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Spiderman 2 The Train Sequence Danny Elfman Vs. Christopher Young


The Train Sequence Danny Elfman Vs. Christopher Young   

16 members have voted

  1. 1. Who Scored the scene Better?

    • Danny Elfman
      5
    • Christopher Young
      11


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Hi I am curious to see which one you like better between The Train Sequence originally scored by Danny Elfman and then later done by Christopher Young for the final film version. I will leave a link to youtube that has both Young's the Elfman's version! Let the battle begin!

 

 

 

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Cool to compare these, thanks for sharing the video. 

 

I think each has pros and cons. 

 

The Elfman version uses the main theme too much, but the Young only uses it once. And Elfman's uses the Doc Oct theme, which I love. 

 

I'm also not a huge fan of the techno-y percussion of Elfman's, but Young's is a bit on the generic side. 

 

I guess a hybrid of the two would be my ideal :P

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I can offer some insight into this.  Raimi had a problem with Elfman's approach but struggled in explaining why it wasn't working for him.  Elfman followed the tempo of the train so as it slowed down at the climax, the musical energy dwindled.  That frustrated Raimi and Elfman was through doing rewrites either because he was emotionally exhausted on the frustrating project or was starting other projects.  Young instead increases the tempo so the tension escalates at the end as the train reaches the ledge which works better and what is in the film.  It took a few years for Raimi and Elfman to mend the rift over this frustrating film experience so Young scored the next few Raimi projects.

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Young's cue is more serious, but a bit more generic. Elfman's is a little too outlandish for me for such a serious scene, but standalone is a great piece. Agreed with Jay that the synths feel a bit unneeded.

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Both use Doc Ock theme and Spidey's theme. As a piece of music I like Young's more but it also doesn't sit very well stylistically with the rest of the score.

 

EDIT: Just watched the video. I sort of thing they are both on about the same level really.

 

Karol

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Young nailed the tempo and energy Raimi was looking for. And it worked.

 

Elfman's rejected cue is a weird curiosity in an otherwise very strong score.

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2 hours ago, Rose Dawson said:

I enjoy the tender music in this score, like the "Punch me, I bleed" scene.

 

That was one of the cues I was hoping to see on the OST, but no such luck. 

 

I'm hoping we'll get an expanded release with Young's music included. 

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  • 5 years later...
On 08/01/2017 at 12:46 PM, Jay said:

Poll is an exact tie right now. 

 

Guess I broke it then :)

 

My issue with the Elfman cue is that it relies a bit too heavily on SM1 repeats to carry it through in the first part. It also has an issue that some of the other Spidey films have, where it somewhat musically telegraphs to the viewer that the whole situation is under control. So even if it manages to match the scene in tempo, I feel it never really reaches a point where real danger is sonically communicated.

 

Young, as standard as it may be, ramps the tension up throughout the scene. So it leaves the viewer with more of an uncertainty as to how the situation might end. Hell, I think I love it on the basis of containing one of my favorite renditions of the Spidey theme out of the whole trilogy. Really the only complaint I have is the use of the Hellraiser variant of the Doc Ock theme, which should've stayed in the lab sequence.

 

Regardless of how one feels about either cue: they certainly leave more of an impression than most action cues these days.

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Love the Elfman cue, but Young's really is better for the scene.

 

Thematically, Elfman's is vastly superior. I love all of the new angles he takes the Spidey theme in the second part of the cue, with all of those variations on the secondary and tertiary themes as well as the main one, the clashing of Doc Ock's and Spider-Man's theme in the first half, and even though it does relieve too much tension, the Spider-Man theme when he starts web-swinging back to the train is so satisfying and beautiful to listen to. 

 

However, in terms of perfectly capturing the essence of what the scene is supposed to be, Christopher Young's really takes the prize. The never-ending tension brought on by the rabid snares and pounding brass, the cluster chords and trills, and the consistent villainous tone throughout the majority of the piece really make it as heart pounding as it should be, while revealing nothing about the outcome. 

 

I also agree that Young's version of the Spider-Man theme is one of the best and most creative variations on it in the trilogy, but it admittedly would have been nice if he was able to incorporate more of it when Peter's stopping the train in the second part.

 

I actually think Young's version of Ock's theme really works in this scene. It makes the situation feel far more horrific and hopeless, whereas Elfman's version at that same part feels casual and matter-of-fact by comparison. I didn't really get Hellraiser vibes from it in this scene, as it had the normal Elfman tempo this time, and not the Hellraiser one and arpeggios that it had in the lab scenes. 

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I called it the Hellraiser variant because only in these CY scored scenes does it ever sound that "operatic," for lack of a better word.

 

For me, I agree with one thing Christian Clemmensen wrote about Young's contributions, where The Demonstration/Lab Blows Up makes for a pretty solid introduction to the Octavius theme in film (especially if you're unaware of the temp track), as if it was "birth" of it in the score. So it lessens that track's impact when a partial repeat of that variant just gets sort of dropped in here, since it would've been the regular Elfman version in-between.

 

If anything, even removing the choir (which I did do with that vocal removal AI) would've been enough for me to accept it better in the cue, as it still retains the dramatic flair without it. Strange how they kept it for that section, yet removed it from other parts of the music in the scene.

 

In any case, I still love the cue, so it's purely an extreme nitpick on my end.

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On album, both versions of the cues are great. It's probably Elfman's best action music for the series.

 

In the film, Young wins. Elfman's version uses the Spidey theme too much - it sounds too heroic, even though throughout most of the scene, Spider-Man isn't "winning".

 

I think I heard once that Young re-scored the scene in just a couple of days. Impressive if true.

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Having listened again, my opinion is pretty much unchanged in 5 years. Elfman focuses too much on the heroic nature of the scene - it never feels like they're in any real peril. But taken purely as music it's a really fun, exciting cue.

 

Young interprets the scene better but his music is more incidental in isolation. Great rendition of the Spidey theme too.

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I hate to say this as I adore Young on anything, but Elfman works brilliantly. Don't see why they had to redo that. Probably a weird Raimi quirk.

This is the stuff that Young excels in, not necessarily action rescores:

 

 

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