#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 It's shoddy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted February 2, 2017 Author Share Posted February 2, 2017 A lot of the matte work is. I don't buy the excuse that it's based on 1930s serials. The effects in the first two movies were obviously as good as they could make them at the time. Another excuse is that ILM was working on too many 1989 movies, so the effects were phoned in or farmed out. But even Star Trek V has better effects than the airplane scene. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 I think we all know where this is going, Justin. The Last Crusade sucks. Always is the better 1989 Spielberg film. In fact, it's a masterpiece, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naïve Old Fart 9,511 Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 I have always (no pun intended!) found ALWAYS to be the more interesting film, thematically, emotionally, and artistically. Its no masterpiece, to be sure, but it really is not bad. I Agee with Rose...er, Justin...ST:V has arguably the better effects (and that's saying something about ILM), but the Indiana Jones films have never been effects-centric. Maybe that's why KOTCS failed (that, and the fact that it's gobshite). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pieter Boelen 740 Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 I still love Last Crusade. Honestly can't decide which of the first three films and scores is my favourite. They pretty much ALL are! Won't claim they don't have flaws, but their awesomeness more than makes up for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naïve Old Fart 9,511 Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 Let me pur a little descaler, in your think-tank, Pieter: Films ROTLA>TOD>LC>KOTCS. Scores ROTLA>TOD>LC>KOTCS. Happy to help Pieter Boelen 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,336 Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 Films: TOD > TLC > ROTLA >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> KOCS Scores: TOD > TLC > ROTLA > KOCS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Stu 15,495 Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 2 minutes ago, Jay said: Films: TOD > TLC > ROTLA >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> KOCS Scores: TOD > TLC > ROTLA > KOCS I have your same ranking for the films (minus a couple of greater-than symbols ) Scores: TLC > TOD > ROTLA > KOCS Not Mr. Big 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 Wait what? ROTLA as last if the trilogy? INCORRECT! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naïve Old Fart 9,511 Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 Sacrilege. SACRILEGE!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 Think of the children! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naïve Old Fart 9,511 Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 Lamai? Lamai! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,336 Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 9 minutes ago, Stefancos said: Wait what? ROTLA as last if the trilogy? If the trilogy what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 It's better then that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 Fuck off! Raiders is not third, you ass! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not Mr. Big 4,639 Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 13 minutes ago, Disco Stu said: TLC > TOD > ROTLA > KOCS Agreed. ROTLA is great, but I prefer the other two. The underscore and villain's music isn't as interesting to me as TOD and TLC. A lot of it feels interchangeable with 1941's anonymous approach to villain music. Disco Stu 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Stu 15,495 Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 2 minutes ago, Not Mr. Big said: Agreed. ROTLA is great, but I prefer the other two. The underscore and villain's music isn't as interesting to me as TOD and TLC. A lot of it feels interchangeable with 1941's anonymous approach to villain music. And excuse me while I drop this bomb, but I like the Grail Theme more than the Ark Theme. Not Mr. Big 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Jay 37,336 Posted February 2, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted February 2, 2017 I LOVE all three scores so its basically juts ranking 5 star scores against each other, which is essentially pointless; I love them all and will listen to all three regularly for the rest of my life. And any new and upcoming JW fans should check out all three as soon as possible for sure Pieter Boelen, Disco Stu and crumbs 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Stu 15,495 Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 3 minutes ago, Jay said: I LOVE all three scores so its basically juts ranking 5 star scores against each other, which is essentially pointless; I love them all and will listen to all three regularly for the rest of my life. And any new and upcoming JW fans should check out all three as soon as possible for sure Of course! But among the longtime fans these debates can be fun as long as no one takes it too seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pieter Boelen 740 Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 44 minutes ago, Richard said: Let me pur a little descaler, in your think-tank, Pieter: Films ROTLA>TOD>LC>KOTCS. Scores ROTLA>TOD>LC>KOTCS. Happy to help When in doubt, go by the order they were made! Simple does the trick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,490 Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 Nope. Films: 1) INDY 2 2) INDY 1 3) INDY 3 4) INDY 4 Scores: 1) INDY 3 -- by a wide margin! 2) INDY 1 3) INDY 2 4) INDY 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Stu 15,495 Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 5 minutes ago, Thor said: Scores: 1) INDY 3 -- by a wide margin! We agree on something!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pieter Boelen 740 Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 Last Crusade definitely used to be my favourite. Temple of Doom then crept up with the expanded release. But Raiders is nothing short of brilliant either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom 4,650 Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 The reflection off the glass between Indy and the Cobra really undermines Raiders as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naïve Old Fart 9,511 Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 Nah, it just adds to its appeal...like the t shirt man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted February 3, 2017 Author Share Posted February 3, 2017 Raiders is the best, but Temple of Doom is my favorite. However, my favorite scene is the opening of Last Crusade. So the ranking is like: Titanic > Last Crusade opening scene > Raiders > Temple > Last Crusade = Always Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brundlefly 2,385 Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 Films: Raiders of the Lost Ark The Last Crusade The Temple of Doom The Kingdom of the Crystal Skull Scores: The Temple of Doom The Last Crusade Raiders of the Lost Ark The Kingdom of the Crystal Skull Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post crumbs 14,306 Posted February 3, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted February 3, 2017 At least we can all agree that KOCS is the worst film AND score of the lot. My order changes every few years as my tastes in film change, but all 3 are brilliant for different reasons. What Spielberg and Williams nailed with the original trilogy was making every film so stylistically different from what had come before. They're all the same meal, just with different ingredients and flavours. In comparison, KOCS was an embarrassing "best of" regurgitation of the existing films. It was a "this has everything you see in an Indiana Jones film!" montage without actually being, you know, an Indiana Jones film. None of its parts ever reached the heights of what had come before (by a long shot). Gruesome Son of a Bitch, Not Mr. Big and Pieter Boelen 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pieter Boelen 740 Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 35 minutes ago, crumbs said: In comparison, KOCS was an embarrassing "best of" regurgitation of the existing films. It was a "this has everything you see in an Indiana Jones film!" montage without actually being, you know, an Indiana Jones film. None of its parts ever reached the heights of what had come before (by a long shot). Indeed half of it pretty much was. The other half was more "what am I watching!?!" though. crumbs and Gruesome Son of a Bitch 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,490 Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 1 hour ago, crumbs said: At least we can all agree that KOCS is the worst film AND score of the lot. Yes. But I think the film is better than its reputation. The score, however, I'm not sure about. It just "sits there". One of Williams' 5-6 weakest scores, for sure. But in the general scheme of things, it's pretty decent. crumbs 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurkensalat 340 Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 1 hour ago, crumbs said: At least we can all agree that KOCS is the worst film AND score of the lot. . No. :-) I actually prefer KOCS to TLC which for me is just a lazy rehash of ROTLA. With KOCS they at least tried something different, like they did with TOD which is my favorite by minimal margin over ROTLA. Films: TOD>ROTLA>>>>>>>>>>>KOCS>TLC Score: TOD>ROTLA>>>TLC>>>KOCS There you have it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,490 Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 You're mad. THE LAST CRUSADE is not only the best Indy score, but one of the best Williams scores -- and not a rehash of ROTLA at all (beyond the main theme)! So you literally just said that one of his alltime weakest scores is better than one of his alltime greatest. MADNESS! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Skywalker 1,794 Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 he said that about the film. Which is still madness... I rank higher TLC crusade too. And musically i prefer the Jungle chase over the other three chase cues. TLC's comes second, but it could be the 1st. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,306 Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 2 hours ago, Pieter_Boelen said: Indeed half of it pretty much was. The other half was more "what am I watching!?!" though. "Well, the way you're sinking your teeth into those wobble-ews..." 1 hour ago, Thor said: Yes. But I think the film is better than its reputation. The score, however, I'm not sure about. It just "sits there". One of Williams' 5-6 weakest scores, for sure. But in the general scheme of things, it's pretty decent. I guess we're fortunate that even an ordinary score from Williams is still pretty good... but yeah, easily one of his weakest and least inspired scores. You can literally hear his boredom. "Christ, another secret tomb scene?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naïve Old Fart 9,511 Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 37 minutes ago, crumbs said: You can literally hear his boredom. "Christ, another secret tomb scene?" Apart from SUPERMAN II, what scores has JW turned down, and do we know the reasons why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,306 Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 5 minutes ago, Richard said: Apart from SUPERMAN II, what scores has JW turned down, and do we know the reasons why? I'm sure there'd be a few Spielberg films he would've turned down, were it not for Spielberg directing. Couldn't tell you any others though. Probably quite a few... Naïve Old Fart 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Stu 15,495 Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 5 hours ago, Thor said: Yes. But I think the film is better than its reputation. The score, however, I'm not sure about. It just "sits there". One of Williams' 5-6 weakest scores, for sure. But in the general scheme of things, it's pretty decent. I love all the new themes in there, but I see what you're saying. "Adventures of Mutt" is fantastic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,336 Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 6 hours ago, crumbs said: At least we can all agree that KOCS is the worst film AND score of the lot. Oh, easily, and without question. 6 hours ago, crumbs said: all 3 are brilliant for different reasons. What Spielberg and Williams nailed with the original trilogy was making every film so stylistically different from what had come before. They're all the same meal, just with different ingredients and flavours. Yes! 6 hours ago, crumbs said: In comparison, KOCS was an embarrassing "best of" regurgitation of the existing films. It was a "this has everything you see in an Indiana Jones film!" montage without actually being, you know, an Indiana Jones film. None of its parts ever reached the heights of what had come before (by a long shot). Yea... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brundlefly 2,385 Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 The Kingdom of the Crystal Skull can be seen from two points: Firstly as a plain film: Pretty entertaining, technically well made, great characters, a gripping story and a lot of humor! Secondly as a sequel of the Indy trilogy: Disappointing the expectations of a true Indy fans by dumping the typical religious elements and replacing it with sci-fi and nuclear explosions! All in all KotCS successfully connects the old well-known elements with some totally new elements, but aliens and nuked fridges clearly don't belong to Indiana Jones - so imagine what would be the reception of the fourth film without those two scenes. But the trilogy is far better - naturally Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Skywalker 1,794 Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 KOTCS is just better than darabont's script so im happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Stu 15,495 Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 It seems my curse for the next 2 years is to remember every couple of weeks that Spielberg hired David Koepp again for the Indy 5 script and weep uncontrollably. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 If you want i can remind you of it often? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naïve Old Fart 9,511 Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 The issue with KOTCS is that it's not actually an Indiana Jones film. Once you lock into the fact that its Mutt's story (his search for Oxley-his surrogate father) it becomes a deeper, richer film (Mutt's reaction to Oxley's scribblings, is very touching). Granted, it doesn't live up to its potential, but it's really not that bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Stu 15,495 Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 I enjoy Blanchett's "mustache-twirling" performance, she should play more villains. I enjoyed the way the alien storyline resolved in a campy sort of way (as in, I laughed at it) but yeah doesn't belong in an Indy movie. I'm the same way with the SW prequels. I enjoy making fun of them as bad movies if I just conveniently forget they're Star Wars movies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wojo 2,453 Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 2 hours ago, Luke Skywalker said: KOTCS is just better than darabont's script so im happy. You mean Sons of Darkness? It took me two nights in high school to read that and I loved it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 20 hours ago, Tom said: The reflection off the glass between Indy and the Cobra really undermines Raiders as well. Serious? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 Fucking annoying isnt it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pieter Boelen 740 Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 9 hours ago, crumbs said: "Well, the way you're sinking your teeth into those wobble-ews..." Well played, mate; well played! 4 hours ago, Brundlefly said: aliens and nuked fridges clearly don't belong to Indiana Jones - so imagine what would be the reception of the fourth film without those two scenes. That would help. A LOT! Having seen three possible stories for Indy IV, I do reckon the final one is still the best I'd the bunch. "Best" here does not also mean "good" though. Certain story elements were flawed in concept to begin with. Unfortunately those are also the story elements that were shared between the different approaches. So it wasn't the script writers who made the biggest mistakes there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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