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Why does the string section sound completely different in live performances?


bollemanneke

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This has been intriguing me for quite some time now and I'd be very interested in your reactions.

 

I've attended four live to projection concerts in the past three years. And on three occasions, I made one striking observation: the strings sound completely different. It's very difficult to put this into words, but a vain attempt follows:

 

On the recordings, the strings are there, but it's always just 'the strings'. Take 'Filch's Fond Remembrance' from Harry Potter 1. You kind of hear cellos or violas, but they're  very vague. In my concert, the cellos actually 'sang' and sounded like cellos, not like distant string instruments playing low notes. In LOTR2, I heard marcato notes for violin during the Fellowship theme, which, again, are present in the recording, but sound quite muted and hardly audible.

 

And even if I hear strings on commercial recordings, I can never tell the players apart. When I attend concerts, I can clearly hear multiple violins and violas creating the 'general strings' sound, but on recordings, they seem to come from far, far away.

 

Is it just my ears? Why does this never happen to woodwinds or brass (maybe to bassons and clarinets, but never in such an extreme way)? Are there other people here who also do a double take when they listen to live performances of violins/violas/cellos playing in unison?

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Probably has to do mainly with the recording/mixing of the OSTs: the way the mics are positioned, the added reverb, etc. Add to that the fact that the orchestra performing it live is different from the one heard on the album recording, the place where the concert is taking place, the way the players are positioned which may be a bit different than they were for the film recording, where your own seat is, etc. Lots of different factors to take into account.

 

In any case, the music you hear on CDs has always been tinkered with in one way or another. When you hear it live, you hear it untouched, in its purest form!

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Several reasons.  First of all your ears are superior at location detection and the strings are laid out spanning quite a large physical area though speakers/headphones will reduce the sound origination to two (or more if surround sound) locations rather than throughout the stage.  Second, there are subharmonic frequencies in the double basses that are not present in a recording (even with a subwoofer).  This extends to all the instruments that their are sympathetic vibrations between the instruments that wouldn't be present in a recording and overtones that are simultaneously sounded and very difficult to capture in a recording.  Third, you are probably listening to a compressed audio file (even a CD has compression) so lose audio fidelity that the real instrument heard live maintains.  This is a noticeable loss of fidelity around the sheen and fullness of the sound.  Fourth you are probably hearing the live strings in an acoustically ideal environment where the sound reverberates throughout the hall so you hear its reflections too.  I believe this applies to all instruments.  A resonate brass chord heard live is never captured as well in recordings.

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With me it's the other way around. With a live performance, I always feel that the string section doesn't have the power to match the brass, percussion or the piccolo runs. I prefer recordings. There they can sound as loud as you want it to be.

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16 hours ago, BloodBoal said:

Probably has to do mainly with the recording/mixing of the OSTs: the way the mics are positioned, the added reverb, etc.

 

This, I don't really think there's much of a mystery outside of this explanation.  And it's not just film music.  If you listen to any orchestral recording it's the exact same thing.  I remember listening to a few recordings of Sibelius' Symphony No. 5 and there is a part in the last movement, during the famous "swan call" sequence, where the basses slap the strings with their bows, and I was surprised to how much this popped out in the live performance so much more than on a recording.  The balance of the orchestra is not going to be perfect in a recording from moment to moment because you're trying to cater to the woodwinds, brass, strings, etc at any given time depending on the piece.  So it's not just the strings.  There are recordings, film music or otherwise, where flutes, clarinets, bassoons, etc, are way more up front than they would be normally.

 

 

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Indeed. And am I right in saying that orchestras in general used to sound more detailed in older recordings? For instance, when I listen to the remastered Jaws, or even Back to the Future 1, I always have the impression that, just like in a live performance, real people are playing the notes, but in new recordings, everything sounds so... perfect and unnatural. Does that make sense?

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19 minutes ago, bollemanneke said:

Indeed. And am I right in saying that orchestras in general used to sound more detailed in older recordings? For instance, when I listen to the remastered Jaws, or even Back to the Future 1, I always have the impression that, just like in a live performance, real people are playing the notes, but in new recordings, everything sounds so... perfect and unnatural. Does that make sense?

 

Recordings these days often sound sterile. Not only are orchestra noises like page turns, creaking chairs and breathing removed. But the way music is often recorded now, groups of musicians recorded separately and everything combined in the edit suite can make you lose the feeling thats it's an orchestra, in a room, with microphones.

 

For film music that probably isnt really seen as an issue. Since it isnt music composed to be listened to on it's own. But yeah it sucks.

 

 

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Many recordings in the '70s had a dry sound with little ambience and reverberation. A long time ago, a friend of mine thought Star Wars ('A New Hope' to you, guys) was recorded with a chamber orchestra precisely because of that dry sound.

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13 minutes ago, Alexcremers said:

Many recordings in the '70s had a dry sound with little ambience and reverberation. A long time ago, a friend of mine thought Star Wars ('A New Hope' to you, guys) was recorded with a chamber orchestra precisely because of that dry sound.

 

Well, those LPs where meant to be played on hi-fi systems using tube amplifiers.

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Haven't heard it in years.  I'd forgotten how lovely the slow "second movement" is.  Camille is at his best when eschewing Teutonic heaviness for his native French sensuality!  That countermelody when the theme repeats the first time.... :wub:

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