What do you think about group scoring?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

12 hours ago, Koray Savas said:

 

Genius is genius, regardless of how many are involved. No one makes a film alone, just like no one writes and records a score on their own. The entire process is collaborative. 

 

But is it art?

[Naïve Old Fart 9,493]

13 hours ago, Koray Savas said:

Genius is genius, regardless of how many are involved. No one makes a film alone, just like no one writes and records a score on their own. The entire process is collaborative. 

 

So, I guess that the "auteur" theory doesn't work, for you?

Yes, film making is a collaborative ptocess, but someone has to take responsibility for the end result, and that person is the director.

 

The best group score I ever heard, is for FLASH GORDON.

[Quintus 5,399]

That's the idea, but not always the case. Poltergeist is all Tobe Hooper's work? 

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Yes it is!

[Quintus 5,399]

So much so that Spielberg didn't feel obliged to take out a page ad in the newspaper denying he was making it! 

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Exactly! He had nothing to do with it whatsoever!

[Naïve Old Fart 9,493]

Both POLTERGEIST, and E.T. were the victims of union rules.

No director could direct two films at the same time, hence the appointment of Hooper as "director".

A lot of ink has been spilled over the years about POLTERGEIST, but, honestly - and even to this day - it's Tobe Hooper Vs Steven fucking Spielberg. Who do you really think is going to win..?

[Quintus 5,399]

I know, I was only being a cheap bastard by pulling out an extreme case anyway. But of all the creative mediums, filmmaking is one of the more a collaborative processes, as any director will attest to, even the auteurs. 

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

You can't do a one on one comparison between what Spielberg does and what John Williams does anyway.

[Thor 7,462]

29 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

Exactly! He had nothing to do with it whatsoever!

 

That's not correct. The story was his, as were a number of aesthetic directions. The film is basically Spielberg channeled through some Hooper-isms.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Unofficially! That was never confirmed.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

4 minutes ago, Thor said:

 

That's not correct. The story was his, as were a number of aesthetic directions. The film is basically Spielberg channeled through some Hooper-isms.

 

You are a very serious person.

[Thor 7,462]

2 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

Unofficially! That was never confirmed.

 

That the production had a very 'fussy' status in regards to who directed it has been confirmed many times. So that "Spielberg had nothing to do with it" is demonstrably false. Wikipedia has assembled some of the sources on this, under 'creative credit': https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poltergeist_(1982_film)

[Jay 37,281]

47 minutes ago, Quintus said:

Poltergeist is all Tobe Hooper's work? 

 

46 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

Yes it is!

 

43 minutes ago, Quintus said:

So much so that Spielberg didn't feel obliged to take out a page ad in the newspaper denying he was making it! 

 

41 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

Exactly! He had nothing to do with it whatsoever!

 

10 minutes ago, Thor said:

That's not correct. The story was his, as were a number of aesthetic directions. The film is basically Spielberg channeled through some Hooper-isms.

 

Thor, come on.  You couldn't tell Stefan was joking around?  Wow.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Thor does not have the ability to distinguish and understand humour. 

[Jay 37,281]

Even obvious ones like that sequence of posts, though?  Wow.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

8 minutes ago, Jay said:

Even obvious ones like that sequence of posts, though?  Wow.

 

Laughter kills fear, and without fear there can be no faith, because without fear of the Devil there is no more need of God. - Thor

[Jay 37,281]

The internet needs a sarcasm font.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I wouldn't use it

[Quintus 5,399]

That'd be my least used font. I currently use 27 different ones, too. 

[Thor 7,462]

58 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

Thor does not have the ability to distinguish and understand humour. 

 

This is correct. Especially when it comes to JWFAN humour.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

That's funny!

[Quintus 5,399]

34 minutes ago, Thor said:

 

This is correct. Especially when it comes to JWFAN humour.

 

If you're being honest here, why do you think this is? Does it not bother you? 

[KK 3,307]

23 hours ago, TheGreyPilgrim said:

Ghostwriting is a despicable, lazy practice that should be avoided by any self respecting composer and I don't buy any of the arguments for why one might have "no choice" but to engage in it. 

 

Genuine collaborative scoring is fine and I dig plenty of scores done that way. 

 

This.

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

1 hour ago, Thor said:

This is correct. Especially when it comes to JWFAN humour.

 

My Aspiedar is pinging...

[Thor 7,462]

33 minutes ago, Quintus said:

 

If you're being honest here, why do you think this is? Does it not bother you? 

 

[Quintus 5,399]

👍

[nightscape94 965]

Music by committee basically gets the result it deserves.  While I will not rule out the possibility that this method could succeed, the basic idea of creating a singular voice among several composers almost requires and invites generic musical writing to maintain a consistent thread.  I do agree that artistically, if the end result is good, then it's good.  There are no doubt many composers that could pull this off while still writing quality music.  It would be disingenuous to dismiss something solely on the basis of method.  I don't require purity of one composer to enjoy music that is, on its own, still enjoyable.  However, by design, I feel it is more likely to fail than not.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Agreed!

[Quintus 5,399]

Load of crap, IMO. 

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

It's just a personal preference Lee, nothing to get worked up about. No need to feel prissy and insecure.

[Quintus 5,399]

No it's not that though, and you should drop that childish mockery angle, for the reason I explained on the first page. I just think nighty's post amounted to classic weasel words. He attempted to make a statement of sorts, but ended up contradicting himself and after obviously being unsure about anything anyway, landed on a "well I just think its this way coz" conclusion. You know what a persuasive argument is, right? Well that wasn't it. 

 

If you really need me to, and if I really have to (because I actually can't be bothered), I'll go over his post in detail for you and respond to each individual point he attempted to make. But I feel I already went over this fairly thoroughly earlier and don't want to have to repeat myself, because that's the absolute worst. 

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I know your opinion about this already, and I understand it. I just disagree. Which you seem to take offense to.

[Quintus 5,399]

No, but your offhanded jibes will get a response. 

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I know you love it, bitch!

[nightscape94 965]

7 hours ago, Quintus said:

No it's not that though, and you should drop that childish mockery angle, for the reason I explained on the first page. I just think nighty's post amounted to classic weasel words. He attempted to make a statement of sorts, but ended up contradicting himself and after obviously being unsure about anything anyway, landed on a "well I just think its this way coz" conclusion. You know what a persuasive argument is, right? Well that wasn't it. 

 

If you really need me to, and if I really have to (because I actually can't be bothered), I'll go over his post in detail for you and respond to each individual point he attempted to make. But I feel I already went over this fairly thoroughly earlier and don't want to have to repeat myself, because that's the absolute worst. 

 

And you shouldn't be bothered, because it's completely unnecessary to comb over a post line by line.  It smacks of assholery.  You clearly disagree, and there are others that agree, but you come off as high and mighty in this post, coming just short of claiming your opinion is beyond reproach.  I see nothing in my post to warrant such a response, and quite frankly, you should have responded to me directly instead of in this off-handed manner.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

1 minute ago, nightscape94 said:

comb over

 

TRIGGERED

[Quintus 5,399]

41 minutes ago, nightscape94 said:

 

And you shouldn't be bothered, because it's completely unnecessary to comb over a post line by line.  It smacks of assholery.  You clearly disagree, and there are others that agree, but you come off as high and mighty in this post, coming just short of claiming your opinion is beyond reproach. I see nothing in my post to warrant such a response, and quite frankly, you should have responded to me directly instead of in this off-handed manner.

 

I would have gladly done so had Stefancos not already chipped in on your behalf in the way he tends to do. So first and foremost you should consider my post a response to him instead of yourself. Unfortunately you were the unwitting third party in what followed, but that doesn't change the fact I still think your contribution was ambiguous and vague nonsense. 

 

The high and mighty part I can live with, I accept your accusation and grievance there. 

[nightscape94 965]

Sorry by post was unhelpful.  Should we then move onto the male-pattern baldness symposium?

 

 

[Naïve Old Fart 9,493]

The question is: what makes a director feel the he/she needs two, or more composers for their film. What will having two composers achieve, that having one composer will not? What can two composers bring to the project, and what will be the difficulties of having two composers?

[Quintus 5,399]

What I really wish my follicles could provide is a bouffant cut, like what Drax wears. I'd be a pure fanny magnet! 

[Naïve Old Fart 9,493]

Fanny magnet?! Lee, you're married, for Pete's sake!! You've already got access to fanny, bald, or no.

[nightscape94 965]

Sounds a bit old fashioned, but you could have a David Lynch thing going.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,493]

I'm sure your wife loves you, whether you have hair, or not.

[Quintus 5,399]

He has incredible hair. Sadly I've got absolutely no chance of emulating it. 

 

8 minutes ago, Richard said:

Fanny magnet?! Lee, you're married, for Pete's sake!

 

Ask any young married bloke and they'll tell you that has the effect of increasing the magnetic pull, weirdly. 

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Judging by the Fast and Furious movies, it seems bald is in. You've got The Rock, Mark Sinclair, that pommie bloke, etc. In any other franchise like 007 for example, the producers would have insisted on toupees for everyone.

[Thor 7,462]

44 minutes ago, Richard said:

The question is: what makes a director feel the he/she needs two, or more composers for their film. What will having two composers achieve, that having one composer will not? What can two composers bring to the project, and what will be the difficulties of having two composers?

 

Well, there could be any number of considerations here. Like say, SWORDFISH. Chris Young is very versatile, but he can't do electronica as well as Paul Oakenfold. So it makes sense to have two composers, given the particular style they were going for. In this case, it meshed well. Same with Kamen and Orbital on EVENT HORIZON etc.

[nightscape94 965]

1 hour ago, Godzilla said:

Judging by the Fast and Furious movies, it seems bald is in. You've got The Rock, Mark Sinclair, that pommie bloke, etc. In any other franchise like 007 for example, the producers would have insisted on toupees for everyone.

Having a bald Bond would go a long way to earn world wide acceptance of the follicly challenged.  I await the day!

[mrbellamy 6,272]

On April 26, 2017 at 10:23 AM, Jay said:

The internet needs a sarcasm font.

 

I think most people do well enough with italics, quotes, exclamation points, general hyperbole etc. Besides that, tagging a little /s at the end of the post seems to get the job done for those who care about whether or not their post will read to the Thors of the world

 

Anyway, I'm all for "group scoring" in the collaborative sense. A pop/rock band or an established duo like the Danna bros....I think I'm a little confused reading this thread but are there really arguments against that? I don't get it, especially if they're working cue-by-cue together. I'm guessing a singular vision would be harder to maintain and just plain inefficient writing for a 100-piece orchestra, though, as opposed to a 4-piece rock band or an all-electronics piece where the finished product is forming right in front of you. But like, Good Dinosaur was wonderful recently.

 

Ghostwriting obviously is a  and I don't really like the idea of any collaboration that takes the Oprah approach: "You get a cue, you get a cue, everybody gets a cue!!!" You'd be lucky to make it to a cohesive whole that way and it's not really a collaboration at all, unless I suppose you're constantly reconvening and swapping each other's work like some screenwriter partners who might each take a few scenes then regroup. But no idea how well that would work on a modern post-production schedule...definitely not for some kind of intricately leitmotivic and/or fully orchestral piece. I don't have that much insight into how the Dannas do it or like how Zimmer/JNH did the Batmans. Anybody?

[Quintus 5,399]

35 minutes ago, mrbellamy said:

 

 

Anyway, I'm all for "group scoring" in the collaborative sense. A pop/rock band or an established duo ...I think I'm a little confused reading this thread but are there really arguments against that?

 

That's just it - so far in the thread, there aren't any. The naysayers and denial fanboys choose not to address the collaborative band problem, instead skirting around it and sticking doggedly to the "well I just think solo has to be better coz" dogma. I mean, is this even a debate?

 

And no, simply disagreeing with somebody is not equivalent to providing a robust alternative view. Had somebody like Thor unexpectedly taken issue with the group compositional ethic vs going solo, I would have fully expected to see such a well thought out rebuttal from him. Instead we got Steef, with his John Williams CDs.