Danny Elfman's JUSTICE LEAGUE (2017)

[crocodile 8,000]

2 hours ago, Jay said:

OK!  I just finished the main score presentation.  Well, its not that good, is it?  It's not terrible, though, its just kind of... there.  It IS kind of neat hearing a score with the classic Batman and Superman themes weaving in and out.

 

OK, playing the three long bonus tracks now!

Yeah, that's pretty much what I think. There's nothing really wrong with it. It sort of acknowledges the sound of DC films that came before and brings it into the Elfman sound world. Or the other way around. There are a lot of ideas buried within this dense noise so I bet there might be new things to discover with subsequent listens. I don't mind more low key references to big old themes, it would have been a bad idea for them to dominate. The problem is that this score doesn't seem to have a strong core idea (or even collection of ideas) to convincingly drive the musical narrative on album. What, I think, would be much needed in a film and score like this is clarity. Silvestri knew it when he tackled Avengers.

 

It doesn't help that Age of Ultron had a very strong theme.

 

What I also find bit frustrating is that the main JL theme seems to bit similar to his Batman theme and it's sometimes hard to tell which one he's quoting at any particular time.

 

Karol

[Jay 37,346]

Yea, I think I might come to like it more on subsequent listens, too.  I came to like his Ultron tracks more and more as I listened to them

[TheUlyssesian 2,478]

3 hours ago, crocodile said:

Yeah, that's pretty much what I think. There's nothing really wrong with it. It sort of acknowledges the sound of DC films that came before and brings it into the Elfman sound world. Or the other way around. There are a lot of ideas buried within this dense noise so I bet there might be new things to discover with subsequent listens. I don't mind more low key references to big old themes, it would have been a bad idea for them to dominate. The problem is that this score doesn't seem to have a strong core idea (or even collection of ideas) to convincingly drive the musical narrative on album. What, I think, would be much needed in a film and score like this is clarity. Silvestri knew it when he tackled Avengers.

 

It doesn't help that Age of Ultron had a very strong theme.

 

What I also find bit frustrating is that the main JL theme seems to bit similar to his Batman theme and it's sometimes hard to tell which one he's quoting at any particular time.

 

Karol

 

Elfman's Avengers theme is a doozy. Insta memorable. Sure it's simple but it's good and I daresay underrated.

 

I think that helped that score.

[Lord Zimmer 211]

He took the Avengers theme and somehow made it even worse. Which tbf is quite an accomplishment. 

 

Just stick to 50 shades of whatever Danny.

[Jay 37,346]

Can you try to mix in some positive posts in with all your negative ones?

[KK 3,307]

Elfman's Avengers theme > Silvestri's Avengers theme

[Lord Zimmer 211]

1 minute ago, Jay said:

Can you try to mix in some positive posts in with all your negative ones?

 

Hmm.

 

I really dig the Home track, like a lot. Great one in an otherwise garbage OST. 

 

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

1 minute ago, Jay said:

Can you try to mix in some positive posts in with all your negative ones?

 

He's right, though.

 

 

This score is the most disappointing piece of crap since Independence Day: Resurgence.

[Fargo 297]

41 minutes ago, The Doctor said:

This score is the most disappointing piece of crap since Independence Day: Resurgence.

 

But... but... ID4 Reprise

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

2 hours ago, The Doctor said:

This score is the most disappointing piece of crap since Independence Day: Resurgence.

 

QFT

[Fancyarcher 350]

Just listened to. I quite enjoyed it, my only issue is that unlike his AOU work, there's not a super strong theme to play off. His Flash and Cyborg material is engaging though. I do feel like there's a lot of "bowing" to modern scoring trends, but it didn't bother me that much.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

Joined the dark side Elfman has. Mmm. Lies. Deceit. Creating shitty scores are his ways now.

[Manakin Skywalker 4,891]

7 hours ago, Lord Zimmer said:

Just stick to 50 shades of whatever Danny.

He scored those films? What the fu*k happened to him?

 

[John 2,032]

1 minute ago, Manakin Skywalker said:

He scored those films? What the fu*k happened to him?

 

He has fallen into darkness. No pun intended.

[TheUlyssesian 2,478]

50 minutes ago, Manakin Skywalker said:

He scored those films? What the fu*k happened to him?

 

 

Those are actually nice scores.

 

Low key modern scores. 

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Faaark that 50 Shades chick is sexy.

[Nick Parker 3,040]

While I can't speak for the score specifically since I haven't listened to much, I find it interesting that so many take what a man's worked on for weeks or more, and write it off--be it one way or another--in a day or so, a single listen. I know it's a common criticism of criticism, but I've become more and more aware of it in the recent years. 

 

I remember severely disliking Hellboy II when I first listened to it, but as I kept coming back and hearing more and more of the intricacies that Elfman composed, I came to enjoy it much more, and now consider it something of a favorite.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

22 hours ago, toothless said:

 

Shhh, you’ll shatter their delusions that composers do everything by themselves!

[Trent B 337]

I heard the album tonight and I for one really enjoyed what I heard.  I got excited when I heard Elfman's Batman reprisal as well as Williams Superman theme reprisal. This score is way loads better than Batman vs Superman.  It is cool too that Elfman threw in Wonder Woman's (Rupert Gregson-Williams) theme.

[igger6 894]

Wow.  A brief moment, please, to absorb the fact that in 2017, amidst what often seems the twilight of the classic orchestral film score, we just got a track ("The Final Battle") that incorporates both the full-throated rattle of Elfman's Batman theme and a triumphant (albeit brief) burst of Williams' Superman theme in the same three-minute stretch of music, for a scene in which Batman and Superman are presumably joining forces in battle.  Whatever else the score may or may not be, whatever else the DC films may or may not have been, this is the stuff of my ten-year-old dreams, and it's streaming now.  Thank you, Danny Elfman.

 

It's also worth noting that the most triumphant three seconds of the entire score is a trio of notes written by John Williams thirty-eight years ago, but let's keep it positive for now.

[crocodile 8,000]

3 hours ago, Koray Savas said:

Shhh, you’ll shatter their delusions that composers do everything by themselves!

The additional composers are usually credited on Elfman albums.

 

Karol

[mstrox 6,651]

Is the score for War for POTA better than Dawn of POTA?  Hadn’t even bothered picking up War, TBH.

[crocodile 8,000]

It's a probably a more interesting one but it doesn't necessarily translate into a better album. It's a less crowd-pleasing blockbuster score, if that makes sense.

 

Karol

[Matt C 452]

18 hours ago, Jay said:

Can you try to mix in some positive posts in with all your negative ones?

 

Sure. I like it.

 

It's ridiculous how most detractors expected Elfman to recapture the magic of his early work (almost 30 years later). It wasn't going to happen, due to the shifting nature of film scoring and current trends. It's a modern Elfman score that does the job, more or less.

 

13 hours ago, The Doctor said:

Joined the dark side Elfman has. Mmm. Lies. Deceit. Creating shitty scores are his ways now.

 

Take that thumb out of your mouth and act like a grown-up please.

[crocodile 8,000]

I dislike it because it's now what I was hoping it to be. Instead of Elfman going full on Elfman, even if that means his modern sound,, we got Elfman doing modern DC. So we sort of ended up with an amalgam of both. It's not really terrible in itself, in all fairness. I enjoyed my second listen much more than the first one, keeping in mind what it is. But I can't say I'm blown away by any of it. It's Valerian all over again.

 

Karol

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

What's the point of hiring Elfman if he's just going to imitate modern scoring trends? Why did he diss Hans in that interview when he had composed a score imitating Zimmer trademarks? It's treason.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

1 minute ago, The Doctor said:

What's the point of hiring Elfman if he's just going to imitate modern scoring trends? Why did he diss Hans in that interview and then compose a score imitating Zimmer trademarks? It's treason.

 

Exactly. They just hired him because he's that superhero music guy and they thought his name would help sell more albums.

[crocodile 8,000]

I don't think he was dissing anybody. Elfman is not the best person to do a PR sweet talk. He speaks his mind and that often results with stuff like that.

 

Karol

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

I have only myself to blame I suppose. I believed in him. May whatever God he believes in have mercy on his soul.

[crocodile 8,000]

1 minute ago, The Doctor said:

I have only myself to blame I suppose. I believed in him. May whatever God he believes in have mercy on his soul.

By the way, what did you think of his Alice and Oz scores? These were pretty vintage Elfmans with very strong themes.

 

Karol

[Lord Zimmer 211]

Now throw all the money in the world at Zimmer WB, for JL2. We need a great JL theme, not whatever this is.

[crocodile 8,000]

It would have been nice for someone to write a theme for these films, that much is certain.

 

Karol

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Marketing research proves themes are too old hat for modern, sophisticated audiences.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Maybe Elfman just doesn't understand movie music anymore.

[crocodile 8,000]

2 minutes ago, The Doctor said:

I bet he's got one of those in his backyard. 

 

karol

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

Just a reminder. This guy supposedly composed this:
 

 

True, the Anton Furst car, the suit, Keaton's mannerisms, the strange blue forest with autumn leaves blowing around that you can't tell if it's a real place or a miniature at points and 80s Kim Basinger are all stunning. But ultimately, it's just a scene of a guy driving some blonde back to his house. Then it call comes together with Elfman's music. Even Pauline Kale loved this shit. This is as definitive as Williams' Superman theme. It's exactly why we listen to this background music from movies. So how does a guy go from composing this, a minute and a half of life-altering music, to shit like Justice League where he doesn't even seem to know how to use his own Batman theme effectively?

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

He's 64, he might be senile.

[Lord Zimmer 211]

53 minutes ago, crocodile said:

It would have been nice for someone to write a theme for these films, that much is certain.

 

Karol

 

[Koray Savas 2,251]

1 hour ago, Baby Jane Hudson said:

 

Exactly. They just hired him because he's that superhero music guy and they thought his name would help sell more albums.

I guarantee you film music album sales are the last thing studios care about when hiring composers. 

[crocodile 8,000]

7 minutes ago, Lord Zimmer said:

 

I liked large chunks of MOS...on album. 

 

Karol

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

Joss Whedon wanted him to do it. That's why he scored it.

[Lord Zimmer 211]

Just now, The Doctor said:

Joss Whedon wanted him to do it. That's why he scored it.

 

He Batmanned the shit out of it.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

Yeah, that's another thing. "Batmaning the shit out of it" can be heard in the scene from the 1989 Batman posted above. At no point does it occur in Justice League.

 

?????

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

1 hour ago, Matt C said:

 

Take that thumb out of your mouth and act like a grown-up please.

 

Who are you again?

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

He's a person and his name is Matt C.

[James 119]

The Oingo Boingo and all the weird stuff they did was an inspiration to him. His best gothic scores are from the first half of the 90's.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

Were they all ghost-composed by Steve Bartek and Shirley Walker?

 

I'm starting to think the only thing he actually did was demo the Batman theme.

[Nick Parker 3,040]

With some exceptions (Batman Returns Forever!), I can't really go back to his older older stuff--we had briefly touched on this in the thread @Blumenkohl made about removing items from our music collection. His heart was definitely in the right place, he was very creative, and music wasn't as relatively feared as current times in the eyes of movie studios, audiences, etc. (please note that I'm not making this some whack-ass orchestra vs. synth or whatever debate). And he was also very very new to composing. I respect him for putting in the tremendous effort and not shying away from being deeply ambitious, but with a lot of his scores from that early era (80s to earliest of the 90s), I get a certain...hollowness from them. Like there's something solid missing, some kind of weight or core that's not there. 

[p0llux 398]

I thought this score was gonna be around the same level as his Spidey scores, but it's not even close. Those scores had great themes for the characters and he was able to weave them skillfully in and out of the score. Justice League lacked a lot of those elements. Also, it would be nice to hear a full version of the main theme.