Soundforger 13 Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 Since no one has posted this, shame most of this was replaced by "Here they Come". William Walton flavored counterpoint. Will 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artguy360 1,843 Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 7 hours ago, Soundforger said: Since no one has posted this, shame most of this was replaced by "Here they Come". William Walton flavored counterpoint. Was "Here They Come" tracked into ROTJ? I can't recall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,519 Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 2 hours ago, artguy360 said: Was "Here They Come" tracked into ROTJ? I can't recall. Nope, the beginning of Through the Flames was replaced with the end of Escape From Cloud City, and other portions of it were also really butchered. I really hate George's editing style. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cumulonimbus 22 Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 On 2017-6-7 at 0:47 PM, Loert said: Another fugato passage: Yes one of my favorite contrapunctive cues! Also highly contrapunctive (yet not by definition a fugue): Will and Loert 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,519 Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Loert 2,511 Posted June 16, 2017 Author Popular Post Share Posted June 16, 2017 Seems like horns against high violins was a popular combination for Williams' early disaster scores... This is stretching the definition of "counterpoint", but the combination of the main melody in the horns and the counter melody in the violins is unusual - the violins sound almost like they're "floating" outside the harmonic space of the rest of the orchestra. It's anxiety-inducing, but also representative of the flying sequence in the way that the violins climb and soar in the high registers throughout. Again, a lot of horns vs violins in this one. I particularly like 0:54, which shares characteristics with the Hook example in my OP, as well as the entire build-up from 2:22 and when the horns join in at 2:38. Disco Stu, crumbs, Will and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 Could someone explain what is counterpoint in musical contexts? I've used the term myself but not really knowing what it meant, I just wanted to sound like I knew what I was talking about. I just know that it's something ye olde composers used but Hans Zimmer never uses, which supposedly makes him an uneducated philistine of a so-called composer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 Don't use terms and phrases if you don't know what they mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 Counterpoint is the relationship between voices that are harmonically interdependent (polyphony) yet independent in rhythm and contour. It has been most commonly identified in the European classical tradition, strongly developing during the Renaissance and in much of the common practice period, especially in the Baroque. Loert 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 I'm afraid you're gonna have to dumb that down a bit for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 Some kind of magic that makes music better? Will 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post BloodBoal 7,538 Posted June 19, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted June 19, 2017 it's when there's a music that goes like "badaboom tchak tchak boom" and the other music goes "tchaka tchaka zing wing" and both respond to one another. So "badaboom tchak tchak boom?" "tchaka tchaka zing wing!" Marian Schedenig, Loert and Will 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 Ahhh. See, why can't people just be more like BloodBoal? Will and Loert 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loert 2,511 Posted June 19, 2017 Author Share Posted June 19, 2017 As I put in brackets in my OP, it's when you have two or more melodies playing on top of each other. The best counterpoint is that where the melodies "fit", and where each melody also sounds good on its own. For example, if you took the violins in my first video, and shifted them a bar ahead, it wouldn't sound anywhere as good, because Williams has tailored the violin line to "match" the character of the horn line, even though they're both pretty good sounding on their own. The worst counterpoint is when you write two separate, crap melodies and just dunk them together with no consideration for their note-by-note relationship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 8 hours ago, publicist said: Counterpoint is the relationship between voices that are harmonically interdependent (polyphony) yet independent in rhythm and contour. It has been most commonly identified in the European classical tradition, strongly developing during the Renaissance and in much of the common practice period, especially in the Baroque. I concur. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karelm 2,912 Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 Yes, it is literally a Latin translation of "punctus contra punctum" which is "note against note" so as Loert said, its melodic lines that overlap. Each independent line should sound fine on its own but works better when the two (or more) independent lines are played at the same time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharkissimo 1,973 Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 3 hours ago, Loert said: The best counterpoint is that where the melodies "fit", and where each melody also sounds good on its own. How would you apply to the second requirement to atonal counterpoint? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loert 2,511 Posted June 19, 2017 Author Share Posted June 19, 2017 1 hour ago, Sharky said: How would you apply to the second requirement to atonal counterpoint? Whether a line sounds good or not depends on what you want to do within the context of the piece. If you want to write creepy, CE3K-style atonal counterpoint and one of the lines happens to be Jingle Bells, then I guess that's not a very "good" line! Unless you want to specifically use Jingle Bells for some reason, in which case there's no problem, of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naïve Old Fart 9,515 Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 12 hours ago, Sally Spectra said: Some kind of magic that makes music better? Hey. It's a kind of magic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karelm 2,912 Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 10 hours ago, Sharky said: How would you apply to the second requirement to atonal counterpoint? Tonality is based on harmony. Counterpoint is based on melody regardless of a tonal center(tonality). That is how. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will 2,215 Posted July 1, 2017 Share Posted July 1, 2017 The second half of Jaws has so many great moments of counterpoint of the various themes. I discover more every time I listen. One of my favorites here with the low string line and then the high winds: Bellosh and karelm 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabulin 3,511 Posted August 21, 2020 Share Posted August 21, 2020 . Will and Bellosh 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce marshall 1,315 Posted August 21, 2020 Share Posted August 21, 2020 On 6/2/2017 at 12:46 PM, Dixon Hill said: He hasn't written many outright fugues. More so fugato passages that emulate fugal expositions. I wouldn't count fugues. That is a specific form built entirely on strictly contrapuntual lines. Of equal importance I consider counterpoint In film to be when a dominant theme is accompanied by a single, secondary theme Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Bellosh 3,416 Posted August 21, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted August 21, 2020 10:06 of 'Indy's Very First Adventure'. Indy's theme plays over the playful young indy motif. The fact that it plays the Indy theme when we see the dog, Indy, is just another level of genius by JW. Jay, The Illustrious Jerry and Will 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce marshall 1,315 Posted August 21, 2020 Share Posted August 21, 2020 Off the top of my head:: JFK " "Arlington" My all time favorite example of counterpoint in film... 49th Parallel. "Prelude" RVW composed a gorgeous counter melody for French horn to accompany the haunting main them 40 minutes ago, bruce marshall said: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZSqnJN4pts Buyer BEWARE# Avoid any version of this piece that goes past 2:15. Many conductors, including Bernie Herrmann, taken it way to sssssllllloooowwww😡😠 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Datameister 2,041 Posted August 22, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted August 22, 2020 I'm not sure why I never participated in this thread in '17, but I'll pop in now to give some love to Home Alone's "Setting the Trap" and the brass variations on the Force theme as the Rebels approach the Death Star in ANH. Will, BrotherSound and crlbrg 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,346 Posted August 26, 2020 Share Posted August 26, 2020 On 8/21/2020 at 5:44 PM, Bellosh said: 10:06 of 'Indy's Very First Adventure'. Indy's theme plays over the playful young indy motif. The fact that it plays the Indy theme when we see the dog, Indy, is just another level of genius by JW. Yes yes YES, this moment is absolutely amazing, and I always suspected him doing it here over the shot of the dog was a tongue in cheek reference to the later revelation I can't believe this counterpoint example of the Rebel Fanfare playing over Lando's Palace theme hasn't been mentioned Fabulin and Falstaft 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabulin 3,511 Posted April 23, 2021 Share Posted April 23, 2021 The piano version highlights the awesomeness of the counterpoint in this track much better imho 3:07 0:50 Romão 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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