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Selina Kyle

Bizarre James Horner podcast interview

65 posts in this topic

13 minutes ago, publicist said:

 

Probably. Also, on 'Torn Curtain' it must be remembered that he pulled a stunt like this on Hitchcock in 'Psycho' - and came out smelling like a flower of roses (Hitchcock forbade him to score the shower scene). So he probably felt a bit too cocky by 1966.

 

Well, 'forbidding' a composer to write music for a scene isn't really going to help anyone. At best, the composer comes up with something that helps the scene, and at worst, you just don't use the cue. Both of those happen all the time in Hollywood. (just that I guess most composers these days are gracious when the director doesn't use their cue).

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Trek is a franchise of many incarnations and many composers with their own musical takes on it. Yet, musically it never feels like a radical departure apart from some isolated incidents. What I'm saying is, it all sounds of the same musical universe to me. That goes for Horner's scores as well. Just listen to his Spock theme and Klingon motif. Not too dissimilar from Goldsmith's approach...

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Horner didn't agree, obviously, but with him you never could be sure how much he built up strange rationalizations to bolster his own ego. 

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Like his claims he only used the Courage fanfare once, which isn't true.

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I sort of get what Justin (Rose) is saying. That's why Gia's scores ultimately don't work for me. They don't feel like Star trek.

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They feel like Gia.

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That's due to the awkward transitions he so loves. Though i find the 2009 one thematically close to 'Nemesis' in its darker parts.

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Didn't Horner rip off the Klingon Battle in Battle Beyond the Stars?

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20 hours ago, Rose Dawson said:

Trek is a franchise of many incarnations and many composers with their own musical takes on it. Yet, musically it never feels like a radical departure apart from some isolated incidents. What I'm saying is, it all sounds of the same musical universe to me. That goes for Horner's scores as well. Just listen to his Spock theme and Klingon motif. Not too dissimilar from Goldsmith's approach...

 

It's the flat six.  A staple of sci-fi scoring that is used frequently in Star Wars, Star Trek, and Wrath of Khan's theme.  

 

 

 

18 hours ago, king mark said:

Didn't Horner rip off the Klingon Battle in Battle Beyond the Stars?

 

And the blaster beam!  Remember Horner was a cribber. 

 

 

 

21 hours ago, Richard Penna said:

Did Herrmann ever write an alternate? I don't have a lot of his music, but what I do have has no indications that he changed anything on the scoring stage.

 

I don't think so.  Remember he worked in a time when the director never heard the score until the recording session. He'd play a theme or two at the piano but that would be it. He never had to audition cues like now.  And that whole idea would have never flown with Herrmann. If you wanted him, you got him, and you got what he wrote.  It was up to the director if they used it.  I know he wrote an alternate theme for the Twilight Zone but that was never used.  I understand Goldenthal was like this too.  When they hired him for Batman Forever, they wanted references to some of Elfman's material to keep it consistent thought they changed casts.  Goldenthal said "if you want Elfman, hire Elfman." 

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Yeah that's why I'm certain he wouldn't survive as a film composer today. The idea of delivering a score with a 'take it or leave it' approach is unheard of.

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Herrmann never did the traditional spotting session either. As the legend goes, he would watch a print in a suite with the editor and work out the timings by himself. Complete freedom and little to no discussion director or producer (with exception the you're Hitch, Truffaut or Welles). Could you imagine that working now?

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18 hours ago, publicist said:

So the nagging question remains if Horner hung out on Goldsmith's TMP sessions thinking 'i can do better than this' and what punishment he should receive posthumously?

 

I asked David Newman this.  He played violin in ST TMP sessions and here is what he said:

 

"I believe he was there.  They were very volatile seasons, the first bunch. So it doesn't really make sense that he came at the start. But I believe he attended some sessions."

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Maestro Horner was probably not impressed with Jerry's effective but hamfisted music. He retained no memory of it in any case.

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So he mentioned he hung out at Williams' sessions, too. So what Williams score he was unimpressed with? 1941?

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Unintelligent mickey mousing and warmed over John Philip Sousa!

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5 hours ago, publicist said:

But what did he think?;

 

No definitive way to know this but I'll ask someone who was in the ST TWOK sessions if Horner ever said something about Goldsmith's efforts in passing. 

 

I thought on that late interview (like 2012 or so), Horner greatly admired JW.  I forget the exact details but just admired that he had a shout out to Johnny. 

 

EDIT: Here is what I heard:

 

My working for James goes all the way back when he was still Jamie! 😊.... Never witnessed any comments about any composers!... although wouldn't be surprised if he didn't like Jerry's score!.. Jamie's main theme took a bit of getting used to for all of us....
I do recall once James mentioning two composers in sort of an explanation how John, Tom and him had a different way of working than everyone else..without sounding pompous or demeaning... more like an excuse why he was doing it rather an unconventional way!
Mind you, this after his Oscars so he was much less of a nudnik😊

 

It sounds like Horner was more of a jerk before he won the oscar but musicians sure did respect him and grew to love him.
 

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The more humble Horner in later years interviews flattered by the reaction to Titanic was a lot different than the Horner of the late 90s bragging about how the biggest song of the year was something he insisted on.

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6 hours ago, karelm said:

I do recall once James mentioning two composers in sort of an explanation how John, Tom and him had a different way of working than everyone else..without sounding pompous or demeaning... more like an excuse why he was doing it rather an unconventional way!

 

Except for Tom i don't see what possibly is so different about the other two. 

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On 3/19/2017 at 7:32 PM, karelm said:

 I know he wrote an alternate theme for the Twilight Zone but that was never used.

Actually, he wrote the intro/end credits music for season 1 of TZ, and then it was replaced for the second season with the more familiar, quirky piece of library music that is usually remembered as the TZ theme. It's one of Herrmann's most sublime themes. And it fits the show like an eerie and foreboding glove.

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1 hour ago, TheTennisBallKid said:

Actually, he wrote the intro/end credits music for season 1 of TZ, and then it was replaced for the second season with the more familiar, quirky piece of library music that is usually remembered as the TZ theme. It's one of Herrmann's most sublime themes. And it fits the show like an eerie and foreboding glove.

 

No, I meant this unused end credit and opening title:

 

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