The Patriot (John Williams)

[karelm 2,903]

I never saw the Patriot and never really listened to the score.  How is the film and score, worth exploring?

[Jurassic Shark 12,024]

Yes.

[artguy360 1,843]

The score is quite good. I like the love theme, the patriotic main theme, the orchestrations (they have a period vibe), and the haunted theme. The score is far better than the film.

[Holko 9,499]

I watched it more times than it deserves as a kid, we also watched it in class to get a moderated fun rough view of the Revolutionary War. (Teachers saying Lucius Malfoy didn't actually burn churches and so - we also watched Holy Grail and Life of Brian, this was awarded the same amount of seriousness.)

 

The main patriotic theme is pretty bland, the haunted one (is that the one in the very very opening?) is better. Don't actually remember much about the score, never thought to seek it out and only learned it was JW much later!

[Tom 4,633]

1 minute ago, Holko said:

I watched it more times than it deserves as a kid, we also watched it in class to get a moderated fun rough view of the Revolutionary War. (Teachers saying Lucius Malfoy didn't actually burn churches and so - we also watched Holy Grail and Life of Brian, this was awarded the same amount of seriousness.)

 

I find those sorts of criticisms very double-standardish.  If a person likes the movie, then they say it is a film, not a documentary; if they don't, then it is historically inaccurate and bad.  Sort of like The King's Speech--if the guy can speak perfectly with headphones on, just wear the damn headphones for the national addresses.  

[Will 2,215]

The section beginning here is awesome, probably the best moment in the score imho:

 

 

That brass! 

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

I like this score.

[Jurassic Shark 12,024]

It's miles better than Stepmom.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

What isn't?

[Jurassic Shark 12,024]

Rosewood. That's just better.

[SteveMc 2,674]

1 hour ago, karelm said:

I never saw the Patriot and never really listened to the score.  How is the film and score, worth exploring?

The film is overdone, but the score is pretty great.  Listen to the score on its own, it works better that way.

[Thor 7,463]

The film is really good, IMO. The sheer physical intensity of Mel's acting alone is worth the ticket.

 

The score is also very enjoyable, even though it feels a bit "by the numbers", and the theme bears an uncanny resemblance to the AMISTAD theme.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

A shepherd must tend his flock and at times, fight off the wolves.

 

 

This track is a bit cloying but the ending is fucking awesome. 

[Jurassic Shark 12,024]

34 minutes ago, Thor said:

The film is really good, IMO. The sheer physical intensity of Mel's acting alone is worth the ticket.

 

It's Braveheart set in 18th century America. Of course it's worth watching! Although it's far more exaggerated...

 

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

It's better than Braveheart.

[karelm 2,903]

Ok, just saw the film.  I liked it for its revenge fantasy heapings.  Sometimes a guy needs to get his revenge fix...*cough* John Wick *cough*.  They did a good job of building that up to the point of ridiculousness but I expected that right away from the opening pacifist Mel and kids wanting to go to war sequence and it certainly delivered on that revenge fantasy theme.  Music was definitely good and exciting, moving when it needed to be.  Sort of reminded me of War Horse and Far & Away musically which is not a bad thing.  This is definitely not a gritty, lived in version of history but a polished, Hollywood entertainment version and that is what was expected and it delivered on that. 

 

@SteveMc see bold.

[SteveMc 2,674]

First impressions of the score?

[Not Mr. Big 4,639]

6 hours ago, Holko said:

The main patriotic theme is pretty bland

WTF?

[Tom 4,633]

4 hours ago, Thor said:

The score is also very enjoyable, even though it feels a bit "by the numbers", and the theme bears an uncanny resemblance to the AMISTAD theme.

Not to mention Unfinished Journey.  

[Not Mr. Big 4,639]

The Patriot beats the shit out of Amistad and The Unfinished Journey

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

Yeah and it's more masculine and testosterone-fueled. It's just better.

[Jurassic Shark 12,024]

9 hours ago, Will said:

The section beginning here is awesome, probably the best moment in the score imho:

 

 

That brass! 

 

My favourite part of the score is the first few minutes of the OST - the pastoral intro before the main theme sets in.

 

 

7 hours ago, Thor said:

The score is also very enjoyable, even though it feels a bit "by the numbers", 

 

I don't think he had much time writing it, as he replaced David Arnold after scoring had begun.

[Josh500 1,615]

15 hours ago, Will said:

The section beginning here is awesome, probably the best moment in the score imho:

 

 

That brass! 

 

JW was channeling Far and Away here, methinks... It's nearly as good. 

[Not Mr. Big 4,639]

I remember thinking at first that the Centropolis logo was part of the movie.  Like they were showing the prosperous future and would flash back to the American Revolution to show "what led us to this moment"

 

[Oomoog the Ecstatic 314]

The main character, Benjamin Martin I think the name is, plays Mel Gibson.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

The Ghost.

[Josh500 1,615]

I've always liked this scene a lot, one of the gentler moments of this rather violent movie. This passage might be tracked ("Susan Speaks" on the OST album features different music, if memory serves me correctly), but JW simply nails it. Gentle, emotional, gripping... without sounding corny. From 1:15 onward. 

 

 

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

It's about family.

[Marc 758]

Sure, many things in these score seem reminiscent of other scores such as Far & Away and Amistad ( sometimes it also reminds me of Seven Years In Tibet ) and the movie itself might not be the best movie ever..

Yet, I actually really like this score !

Especially some of the slow cues which I find really poignant, plus all of those gorgeous horn moments of course

This one for example : 

 

 

[crumbs 14,300]

Gosh I hope Mike is working on this for next year's anniversary! Such an underrated score.

 

Kinda funny that Emmerich's next film is a remake/retelling of Midway. Williams scored the original film over 40 years ago! Shame Roland is just wedded to Wanker and Kloser now; his films were far more redeeming with composers like Arnold and Williams holding things together.

[Jurassic Shark 12,024]

55 minutes ago, crumbs said:

Wanker

 

No need to be impolite!

[Thor 7,463]

I think he changed his name to Wander when he moved to the US.

[Edmilson 7,384]

I have to say, I really love The Patriot. It's such a wonderful score, and also: it's very diverse. 

 

It has a beautiful love theme for the Heath Ledger character (Ann and Gabriel), some very warm and emotional Americana (Susan Speaks, The Family Farm), tragedy (The Burning of the Plantation, The Parish Church Aflame), but also some spectacular action music (Tavington's Trap), some heroic tunes (I love the trumpets on Facing the British Lines) and a haunting motif on trumpet for Mel Gibson's character's dark past (Remembering the Wilderness). The main theme is also very exciting, and I'm not even american!

 

In many ways, The Patriot is some sort of culmination of Williams' 1990s. It's like the more emotional tunes of Amistad and Far and Away were combined with the action music of The Lost World and The Phantom Menace. It has even some Home Alone-ish music on To Charleston!

 

Also, the music works really well within the movie, which is pretty terrible, but Williams' music helps elevate the horrible material.

 

It's a hugely underrated score. The OST is pretty decent, but it left out a lot of great music - like at the beginning of the movie, when Gabriel goes to war and writes a letter to his family detailing the suffering he has endured. I would love a Matessino treatment for this one, with the complete and chronological score.

[crumbs 14,300]

Plus alternates! If any exist... 

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

It has a tendency to get very masculine and testosterone-fueled. Some pretty badass moments like the eerie trumpet solo when Mel Gibson recalls his war crimes in a Quintian scene, the battle stuff and the heroic renditions of the main theme, such as when he rides on horseback carrying the flag. The movie lent itself to this raw musical masculinity and I think Williams really delivered something cool.

[Amer 2,080]

How much unreleased music is there from the film, not including any alternates? 

[Edmilson 7,384]

Well, I haven't watched the movie in years, but as far as I can remember, there's the scene that I mentioned (Gabriel's letters), another one at the beginning of the movie when the family sees the North Star, some stuff from the battle scenes and I guess a few more performances of Gibson's haunting trumpet motif. I also don't think the OST has much music (if any) from most of the second act, when Gibson forms a militia fighting a guerrilla war with the British.

 

I think there could be about 30 minutes of unreleased stuff, but to be more precise I'd have to watch the movie again - something that I have absolutely no desire to do, because it's very bad. But I would buy the expanded version for the letters scene alone, it's one of my Holy Grails.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

There's a "microedit" (Copyright JWfan?) at the end of the first part of The Colonial Cause which is the flag scene where Williams winds it down with a very patriotic flute and descending fanfare.

[Amer 2,080]

I haven't revisited the movie in ages and it was one of the first blu ray movies I had bought when the new medium was exploding. I do love the main theme and the score album is alright but it didnt make much of an impression to me as a whole. So I hope a new remastered expansion would do it justice. Id love to hear the high res transfer that Mike Matessino does so superbly. I hope this project was being pursued before the Sony lockdown.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

The Blu-ray had the inferior extended version. It does have a scene weirdly similar to the wretched War of the Worlds (2005) with bodies floating down a river.

[crumbs 14,300]

1 hour ago, Amer said:

I hope this project was being pursued before the Sony lockdown.

 

I think LLL only had two Sony projects in the pipeline before the ban. We're yet to see what either release was, or if they even survived Sony's policy change. 

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

 

[Edmilson 7,384]

This Sony lockdown was very unfortunate. A lot of great scores from Sony movies could have used an expansion, like The Patriot and Horner's Legends of the Fall (OST has pretty much all the highlights, but there's about 20 minutes of unreleased music, including a few cues worth exploring and the film version of Off To War). 

 

Expanded editions of Raimi's Spidey trilogy could have been nice too. For example, Elfman's music for the classic train battle between Peter and Doc Ock on the second film was replaced by a new version by Christopher Young, but only the Elfman version is available on the OST - Young's version is still unreleased (officially, there's bootlegs all over the internet). And that's without even mentioning the fact that Young's (great) score for the third movie didn't receive an official release until this day, which is bizarre.

[Corellian2019 383]

The album was released on Hollywood Records, not Sony Music

[Jay 37,281]

People still seem to constantly confuse Sony Music with Sony Pictures

[Holko 9,499]

I have no idea why that could be!

[Jurassic Shark 12,024]

I wonder why.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

It's baffling.

[Edmilson 7,384]

1 hour ago, Corellian2019 said:

The album was released on Hollywood Records, not Sony Music

 

Sorry, I didn't understood the terms of the new deal. 

 

But so, that means an expansion is not off the tables? Well, if so, that's great!

 

I just looked at the other Sony movies I mentioned. Legends of the Fall OST was released in 1995 by Epic Soundtrax. But the Spidey score albums were released by Columbia, which is now part of the Sony Music Entertainment.

[Jay 37,281]

See here to understand better.