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What happened to the choir?


Sandor

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It just occured to me that Williams didn't infuse his scores with choir parts since 2005's Revenge Of The Sith.

 

Ok, I know there is some subtle choral writing in scores like Lincoln or The Force Awakens, but that is limited to a single cue and used more atmospheric as opposed to actually supporting central themes like it did in ROTS.

 

I know Williams didn't write a lot of scores since 2005, but the 12 years gap is substantial and noteworthy especially since scores like The BFG, TFA or KOTCS were easy candidates for prevalent choir additions and would have possible enhanced them even further. I've always felt that cues like Call Of The Crystal or Dream Country would have been even more interesting if supported by a choir.

 

So is it just as simple that Williams felt the scores since ROTS wouldn't benefit from more prominent choral parts? Was it a deliberate and creative choice? Or did the four scoring assignments in 2005 take its toll and Williams adjusted his composing and arranging choices since then?

 

Or am I just overthinking it?

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I think ROTS had choir because George Lucas loved the epic-sounding Duel of the Fates and wanted a repeat.

 

If you go through each decade of Williams' stuff, there are large swaths of time that there is no "big choir."  I'm sure he's not averse, but he's waiting for the right time to use it.  The sensibility of modern films and modern scores certainly pooh-poohs big choir to some extent as well.

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1 minute ago, mstrox said:

I think ROTS had choir because George Lucas loved the epic-sounding Duel of the Fates and wanted a repeat.

 

If you go through each decade of Williams' stuff, there are large swaths of time that there is no "big choir."  I'm sure he's not averse, but he's waiting for the right time to use it.  The sensibility of modern films and modern scores certainly pooh-poohs big choir to some extent as well.

 

Probably true.

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Just now, Disco Stu said:

My favorite use of choir in a Williams score is definitely Close Encounters, where it mostly serves as subtle coloration.  That's generally my favorite way he uses choir, to add an "otherworldliness" on top of the orchestra.

 

Yes, that's why I think The BFG could have benefited so much from this coloring, almost literally in this regard...

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Weirdly enough I was thinking this today when Look Down, Lord shuffled onto my iPod. After being surprised by the extensive use of choir in the Star Wars prequels, I became accustomed to that 'sound' in the series, so it was a mild disappointment that TFA basically abandoned the prequel style. I'd love it if there were extended choral passages in TLJ but I don't think that's the film Johnson's made (nor do we have any hints of choir being involved thus far).

 

In hindsight, I think Williams heavily relied on chorus in the prequels to provide the human voice and drama that was clearly absent from the films themselves. From a selfish perspective I wish he'd return to that prequel style of being indulgent and overscoring, unlike TFA which fit the film like a glove but rarely drew attention to itself.

 

The recent recording of Dry Your Tears, Afrika reminded me just how incredible Williams is at writing for the human voice; quite often it's more engrossing than his writing for orchestra. He's seemingly abandoned the use of choir as a 'primary texture' since ROTS. No idea what changed but it's a pity.

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Maybe LA Hollywood choirs just really suck?  Plus their licencing fees are pretty hefty and stringent from what I've heard.  I know that John Powell separates his choral segments into individual tracks to avoid them getting credit for the entire track.  

I doubt any of this would be a concern for Williams though.  He's probably just moved away from it stylistically.  

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Mr. Williams needs to move back to it, stylistically! Fees be damned; Disney's forking out the cash anyway.

 

4 minutes ago, Not Mr. Big said:

Maybe LA Hollywood choirs just really suck?

 

What choir performed on the new Williams/Spielberg release? They were very impressive I thought.

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3 minutes ago, Not Mr. Big said:

I doubt any of this would be a concern for Williams though.  He's probably just moved away from it stylistically.  

I think it largely depends on what the director and Williams think to be appropriate for any given film. E.g. TFA has choir only for Snoke in the deep basso profundo register which draws connection to the Sith and Palpatine specifically which seems like a obvious connection and is there to give Snoke a unique ambience with a sense of continuity with the SW safa and a feel of mystery at the same time.

 

 

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The way Williams uses the choir in his scores (which could probably be deemed more traditionally rooted usage than, say, Powell's efforts) lends a certain exaggerated dramatic effect to a piece of music, a sentiment of grandeur. I believe the oft frowned upon term epic might apply here very well, since the choir and its dramatic effect were a substantial factor in many a Greek theatrical epoch. Remember that in classical music, the choir was reserved for these very evocations of grandeur, paired with some form of epic storytelling - masses, requiems, passions, almost sacral symphonies (e.g. Mahler's/Beethoven's Ninth). To be honest it's this connotation that renders a lot of modern choir writing in film scores to appear a bit clumsy and tongue-in-cheek, in my opinion.

 

The Star Wars Prequels (and the Harry Potter films too) were films that (regardless of their failures) fell back upon the tradition of grand, epic storytelling, the former in an almost biblical fashion. And even then, notice how Williams reserves the choir for certain climactic points in the dramatic arch for maximum effect. I think TFA and the rest of Williams' recent film work simply can't compare to the former because of the radical differences in storytelling, drama and overall mood. (And aside from that, it's also a reason why I would prefer the prequels to TFA).*

 

*All of this could be a load of bullshite.

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7 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

;)

 

Just kidding, you have a point.

 

Not sure about your "radical differences in story telling" argument though. Could you explain?

 

Well, the prequels are this grand epic biblical drama, with an actual story arch, etc. An average screenplay can't compare to that in terms of development and structure.

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I didnt know you were a prequel lover.

 

In terms of scale you are correct. In terms of development and structure there is a lot one could say against the Prequels' use of choir.

It's application is somewhat inconsistent to say the least. Being brought out in epic proportions in the first film in a way that's never really watched by the other two.

I also think that the use of the big epic choir was something of a fad in the late 90's/early 200's. With the Choir Of The Apocalypse being used frequently by many a media ventures project, and of course Howard Shore.

 

I fully expect the next SW film and especially Episode 9 to use the choir more than TFA did. I actually like how JJ had Williams do a back to basics approach.

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Who the hell is this Irwin Allen???

 

Lost in Space
Land of the Giants
Poseidon Adventure
Towering Inferno

 

Okay, okay, okay....

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5 minutes ago, Selina Kyle said:

The Time Tunnel...

 

Ah yes... I'm really not familiar with the TV scores of John Williams (to be honest, I really don't care about any of them)

 

So it's a great collaboration after all.

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Choirs are best when used sparingly and in some more specific and defined way. And, better yet, in an unexpected way. The worst way to go is just to throw them in to create those big moments. It just makes everything sound so cheap, funnily enough. Makes big expensive film music of today sound like cheap trailer rush job. There's too much choir being used like that in modern score so I'm all for no vocals at all in big scores.

 

Plus there are not that many composers who can really use a choir in an interesting way. As much as I enjoy much of Michael Giacchino's score, I do tend to cringe when I hear his choral works.

 

Karol

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