Can John Williams top The Jedi Steps & Finale in the last two sequels?

[crumbs 14,305]

Simple question.

 

The Jedi Steps and Finale is widely considered one of the best end credits suites Williams has composed, seamlessly weaving themes written across four decades into a dazzling 9 minute track that stands alongside his best work in the Star Wars series.

 

At 85, and showing no signs of slowing down nor abandoning the Star Wars series, do you believe John will top this suite in The Last Jedi or Episode IX? And if so, why?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

It's possible 

[BloodBoal 7,538]

Perhaps.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Or maybe not.

[crumbs 14,305]

JW's definitely moved towards these original suites in recent scores, rather than copy-paste jobs like Azkaban. 

 

Was The BFG an original suite or more in line with the latter?

[Loert 2,510]

I dunno.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

Let's just say we can't know for sure just yet.

[Cumulonimbus 22]

5 hours ago, crumbs said:

Simple question.

 

The Jedi Steps and Finale is widely considered one of the best end credits suites Williams has composed, seamlessly weaving themes written across four decades into a dazzling 9 minute track that stands alongside his best work in the Star Wars series.

 

At 85, and showing no signs of slowing down nor abandoning the Star Wars series, do you believe John will top this suite in The Last Jedi or Episode IX? And if so, why?

 

You mention seamlessly. I find that the March of the Resistance comes in too sudden, not a big fan of that transition. The rest is, as you mention, indeed dazzlingly good.

[Jay 37,322]

Of course he CAN.  But WILL he?  Who knows!

[Cerebral Cortex 3,357]

If he does choose to score Episode IX, it will (most likely) be his big goodbye to a franchise he has been a fundamental part of for over 40 years. He did superbly with the end credits to ROTS when faced with a similar situation, and I am very anxious to hear Williams now give his last last word in what would truly be the end of musical era as well as the bookend to a monumental achievement. Absolutely, I think he can top Jedi Steps. While no easy task, I have found that if anybody can top Williams, it's Williams. 

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

I don't think the TFA end credit is THAT great. Pretty good. Fun to rock out to, definitely. But it doesn't give me the same feelings the other six scores do. I can't explain it.

[A. A. Ron 1,740]

Wait, The Jedi Steps lose to Yub Nub, Victory Celebration and Augie's Municipal Band for you??

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

Not "Victory Celebration", but I'm referring to the credits themselves.

[DominicCobb 194]

2 hours ago, Cerebral Cortex said:

If he does choose to score Episode IX, it will (most likely) be his big goodbye to a franchise he has been a fundamental part of for over 40 years. He did superbly with the end credits to ROTS when faced with a similar situation, and I am very anxious to hear Williams now give his last last word in what would truly be the end of musical era as well as the bookend to a monumental achievement. 

 

Well I'm hoping this time, if he's actually composing it as a send off, he does more than just recycle an old arrangement like for ROTS.

 

As for the OP's question, it's certainly possible. TFA's suite is really quite something. Here's hoping we get more of that.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

Revenge of the Sith had a particularly stunning rendition of Leia's theme that's better than anything in TFA's end credits. The ending of Clones is spectacular as well. Phantom was basically Duel of the Fates and Anakin's Theme, but, you guessed it, better than anything in TFA.

 

In my opinion. YMMV.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Nope

[mrbellamy 6,272]

I just hope they're original and not cut-and-paste jobs. I'm expecting 8 to have a reprise (and hopefully some sort of reworking) of "Leia's Theme". If he does end up doing 9, whatever it ends up being it'll probably be a tough first listen...

[Bryant Burnette 654]

Why would anyone think he could do it in IX but not VIII?

[crumbs 14,305]

It would be a really nice touch if he ended the TLJ credits with Leia's Theme in the same vein he ended TFA's credits. Intertwining Rey's, Luke's and the Force theme together with that gentle orchestrators was a brilliant closer.

 

I just hope he doesn't revert to a cut-and-paste job, even if they're typically well done (Hook, Azkaban, etc.) He probably spend weeks doing the finale suite for TFA but it was well worth it (and he kept tinkering with it even after sessions finished, so he was clearly invested in the piece).

[aj_vader 533]

Well I picked 'Yes, in Episode VIII: The Last Jedi' because the 2nd chapter in the trilogy is where characters are usually more exposed, challenged. If we look at the score for the Force Awakens it felt like A New Hope (jokes about the similar plot aside), I can see The Last Jedi score following the Empire model, hearing the similar themes again but in a much different context. If you compare the statements of the Force Theme in A New Hope to Empire (Binary Sunset vs Rescue from Cloud City), you'll hear what I mean. I hope the First Order get a fully formed Theme in the next one like Williams did with The Empire in Empire Strikes Back. I'm hoping the film is more of a challenge to score for Williams and it pushes him a little outside of the normal Star Wars model. I don't mean drastically, along the lines of Rey's Theme, it felt fresh to Star Wars, especially the Celeste/Mallet opening. 

[Bespin 8,480]

No.

[nightscape94 965]

Never bet against John Williams.

[crumbs 14,305]

I actually think The Last Jedi will mop the floor with The Force Awakens, both in score and film.

 

Not only because I consider Johnson the better filmmaker, and I expect this film to be superior, but because there's seemingly been a lack of endless rewrites this time around. The leisurely and luxurious writing schedule has remained, but there doesn't seem to have been the abundance of recording sessions that TFA had.

 

It sounds weird but I feel like TFA was an entree to JW just getting back into the swing of writing for Star Wars. Several cues feel very 'by the numbers' while others are exceptional and as energetic as his prequel writing. I partly feel that his procedure mid-way through writing TFA probably affected some of his writing, either through fatigue or general tiredness.

 

Not to mention rewriting so many cues with alternate versions.

[Quintus 5,399]

Hopefully he will do, well because it'd be awfully nice if he managed it. 

[crumbs 14,305]

I like the analogy to the original trilogy, musically. TFA echoes a lot of ANH. Hopefully TLJ echoes TESB... and not AOTC...

[Tom 4,640]

22 minutes ago, crumbs said:

I actually think The Last Jedi will mop the floor with The Force Awakens, both in score and film.

 

Not only because I consider Johnson the better filmmaker, and I expect this film to be superior, but because there's seemingly been a lack of endless rewrites this time around. The leisurely and luxurious writing schedule has remained, but there doesn't seem to have been the abundance of recording sessions that TFA had.

 

It sounds weird but I feel like TFA was an entree to JW just getting back into the swing of writing for Star Wars. Several cues feel very 'by the numbers' while others are exceptional and as energetic as his prequel writing. I partly feel that his procedure mid-way through writing TFA probably affected some of his writing, either through fatigue or general tiredness.

 

Not to mention rewriting so many cues with alternate versions.

we all hope for something like this.  However, to expect it, is to set yourself up for disappointment and an unnecessarily negative view of the score. 

[crumbs 14,305]

6 minutes ago, Tom said:

we all hope for something like this.  However, to expect it, is to set yourself up for disappointment and an unnecessarily negative view of the score. 

 

If John can reach the same heights as TFA I'll be ecstatic. If he tops it, I'll be over the moon.

[Jay 37,322]

I definitely think the Episode 8 film will be better than the Episode 7 film.

 

As for the score?  I have no idea.  I do think Williams will deliver some amazing new renditions of Rey's Theme for sure, but beyond that.... who knows!

[crumbs 14,305]

Assuming he hasn't written an entirely new theme for her... that wouldn't surprise me, either. Anakin's Theme didn't reappear much after TPM.

[Jay 37,322]

Anakin's Theme really should have been used more in Eps 2 and 3.

[crumbs 14,305]

Indeed.

 

I only remember one use in ROTS (Anakin's Dream, microedited on the OST from memory?)

 

Was it even featured in AOTC? The OST End Credits featured a cameo but that never made the film, so...

[Jay 37,322]

Wasn't it used in an early unreleased cue in AOTC?  God its been ages since I've studied the prequel scores.

 

On CD, its definitely just in the AOTC end credits

 

http://www.jwfan.com/forums/index.php?/topic/25879-the-thematic-material-of-the-star-wars-saga-possible-community-project/

[mrbellamy 6,272]

This is the only reference I remember:

 

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

Tracked! But really well tracked! Sort of makes you wonder if Lucas wanted more of Anakin's theme since that old fool Williams seemed to forget all about it and Han Solo and the Princess.

Anakin and Padme's meeting at the beginning features Anakin's theme. But that's it until the credits end.

[King Mark 3,626]

i don;t recall people saying it was tracked before

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

You are aware I'm referring to that scene from Attack of the Clones, right? It uses Anakin's Test from The Phantom Menace. It's the best tracked scene in the prequels, though, for sure. I still remember thinking that Williams was just doing it over the first time I saw the movie.

[crumbs 14,305]

Yeah isn't that cue tracked from TPM? Anakin's Test?

 

Did Williams write original music for that scene? The music immediately preceding it seems to be from the Homestead sequence later on in AOTC, when Padme comforts Anakin after he's brought back Shmi's body.

[mrbellamy 6,272]

Yeah, it's definitely "Anakin's Test" but I couldn't remember for sure if that was just tracking or not. I dunno if there was an unused alternate for that scene as far as we know.

 

On March 17, 2017 at 7:54 AM, crumbs said:

I actually think The Last Jedi will mop the floor with The Force Awakens, both in score and film.

 

Not only because I consider Johnson the better filmmaker, and I expect this film to be superior, but because there's seemingly been a lack of endless rewrites this time around. The leisurely and luxurious writing schedule has remained, but there doesn't seem to have been the abundance of recording sessions that TFA had.

 

It sounds weird but I feel like TFA was an entree to JW just getting back into the swing of writing for Star Wars. Several cues feel very 'by the numbers' while others are exceptional and as energetic as his prequel writing. I partly feel that his procedure mid-way through writing TFA probably affected some of his writing, either through fatigue or general tiredness.

 

Not to mention rewriting so many cues with alternate versions.

 

Based on what I know of Rian Johnson's work and his tastes and opinions through his commentaries, interviews, Twitter etc, I'm optimistic for Last Jedi landing on the slightly more eccentric side of things for Star Wars, whatever that might mean for the music's potential. I'd love some wild cues for zany eye candy / world-building, but it'd also be cool to see a film that lent itself to some more subtly colorful sonic approaches, especially if there's a greater emphasis on Force mythology than before. I like the set-up of the island locale and the idea of Luke exploring ancient Jedi temples there, that could be fertile territory for Williams. 

 

Whatever it is, I do feel like this is a shot at a unique collaboration. Johnson may approach The John Williams Experience ® with a different mindset than JJ Abrams, who always talked about the man like a warm, cozy blanket...and for good reason! His own childhood nostalgia aside, Abrams clearly had a good amount of anxiety wrapped up in audiences accepting his episode as a natural extension of the saga. He's the kind of guy who takes the "same but different" mandate to heart in all his retro work and he had a sincere craving to make a "true" Star Wars movie with TFA. I feel like the raw footage of that opening Jakku sequence must have been slightly underwhelming to watch with all those Stormtroopers running around in silence...imagine the trippy relief of those recording sessions when John Williams gets up on the podium and makes it Star Wars. The old man probably looked like a Greek God from where JJ Abrams was standing, after all those months of hand-wringing and second-guessing.

 

But just seems like that's how Abrams would have probably been filtering a lot of his collaboration with Williams. "Do your thing" he apparently said, which I suppose translates to "No way am I jinxing any of that shit!" Abrams would have had plenty to say about how the music should serve the film emotionally, but sonically I don't get the feeling he would have had too many expectations. He wanted it to sound like Star Wars and he trusted Williams to deliver that.

 

Interesting thing now, though, is Rian Johnson is under a different sort of pressure...Abrams suffered the distraction of re-establishing the Star Wars facade for a new audience, whereas Johnson's film is now expected to set itself apart from TFA's love-letter approach, while somehow still holding hands with it. Where the music fits into that, who knows? I just like the idea of Williams writing for this guy, a Generation X cinephile with eclectic tastes and pretty sophisticated and contemporary aesthetic interests, alongside a passion for genre filmmaking. The Alfonso Cuaron / POA comparison seems to be brought up a lot with Episode 8 speculation, I hope that hunch sticks. I also think it might be worth something that ten years ago this guy made a movie for $500,000 and has remained slightly on the mainstream fringes since then. That's in contrast to Abrams who was making his own directorial debut with M:I III around the same time after over a decade in the thick of Hollywood, and as far as I know never wanted to be anywhere else. Talented indie directors have been thrown suddenly into $100+ million blockbusters for awhile now with mixed results, but every now and then somebody really exploits the opportunity with an interesting perspective. Fingers crossed that Rian Johnson produces something exciting, especially with a virtually unlimited sandbox and an 85 year old musical genius as part of the deal.