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I believe that Isaac was just a puppet in the Kaylon's plan and honestly didn't know of their plans. I don't think the Kaylons would be worried about Isaac accidentally divulging information, but if he were to be compromised or captured and dissected for information, it would be a liability if the invasion plans were there. 

 

Remember, Isaac was first coming to terms with the story of the Kaylons killing their masters and questioning the Primary's actions because he was tainted with human compassion, and so young as to have not experienced it firsthand. I think if he knew of those plans earlier, he would have begun second guessing his mission sooner. 

 

~§~

 

The big question that I have is, now that Isaac has turned against his race, will they still be able to track him? When he was an observer of biologicals, did he upload only at certain intervals or was he constantly uploading his data? After all, the Kaylons activated his killswitch while he was just going about his day, not sitting down to send data home, unless he was always in full duplex mode communication at all time. 

 

Has he now severed that link, or will he remain a target for the next revenge fleet? If I'm the Kaylons, they'll send one ship with a time machine and go back to prevent first contact... 

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Overall, what an excellent 2-parter 'Identity' was ... as previously mentioned, the space battle in the second part is the sort of thing you normally see reserved for season finales.

I hope the Kaylons stay villains ... there's no drama without conflict, after all.   

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I think I'm just trying to see Talla as an extension or continuation of Allara without interruption. Allara had a pleasant air about her as a result of her youth, while Talla reminds me of a no-nonsense street urchin from the slums of New York or New Jersey, minus any accent. Maybe the rumors of Allara's return are true and that's making Talla a bit unpleasant in her performance. 

 

The episode definitely telegraphs Orrin's intentions with his sleuthing and the suspicion the weapon agent is biological. I was almost convinced Gordon was sympathetic until Talla showed up. The ending was too abrupt by not showing the fate of the girl or the anger of the Krill in not having a prisoner to torture, but I'm sure they were just grateful to avoid being the fifth ship and knowing that was foremost on the O's agenda. 

 

@Jay if you thought it weird seeing Isaac on the bridge with a handful of speaking words, did you also think it strange he was with the whole crew at the wedding ceremony in the cold open in, for a lack of better word, Ten-Forward? He did not clap but his blue eyes were there. Lidless. Staring. Like a doll's eyes. 

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On 3/8/2019 at 10:14 AM, Jay said:

The Orville 2x10 Blood of Patriots

 

Another good episode!  Certainly a more subdued, laid back episode - which is to be expected after the epic and expensive 2-parter, so I wasn't surprised or disappointed at all - until the end, when things got exciting!  This show does these kind of episodes really well, these kind of mystery episodes where something is going on but you don't know what, and you don't know which characters will figure it out, and then it always comes together very well at the end.

 

I loved that Yaphet got a medal at the beginning, that was so cool!  Only bummer was that the scene was incredibly short, and then he didn't appear again in the episode!

 

Seeing Isaac on the bridge halfway through the episode was a bit jarring after everything that happened, kinda weird to just kinda see him going there business as usual... kind of a reset button effect, even the the opening of the episode directly referenced what happened...

 

I am still not warming up to Talla at all, Alara would have handled all these situations better (the actress and the character).   This character swap is certainly the biggest bummer of the second season.

 

Debney's score was cool!  Mostly subdued for the first half or 2/3 of the episode, then full of awesome homages to Horner's Trek scores for the final parts.  Cool stuff!

 

I completely agree with everything you said.  I also liked to get more backstory of some of the characters like Malloy who I've previously found shallow and comic relief.  This episode did put him in an ethical quandary and didn't disappoint.  Score was excellent with all the 80's references.  One thing I wouldn't mind a bit more of is crew triangles/complex relationships.  Sort of like Bones/Spock banter.  The trio dynamic is a big part of what made Star Trek great which this show is obviously indebted to but seems to make the crew dynamics too squeaky clean.  I get that they are trying to complicate Ed and Grayson's story but they don't really have great chemistry.  Their history is frankly boring.  Still a very good and enjoyable show, I just feel there are some missed opportunities keeping it from being great.

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I think the problem there is that Seth Macfarlane isn't really a good actor at all, and he knows it, so he kinda writes all the episodes so he doesn't have to ever do any really heavy lifting.  But they constantly make the Ed/Kelly lova saga a central part of the show, so that kinda drags things down and highlights his deficiencies.  It's been quite nice the last few weeks they haven't really mentioned it at all actually.

 

No new episode this week :(

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How would anybody in JWFan know that?  Only some Fox executive knows that, if he's even made his decision yet.

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Blood of Patriots was a good episode. Felt like the style of a classic story from TNG. I thought immediately when they said there were no weapons onboard that; "okay, so his daughter is the weapon, and she's not his daughter. She's something else." And I was right. I guess I really have watched a hell of a lot of sci-fi shows throughout my life, that these types of twists are obvious to me now. 

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 1/18/2019 at 7:32 PM, Jay said:

AWSOME SCORE by McNeely this week!  One of the best of the whole show so far.  Wonderful suspense and action music throughout, the highlight being the great action cue when the new bad guys attacked the Krill ship and they had to escape to the planet.  It was great!  It featured a nice homage to Belly of the Steel Beast from Last Crusade

 

 

 

Don't you mean Desert Chase? Raiders was even recalled directly in the script.

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On 3/28/2019 at 3:05 PM, Quintus said:

 

Don't you mean Desert Chase? Raiders was even recalled directly in the script.

 

I don't remember now 3 months later, but no, I remember at the time hearing an homage to Belly of the Steel Beast in that cue.  Have you seen the episode?

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Yeah, it was the one dud episode of the season I've seen so far. Absolutely awful actually.

 

But all the rest, I'm absolutely loving them. We're about 5-6 episodes into it now, and tbh The Orville is probably my favourite TV show at the moment. The first handful of installments this season have been really really good, I can feel a step up in quality from S1.

 

I disagree about MacFarlane's acting btw. I think he's perfectly fine in this. Charming, even.

 

Edit: just realised I'm confusing the episode I thought was shit. I was referring to the birthday one before. Absolutely dire. The one with the Desert Chase-esque music was a good episode!

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The Orville 2x11 Lasting Impressions

 

Another good episode!  I enjoyed the Gordon / Leighton Meester story very much.  I do wonder if any love story on this show will ever have a happy ending, as we've now seen Ed, Kelly, Claire, and Gordon all have love stories that failed.

 

The Bortus & Klyden addicted to cigarettes B story was hilarious!  Not sure if anything will ever be as funny as that time Bortus had that moustache, but every beat of this little story was amusing and funny.

 

Debney's score was interesting.  For the first time, it reminded me of a prior Orville score instead of an old, classic film score.  It reminded me of McNeely's Mad Idolatry score (I think tha'ts the right one).  I might have to re-listen to the Orville S1 OST to be sure!

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I used to be dismissive of anything user contributed in regards to movies and games etc. But nowadays I pay more attention to those randomer consensus ratings than I do actual professional reviews. In my experience, I find Steam reviews of games, or the likes of brief IMDB summaries to be more accurate. End of the day, if someone has taken their time to write a short and reasonably eloquent review about a movie or an episode they saw, they're likely just as much a "buff" about these things as I am. Same as everyone else bothering to post on a message board like this one. So-called professional critics have been letting me down for years, and I don't find them reliable anymore.

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18 minutes ago, Yavar Moradi said:

What other indicator do we have for assessing the reception of an individual episode of a show?

 

Yavar

 

Oh I dunno.  I just personally never look up that kind of stuff.  I just like what I like and don't like what I don't like.  Like with movies, rotten tomatoes scores mean nothing to me.  I just watch what I wanna watch and skip what I wanna skip and a RT score will never swing my vote either way

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I agree Quintus. The critics rating and audience rating for The Orville (compared with Star Trek: Discovery) were the nail in the coffin, for me, in terms of deciding which consensus to go by. :)

 

Yavar

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S1 of The Orville was panned by critics was it not? Thank Christ I paid no mind to them. Absolutely blimmin' useless, those guys don't know their arse from their elbow: this show has been ace from the beginning!

 

In comparison, Discovery was like Chinese water torture.

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I have no memory of this scene, but then I see it's a deleted scene. I don't own TNG on physical media so I wouldn't have it. 

 

 

The blonde was on Honey I Shrunk the Kids and very little else. 

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We’ve been keeping up with The Orville and I’m sorry to say that season 2 has not improved to my liking (although it is definitely stronger).

 

Not only does TNG have better stories, richer characters, and a more compelling backdrop, TNG is actually funnier than The Orville.  The awkward performances and complete lack of chemistry is actually the show’s biggest weakness IMO.  None of the comic performances are near the level of a Brent Spiner or Michael Dorn (two absolute genius stone faced comic performers at times) .  The comparison might not be fair but the show still comes across as basically fanfic with sex jokes.

 

I won’t belabor the point and rub people the wrong way.  If you enjoy the show, that’s great!  Just wanted to get my season 2 thoughts down.

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I think its a waste of brain power to watch every week and compare everything happening to another show. 

 

Just watch it for what it is and don't worry about all that comparison. 

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19 minutes ago, Jay said:

I think its a waste of brain power to watch every week and compare everything happening to another show. 

 

Just watch it for what it is and don't worry about all that comparison. 

 

It’s not like I’m spending each episode comparing while watching.  It’s in retrospect when I’m trying to decide why the show doesn’t work on ANY level for me.  I wasn’t ever hate-watching, I really really wanted to like The Orville and stuck with it to see if it grew into something I did.  It’s clearly not going to happen and I already took it off the recording schedule.  Not trying to tell anyone they’re wrong to like it.

 

Don’t you ever use a similar thing you do like to explain why something you don’t doesn’t work for you?

 

Also, like, Seth McFarlane is a really bad actor.  One of the worst to ever star in a network show?

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I think there's only two episodes left this season, might be worth watching just to say you gave it a fair shake and watched two complete seasons. Might be 100% of all episodes if it doesn't get renewed. 

 

Of course I've used comparisons like that, sure, but it just seems futile in this specific case. They're not trying to be TNG, and never will be. 

 

And yes, I agree that MacFarlane is a poor actor. I've said so more than once on recent pages of this thread. 

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51 minutes ago, Jay said:

think there's only two episodes left this season, might be worth watching just to say you gave it a fair shake and watched two complete seasons. Might be 100% of all episodes if it doesn't get renewed. 

 

Oh yeah?  I might catch up with them after GoT is done or something.

 

51 minutes ago, Jay said:

They're not trying to be TNG, and never will be. 

 

I mean, Bortus is clearly meant to be a bit Worf-like.  Isaac is clearly meant to be a bit Data-like.  Claire has definite similarities to Dr. Crusher.  They love casting Berman-era Trek actors in guest roles.  Multiple Berman-era directors have directed episodes of The Orville.  Voyager veteran/co-writer of Generations and First Contact Brannon Braga is an executive producer.  The comparisons aren't exactly uninvited.  The logline of this show has always been "TNG + MacFarlane"

 

A MacFarlane/Braga joint I'm really looking forward to, though, is the return of Cosmos that I think is still coming?  I know Tyson got kinda me too'd, but last I heard they were going ahead with the season.

 

Nothing but love and respect for those of you who like The Orville.

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I believe the entire season of Cosmos was already finished. It was only pulled a week or two before it was supposed to begin. 

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2 hours ago, Jay said:

They're not trying to be TNG, and never will be. 

 

You gotta be fucking kidding me right?

 

You, Quintus and about a half dozen others have reccomended this show to me exactly because its feels like TNG, but with jokes!

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That's not the same thing, and also not the reason I recommended it to you. 

 

It obviously takes a ton of inspiration from TNG of course, no one would question that. 

 

But it's not trying to be TNG.  It's carving it's own path. 

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I just prefer the lighter tone of The Orville over something like later Star Trek, which I always saw as being quite drab and repetitive with its weekly moral/technical dilemmas. At least in The Orville the script is self aware with its own weekly quandaries, and it'll send them up for laughs. But not without applying a surprising degree of thoughtfulness first. I honestly think the way they strike a fine balance between drama and comedy is very clever, and not easily done. 

 

6 hours ago, Jay said:

 And yes, I agree that MacFarlane is a poor actor. I've said so more than once on recent pages of this thread. 

 

I'd have no particular interest in seeing MacFarlane take on more serious dramatic work, but I'll reiterate that I think his ability is perfectly fine here in this show. I like him, and I never find myself sitting there going tut tut over the quality of his performance. Also, I don't think Seth sees himself as Sir Patrick Stewart anyway. 

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I think The Orville for me personally is just part of the same problem Discovery has, it's that it's "throwback TV". It's taking something from a show or franchise people enjoyed years ago, and kinda appropriating it. The Orville does it in an affectionate, fun way, and Discovery does it by simply skull-fucking itself into an excising canon.

 

Both feel rather regressive in nature though. And both feels like examples of "fans" taking credit for something done by others.

 

I've watched 4 episodes of S2 of Discovery mainly for social reasons (I'm part of a Trek Discord that devotes a podcast to it), but I'm not really interested in the show itself.

 

From what I've seen of The Orville, I'm also just not very interested. But if others are loving it, go right ahead.

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Yeah I don't really care about whether or not something is progressive or original, I rate being entertained far higher. Although as a straight up homage and love letter to something beloved, I would never have factored originality or "radicalness" into The Orville anyway, as it wouldn't make any sense. With that said, there's a certain irony present even here, considering the postmodern issues this show likes to handle (quite deftly, all things considered), which I know about because I've actually watched it. 

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Please not that I'm not judging The Orville in any way, because I havent seen a single episode. I'm just explaining why I am not really interested in it. It's probably something I would watch along with a friend or relative who likes it, but not on my own.

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I do have the benefit of a watching/laughing partner with this stuff, and there's no doubt it makes a difference. But having thoroughly watched this science fiction series (oh no! Tv sci-fi you say? That's bound not to be for me, Lee D!) I'd absolutely keep watching it alone if Kate wasn't a fan (she is), same as I have to slum it through The Expanse on my lonesome, because she's not interested. 

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We bingewatched four episodes of The Expanse one Sunday, but afterwards, she admitted she didn't want to watch more, so that was that. 24 is also on indefinite hiatus because I know she's not into that.

 

But my lady partner really looks forward to The Orville each week, just like me. We've earned the right to enjoy it because we have already binged through the 21 seasons of Berman-era Star Trek, and are in the middle of S2 of The Original Series as well. There just isn't any more Star Trek left to watch. 

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True Detective finished.  Neither of us were really into The Orville.  Thrones hasn't started yet.  Even the little mini-season of Celebrity Bake-Off is done.  Me and my wife have no appointment television for the moment.  We've been watching a lot of M*A*S*H seasons 6-8 (the golden era of the show for me).

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