crocodile 8,012 Posted November 10, 2017 Share Posted November 10, 2017 2 hours ago, Jay said: OK! I just finished the main score presentation. Well, its not that good, is it? It's not terrible, though, its just kind of... there. It IS kind of neat hearing a score with the classic Batman and Superman themes weaving in and out. OK, playing the three long bonus tracks now! Yeah, that's pretty much what I think. There's nothing really wrong with it. It sort of acknowledges the sound of DC films that came before and brings it into the Elfman sound world. Or the other way around. There are a lot of ideas buried within this dense noise so I bet there might be new things to discover with subsequent listens. I don't mind more low key references to big old themes, it would have been a bad idea for them to dominate. The problem is that this score doesn't seem to have a strong core idea (or even collection of ideas) to convincingly drive the musical narrative on album. What, I think, would be much needed in a film and score like this is clarity. Silvestri knew it when he tackled Avengers. It doesn't help that Age of Ultron had a very strong theme. What I also find bit frustrating is that the main JL theme seems to bit similar to his Batman theme and it's sometimes hard to tell which one he's quoting at any particular time. Karol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,363 Posted November 10, 2017 Share Posted November 10, 2017 Yea, I think I might come to like it more on subsequent listens, too. I came to like his Ultron tracks more and more as I listened to them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheUlyssesian 2,478 Posted November 10, 2017 Share Posted November 10, 2017 3 hours ago, crocodile said: Yeah, that's pretty much what I think. There's nothing really wrong with it. It sort of acknowledges the sound of DC films that came before and brings it into the Elfman sound world. Or the other way around. There are a lot of ideas buried within this dense noise so I bet there might be new things to discover with subsequent listens. I don't mind more low key references to big old themes, it would have been a bad idea for them to dominate. The problem is that this score doesn't seem to have a strong core idea (or even collection of ideas) to convincingly drive the musical narrative on album. What, I think, would be much needed in a film and score like this is clarity. Silvestri knew it when he tackled Avengers. It doesn't help that Age of Ultron had a very strong theme. What I also find bit frustrating is that the main JL theme seems to bit similar to his Batman theme and it's sometimes hard to tell which one he's quoting at any particular time. Karol Elfman's Avengers theme is a doozy. Insta memorable. Sure it's simple but it's good and I daresay underrated. I think that helped that score. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Zimmer 211 Posted November 10, 2017 Share Posted November 10, 2017 He took the Avengers theme and somehow made it even worse. Which tbf is quite an accomplishment. Just stick to 50 shades of whatever Danny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Jay 37,363 Posted November 10, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted November 10, 2017 Can you try to mix in some positive posts in with all your negative ones? cameron.osborn, Matt C, Cerebral Cortex and 5 others 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,307 Posted November 10, 2017 Share Posted November 10, 2017 Elfman's Avengers theme > Silvestri's Avengers theme James and TheUlyssesian 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Zimmer 211 Posted November 10, 2017 Share Posted November 10, 2017 1 minute ago, Jay said: Can you try to mix in some positive posts in with all your negative ones? Hmm. I really dig the Home track, like a lot. Great one in an otherwise garbage OST. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted November 10, 2017 Share Posted November 10, 2017 1 minute ago, Jay said: Can you try to mix in some positive posts in with all your negative ones? He's right, though. This score is the most disappointing piece of crap since Independence Day: Resurgence. Unlucky Bastard 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fargo 297 Posted November 10, 2017 Share Posted November 10, 2017 41 minutes ago, The Doctor said: This score is the most disappointing piece of crap since Independence Day: Resurgence. But... but... ID4 Reprise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted November 10, 2017 Share Posted November 10, 2017 2 hours ago, The Doctor said: This score is the most disappointing piece of crap since Independence Day: Resurgence. QFT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fancyarcher 350 Posted November 11, 2017 Share Posted November 11, 2017 Just listened to. I quite enjoyed it, my only issue is that unlike his AOU work, there's not a super strong theme to play off. His Flash and Cyborg material is engaging though. I do feel like there's a lot of "bowing" to modern scoring trends, but it didn't bother me that much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted November 11, 2017 Share Posted November 11, 2017 Joined the dark side Elfman has. Mmm. Lies. Deceit. Creating shitty scores are his ways now. Manakin Skywalker and Unlucky Bastard 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manakin Skywalker 4,892 Posted November 11, 2017 Share Posted November 11, 2017 7 hours ago, Lord Zimmer said: Just stick to 50 shades of whatever Danny. He scored those films? What the fu*k happened to him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John 2,032 Posted November 11, 2017 Share Posted November 11, 2017 1 minute ago, Manakin Skywalker said: He scored those films? What the fu*k happened to him? He has fallen into darkness. No pun intended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheUlyssesian 2,478 Posted November 11, 2017 Share Posted November 11, 2017 50 minutes ago, Manakin Skywalker said: He scored those films? What the fu*k happened to him? Those are actually nice scores. Low key modern scores. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted November 11, 2017 Share Posted November 11, 2017 Faaark that 50 Shades chick is sexy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Nick Parker 3,040 Posted November 11, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted November 11, 2017 While I can't speak for the score specifically since I haven't listened to much, I find it interesting that so many take what a man's worked on for weeks or more, and write it off--be it one way or another--in a day or so, a single listen. I know it's a common criticism of criticism, but I've become more and more aware of it in the recent years. I remember severely disliking Hellboy II when I first listened to it, but as I kept coming back and hearing more and more of the intricacies that Elfman composed, I came to enjoy it much more, and now consider it something of a favorite. James, Dixon Hill and Arpy 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koray Savas 2,251 Posted November 11, 2017 Share Posted November 11, 2017 22 hours ago, toothless said: Shhh, you’ll shatter their delusions that composers do everything by themselves! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trent B 337 Posted November 11, 2017 Share Posted November 11, 2017 I heard the album tonight and I for one really enjoyed what I heard. I got excited when I heard Elfman's Batman reprisal as well as Williams Superman theme reprisal. This score is way loads better than Batman vs Superman. It is cool too that Elfman threw in Wonder Woman's (Rupert Gregson-Williams) theme. greenturnedblue and Jay 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post igger6 894 Posted November 11, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted November 11, 2017 Wow. A brief moment, please, to absorb the fact that in 2017, amidst what often seems the twilight of the classic orchestral film score, we just got a track ("The Final Battle") that incorporates both the full-throated rattle of Elfman's Batman theme and a triumphant (albeit brief) burst of Williams' Superman theme in the same three-minute stretch of music, for a scene in which Batman and Superman are presumably joining forces in battle. Whatever else the score may or may not be, whatever else the DC films may or may not have been, this is the stuff of my ten-year-old dreams, and it's streaming now. Thank you, Danny Elfman. It's also worth noting that the most triumphant three seconds of the entire score is a trio of notes written by John Williams thirty-eight years ago, but let's keep it positive for now. toothless, Will, greenturnedblue and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 8,012 Posted November 11, 2017 Share Posted November 11, 2017 3 hours ago, Koray Savas said: Shhh, you’ll shatter their delusions that composers do everything by themselves! The additional composers are usually credited on Elfman albums. Karol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mstrox 6,651 Posted November 11, 2017 Share Posted November 11, 2017 Is the score for War for POTA better than Dawn of POTA? Hadn’t even bothered picking up War, TBH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 8,012 Posted November 11, 2017 Share Posted November 11, 2017 It's a probably a more interesting one but it doesn't necessarily translate into a better album. It's a less crowd-pleasing blockbuster score, if that makes sense. Karol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt C 454 Posted November 11, 2017 Share Posted November 11, 2017 18 hours ago, Jay said: Can you try to mix in some positive posts in with all your negative ones? Sure. I like it. It's ridiculous how most detractors expected Elfman to recapture the magic of his early work (almost 30 years later). It wasn't going to happen, due to the shifting nature of film scoring and current trends. It's a modern Elfman score that does the job, more or less. 13 hours ago, The Doctor said: Joined the dark side Elfman has. Mmm. Lies. Deceit. Creating shitty scores are his ways now. Take that thumb out of your mouth and act like a grown-up please. John 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 8,012 Posted November 11, 2017 Share Posted November 11, 2017 I dislike it because it's now what I was hoping it to be. Instead of Elfman going full on Elfman, even if that means his modern sound,, we got Elfman doing modern DC. So we sort of ended up with an amalgam of both. It's not really terrible in itself, in all fairness. I enjoyed my second listen much more than the first one, keeping in mind what it is. But I can't say I'm blown away by any of it. It's Valerian all over again. Karol James 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted November 11, 2017 Share Posted November 11, 2017 What's the point of hiring Elfman if he's just going to imitate modern scoring trends? Why did he diss Hans in that interview when he had composed a score imitating Zimmer trademarks? It's treason. Unlucky Bastard 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted November 11, 2017 Share Posted November 11, 2017 1 minute ago, The Doctor said: What's the point of hiring Elfman if he's just going to imitate modern scoring trends? Why did he diss Hans in that interview and then compose a score imitating Zimmer trademarks? It's treason. Exactly. They just hired him because he's that superhero music guy and they thought his name would help sell more albums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 8,012 Posted November 11, 2017 Share Posted November 11, 2017 I don't think he was dissing anybody. Elfman is not the best person to do a PR sweet talk. He speaks his mind and that often results with stuff like that. Karol Matt C 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted November 11, 2017 Share Posted November 11, 2017 I have only myself to blame I suppose. I believed in him. May whatever God he believes in have mercy on his soul. James and Unlucky Bastard 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 8,012 Posted November 11, 2017 Share Posted November 11, 2017 1 minute ago, The Doctor said: I have only myself to blame I suppose. I believed in him. May whatever God he believes in have mercy on his soul. By the way, what did you think of his Alice and Oz scores? These were pretty vintage Elfmans with very strong themes. Karol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Zimmer 211 Posted November 11, 2017 Share Posted November 11, 2017 Now throw all the money in the world at Zimmer WB, for JL2. We need a great JL theme, not whatever this is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 8,012 Posted November 11, 2017 Share Posted November 11, 2017 It would have been nice for someone to write a theme for these films, that much is certain. Karol Lord Zimmer 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted November 11, 2017 Share Posted November 11, 2017 Marketing research proves themes are too old hat for modern, sophisticated audiences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted November 11, 2017 Share Posted November 11, 2017 Unlucky Bastard 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted November 11, 2017 Share Posted November 11, 2017 Maybe Elfman just doesn't understand movie music anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 8,012 Posted November 11, 2017 Share Posted November 11, 2017 2 minutes ago, The Doctor said: I bet he's got one of those in his backyard. karol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted November 11, 2017 Share Posted November 11, 2017 Just a reminder. This guy supposedly composed this: True, the Anton Furst car, the suit, Keaton's mannerisms, the strange blue forest with autumn leaves blowing around that you can't tell if it's a real place or a miniature at points and 80s Kim Basinger are all stunning. But ultimately, it's just a scene of a guy driving some blonde back to his house. Then it call comes together with Elfman's music. Even Pauline Kale loved this shit. This is as definitive as Williams' Superman theme. It's exactly why we listen to this background music from movies. So how does a guy go from composing this, a minute and a half of life-altering music, to shit like Justice League where he doesn't even seem to know how to use his own Batman theme effectively? greenturnedblue 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted November 11, 2017 Share Posted November 11, 2017 He's 64, he might be senile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Zimmer 211 Posted November 11, 2017 Share Posted November 11, 2017 53 minutes ago, crocodile said: It would have been nice for someone to write a theme for these films, that much is certain. Karol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koray Savas 2,251 Posted November 11, 2017 Share Posted November 11, 2017 1 hour ago, Baby Jane Hudson said: Exactly. They just hired him because he's that superhero music guy and they thought his name would help sell more albums. I guarantee you film music album sales are the last thing studios care about when hiring composers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 8,012 Posted November 11, 2017 Share Posted November 11, 2017 7 minutes ago, Lord Zimmer said: I liked large chunks of MOS...on album. Karol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted November 11, 2017 Share Posted November 11, 2017 Joss Whedon wanted him to do it. That's why he scored it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Zimmer 211 Posted November 11, 2017 Share Posted November 11, 2017 Just now, The Doctor said: Joss Whedon wanted him to do it. That's why he scored it. He Batmanned the shit out of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted November 11, 2017 Share Posted November 11, 2017 Yeah, that's another thing. "Batmaning the shit out of it" can be heard in the scene from the 1989 Batman posted above. At no point does it occur in Justice League. ????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,234 Posted November 11, 2017 Share Posted November 11, 2017 1 hour ago, Matt C said: Take that thumb out of your mouth and act like a grown-up please. Who are you again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted November 11, 2017 Share Posted November 11, 2017 He's a person and his name is Matt C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James 119 Posted November 11, 2017 Share Posted November 11, 2017 The Oingo Boingo and all the weird stuff they did was an inspiration to him. His best gothic scores are from the first half of the 90's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted November 11, 2017 Share Posted November 11, 2017 Were they all ghost-composed by Steve Bartek and Shirley Walker? I'm starting to think the only thing he actually did was demo the Batman theme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Parker 3,040 Posted November 11, 2017 Share Posted November 11, 2017 With some exceptions (Batman Returns Forever!), I can't really go back to his older older stuff--we had briefly touched on this in the thread @Blumenkohl made about removing items from our music collection. His heart was definitely in the right place, he was very creative, and music wasn't as relatively feared as current times in the eyes of movie studios, audiences, etc. (please note that I'm not making this some whack-ass orchestra vs. synth or whatever debate). And he was also very very new to composing. I respect him for putting in the tremendous effort and not shying away from being deeply ambitious, but with a lot of his scores from that early era (80s to earliest of the 90s), I get a certain...hollowness from them. Like there's something solid missing, some kind of weight or core that's not there. James 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p0llux 398 Posted November 11, 2017 Share Posted November 11, 2017 I thought this score was gonna be around the same level as his Spidey scores, but it's not even close. Those scores had great themes for the characters and he was able to weave them skillfully in and out of the score. Justice League lacked a lot of those elements. Also, it would be nice to hear a full version of the main theme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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