 'baaam' orchestral crescendo.

 

I also like much of the first act. I agree that they jump around a bit, but it wasn't any problem following the plot. But I'm confident that if Edwards had freer reign, it would have been far more low-tempo (not to mention the action sequences at Cardiff or whatever it's called in the last act).

 

I did like Felicity Jones' and Ben Mendelsohn's performances, but I also think they were underdevelopped. I certainly didn't connect with Jyn the way I did Rey. I like the fact that all the characters die at the end -- which is what they say in the first STAR WARS movie when talking about the mission -- because it means that things are constantly at stake. But I agree that the DEEP IMPACT-like ending on the beach didn't have the emotional wallop it should have had because I hadn't been properly involved in the characters. Also, I wish the confrontation with Mendelsohn had been executed more elegantly, perhaps by allowing him to get the knowledge of the successful transmission instead of just falling over and lying there unconsciously when it happens.

 

I dig the 'grainy' photography and the realness of the sets/places, and the general tone of the film.

 

I hated pretty much everything about the music, so I'm not going to repeat that here.

 

Also love the small detailed references to the existing universe -- like using the Snowmonster race from EMPIRE as a warrior for the empire, or a glimpse of Jabba the Hutt's 'assistant' in that bar sequence. The references were kept just right, IMO -- even if major plotlines mirror the originals (like the whole destroying the shield from a green forested planet that we saw in RETURN).

 

Those are just some random remarks. I'll think of more.

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4 minutes ago, Thor said:

To follow up some of BB's points -- I actually have no problem with the lack of an opening crawl. The in-medias-res opening feels fresh and exciting. I'm not reactionary that way. But it would have been nice to have a bit more of the STAR WARS theme beyond the 'baaam' orchestral crescendo.

 

It seems you didn't quite get what I meant (or I didn't express myself clearly): I'm fine with having no opening crawl BUT I wish they had still given us a proper, slow opening to draw us into the story, instead of that abrupt opening we got.

 

4 minutes ago, Thor said:

I also like much of the first act. I agree that they jump around a bit, but it wasn't any problem following the plot. But I'm confident that if Edwards had freer reign, it would have been far more low-tempo (not to mention the action sequences at Cardiff or whatever it's called in the last act).

 

I've been rewatching the trailers and other stuff like that, and there definitely seems that a lot of stuff was cut, from the first act (flashbacks showing Jyn's "training" with Gerrera for example) as well as the last act (it seems that Jyn and Cassian were supposed to be seen running on the beach with other Rebel soldiers, after they got the Death Star plans in their possession)... I'm sure Edwards' original cut was much better, before Disney probably wanted to make the film more family-friendly and more gritty and war-like.

 

4 minutes ago, Thor said:

Also, I wish the confrontation with Mendelsohn had been executed more elegantly, perhaps by allowing him to get the knowledge of the successful transmission instead of just falling over and lying there unconsciously when it happens.

 

Agreed. His demise was weak.

 

4 minutes ago, Thor said:

Also love the small detailed references to the existing universe -- like using the Snowmonster race from EMPIRE as a warrior for the empire, or a glimpse of Jabba the Hutt's 'assistant' in that bar sequence. The references were kept just right, IMO -- even if major plotlines mirror the originals (like the whole destroying the shield from a green forested planet that we saw in RETURN).

 

Agreed about the references in general: they felt well-handled and didn't feel forced, apart from a few exceptions.

 

Oh, and I don't think the warrior from the Empire was a Wampa, by the way. ;)

 

It did look a bit like it, though.

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Definitely looked like a Wampa to me (thanks for the correct name, btw!), but there was never any close-ups; he was just moving about in the war zone, as some sort of mule. See point 5 here:

 

http://www.digitalspy.com/movies/star-wars/feature/a801538/5-burning-questions-we-have-from-the-rogue-one-footage/

 

I forgot to mention that I also didn't care for Forest Whitaker's character and performance. It was neither here nor there, and as much as I like him as an actor, I constantly felt he was miscast in the role.

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I see. Probably some racial relative, then.

 

The Jabba 'assistant' guy I was talking about earlier is apparently called Bib Fortuna (I had to look it up). I thought it was him at the bar, but it could of course be another, similarlooking guy from the same race.

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1 minute ago, BloodBoal said:

 

No. But I guess them being mentioned, etc. was cut from the film. Seems like a lot of stuff was cut.

 

Cool, It was the only aspect of this movie which would have interested me! :up:

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4 minutes ago, BloodBoal said:

 

No. But I guess them being mentioned, etc. was cut from the film. Seems like a lot of stuff was cut.

The two guys on Jehda get referred to as the "Guardians of the Whills" in the film but that's the only mention. 

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I can see your point but I'm too much of a total fanboy to mind. 

 

Tarkin was a bit odd in places. I think they should have only shown the back of his head and reflection in the window but it's something that bothered me .

 

the reshoots seem to have been extensive 

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5 minutes ago, Bilbo Skywalker said:

Tarkin was a bit odd in places. I think they should have only shown the back of his head and reflection in the window

 

I actually thought they were going to do just that, as it's how he appears in the first scene. But then they showed his face...

 

5 minutes ago, Bilbo Skywalker said:

the reshoots seem to have been extensive 

 

Yep. Especially in the last part of the film.

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1 minute ago, BloodBoal said:

 

I actualyl thought they were going to do just that, as it's how he appears in the first scene. But then they showed his face...

 

 

Yep. Especially in the last part of the film.

I thought the beginning. The scene with Mon Mothma has no resemblance to the trailers!

2 minutes ago, Bespin said:

 

Which version?

 

BluRay of course 

Two Prequel planets, Mustafar and Coruscant. 

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5/10 from me too.

 

I thought the movie was frankly dull for the most part. The characters don't go anywhere. Somehow it didn't quite feel like Star Wars. Even the little things, like the planets' names appearing on screen (and there are a bunch of them), didn't feel Star Wars. It felt like a Tom Clancy type of thing

 

It's too cliché laden. The necklace given by the mother. The death scene speech. The hero that appears dead and reappears out of nowhere to save the other hero.

 

I think Giacchino managed to ruin every time he reprised one of Williams' original themes (except perhaps the Imperial Motif and the Death Star motif).

 

I know these are all scattered thoughs without eloquency, but I've just come out of the movie and I'm sadly dissapointed

I'm not sure if this is the worst of the decent Star Wars movies, or the best of the bad Star Wars movies

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Wasn't Krennic the most useless villain ever? It was almost comical how no one gives a shit about him (save for two execution scenes).

 

So Guardians of the Whills are basically responsible for excavating the crystals for Jedi lightsabers. And ultimately also for the Death Star.

 

Karol

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Well, to be fair he IS the best antagonist in the film (beyond Vader). He does get some room to play out his skills in the scenes he's in. But I also agree that there are more that could be explored, character-wise, and his end was definitely undercut.

 

Thanks for the breakdown above, BB. That's not a detailed level I'm able to participate in (heck, I hardly remember the names of the main characters in this franchise), but good work.

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Just now, tUfnTIEfighter said:

One thing I haven't seen mentioned so far: were the rebel pilots the same pilots from Star Wars (1977)? CGI? Some sure looked like them

21 hours ago, BloodBoal said:

Random thoughts:

- To me, it looked like some of the X-Wing pilots were the same guys seen in the OT. If that's the case, I wonder how they did that (since the actors should be 40 years older). Did they somehow use footage from the OT? Hmmm...

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It was obviously original footage of the characters from back in '77. Very cool actually. 

 

10 minutes ago, crocodile said:

Wasn't Krennic the most useless villain ever? It was almost comical how no one gives a shit about him (save for two execution scenes).

 

 

I was disappointed by him, Mendelsohn is a terrific and extremely charismatic actor yet this movie completely wasted him. 

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They re-used footage of the fighter pilots from Star Wars. The stock was notably different and some of the line readings were exactly the same. I found it to be rather distracting (although nowhere near as distracting as the monstrosity that was Tarkin).

 

56 minutes ago, BloodBoal said:

- The third interesting thing is the footage of Jyn and Cassian running on the beach, with Jyn holding the Death Stars plans in her hand (01:21-01:40). The way the finale unfolds in the final cut, I don't see where that scene could fit, because you have Cassian and Jyn getting the plans in the building with the antenna, then right after that Cassian gets hurt and Jyn climbs all the way up to the antenna to transmit the data. So how could both end up running on the beach with the Death Star plans? It can only mean one thing: reshoots with the finale heavily restructured.

 

There's another clue to this restructuring in the latest Star Wars: Battlefront video game expansion.

 

The new game mode Infiltration looks like it follows the climax of Rogue One, but with some changes. The game is made up of three stages:

 

- First, Rebel players have to protect ships carrying personal as they make a run for the shield gate. This is not in the film as it is in the game. The air battle doesn't come until later, and I actually found it really unclear why there's an air battle at all (other than that it looks cool).

- Second, Rebel players have to plant explosives on the ground to create a diversion, while the plans are captured. This is pretty much straight from the movie.

- In the third stage of the game, Rebel players have to protect other Rebel players who physically carry the Death Star plans to an extraction point. This is nowhere to be found in the film, but could line up with the footage we've seen of Jyn and Cassian running along the beach.

 

Now of course the game designers could have changed the scenario to suit their video game. But it's interesting that this third stage of the game seems to have striking similarities to footage we know didn't make it into the final version of the film.

 

Quote

Cassian: "Light the place up and make ten men feel like a hundred"

 

This was in the film.

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10 minutes ago, Mr. Breathmask said:

They re-used footage of the fighter pilots from Star Wars. The stock was notably different and some of the line readings were exactly the same. I found it to be rather distracting (although nowhere near as distracting as the monstrosity that was Tarkin).

 

 

There's another clue to this restructuring in the latest Star Wars: Battlefront video game expansion.

 

The new game mode Infiltration looks like it follows the climax of Rogue One, but with some changes. The game is made up of three stages:

 

- First, Rebel players have to protect ships carrying personal as they make a run for the shield gate. This is not in the film as it is in the game. The air battle doesn't come until later, and I actually found it really unclear why there's an air battle at all (other than that it looks cool).

- Second, Rebel players have to plant explosives on the ground to create a diversion, while the plans are captured. This is pretty much straight from the movie.

- In the third stage of the game, Rebel players have to protect other Rebel players who physically carry the Death Star plans to an extraction point. This is nowhere to be found in the film, but could line up with the footage we've seen of Jyn and Cassian running along the beach.

 

Now of course the game designers could have changed the scenario to suit their video game. But it's interesting that this third stage of the game seems to have striking similarities to footage we know didn't make it into the final version of the film.

 

 

This was in the film.

They are two separate lines in the film .

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3 minutes ago, Quintus said:

It was obviously original footage of the characters from back in '77. Very cool actually.

 

Would have been cooler if Wedge Antilles had been in there, though. ;)

 

3 minutes ago, Quintus said:

I was disappointed by him, Mendelsohn is a terrific and extremely charismatic actor yet this movie completely wasted him. 

 

Yep.

 

I would have liked the heroes to face him more than once (well, they do see him briefly on Eadu, but still). As it is, he's too much of a distant villain who's seen complaining most of the time instead of being threatening.

 

3 minutes ago, Mr. Breathmask said:

The new game mode Infiltration looks like it follows the climax of Rogue One, but with some changes. The game is made up of three stages:

 

- First, Rebel players have to protect ships carrying personal as they make a run for the shield gate. This is not in the film as it is in the game. The air battle doesn't come until later, and I actually found it really unclear why there's an air battle at all (other than that it looks cool).

- Second, Rebel players have to plant explosives on the ground to create a diversion, while the plans are captured. This is pretty much straight from the movie.

- In the third stage of the game, Rebel players have to protect other Rebel players who physically carry the Death Star plans to an extraction point. This is nowhere to be found in the film, but could line up with the footage we've seen of Jyn and Cassian running along the beach.

 

Now of course the game designers could have changed the scenario to suit their video game. But it's interesting that this third stage of the game seems to have striking similarities to footage we know didn't make it into the final version of the film.

 

Interesting. The funny thing is, right with the first teaser, we see both those shots of Jyn and Cassian on the beach AND Jyn at the top of the building with the antenna. So, I wonder how it was all supposed to fit. Maybe it originally went like this: Jyn and Cassian get the plans -> both escape from the building and rush to a ship to leave the planet -> ship gets destroyed -> they go back to the antenna building to transmit the data from there (and in this edit, Cassian wouldn't get shot by Krennic in the archives building when they get the plans but later, when they go back to the building). Then they thought it was too "convoluted" and decided to keep all the climax in the building. Or something like that.

 

15 minutes ago, Mr. Breathmask said:

This was in the film.

 

OK, removed it from my post.

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How much did Galen contribute to the plans anyway?

 

We already saw the Death Star plans in Episode II, which is about five or six years before Rogue One starts, I think.

 

And construction on the Death Star had already begun by the end of Episode III. Without plans or what?

 

2 minutes ago, BloodBoal said:

Interesting. The funny thing is, right with the first teaser, we see both those shots of Jyn and Cassian on the beach AND Jyn at the top of the building with the antenna. So, I wonder how it was all supposed to fit. Maybe it originally went like this: Jyn and Cassian get the plans -> both escape from the building and rush to a ship to leave the planet -> ship gets destroyed -> they go back to the antenna building to transmit the data from there (and in this edit, Cassian wouldn't get shot by Krennic in the archives building when they get the plans but later, when they go back to the building). Then they thought it was too "convoluted" and decided to keep all the climax in the building. Or something like that.

 

That would actually be quite a sensible edit. Don't send them back to the beach first. Just have them go straight from the archives to the antenna.

 

I'm a bit disapointed we didn't get that TIE Fighter confrontation atop the antenna. That looked cool. If that shot was created exclusively for the trailler, that'd be a pretty lame move.

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6 minutes ago, Romão said:

This scene does not really fit with what we saw in Rogue One, does it?

 

 

 

Yes it does. She's playing diplomatic immunity but everyone knows she's bullshitting. 

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