Danny Elfman's JUSTICE LEAGUE (2017)

[crocodile 7,977]

Got my CD album today.

 

It's funny that Wonder Woman's theme is actually credited to 5 people. Junkie XL is not one of them.

 

Ha! I was right. Hero's Theme does feature Batman's theme. 

 

And yeah, 3 additional composers (one of them is Geoff Zanelli) are all credited in the booklet. As usual with Elfman's albums.

 

Karol

[Ollie 1,059]

1 hour ago, crocodile said:

Got my CD album today.

 

 

 

Ha! I was right. Hero's Theme does feature Batman's theme. 

 

 

 

Karol

 

 

I heard his theme the first time I listened to it. 

 

I played the score while I was up prepping the turkey yesterday morning. It’s slowly becoming better with each listen.

[James 119]

2 hours ago, crocodile said:

It's funny that Wonder Woman's theme is actually credited to 5 people. Junkie XL is not one of them.

 

Elfman, Zimmer, Toprak, Gregson-Williams and Mazzaro? 

[crocodile 7,977]

12 minutes ago, El Jefe said:

I played the score while I was up prepping the turkey yesterday morning. It’s slowly becoming better with each listen.

I think so too. The subsequent listens reveal more details. I actually start to hear how different motifs and themes are threaded through the musical narrative. It starts to form a whole that wasn't apparent from the outset.

 

1 minute ago, James said:

 

Elfman, Zimmer, Toprak, Gregson-Williams and Mazzaro? 

"Track 6 contains "Is She With You?" from Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice composed by Hans Zimmer, Robert Badami, Melissa Muik, Mark Andrew Wherry and Steve Mazzaro."

 

Karol

 

[James 119]

13 hours ago, crocodile said:

"Track 6 contains "Is She With You?" from Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice composed by Hans Zimmer, Robert Badami, Melissa Muik, Mark Andrew Wherry and Steve Mazzaro."

 

 

Thanks! 

Imdb says that Badami and Muik are music and film editors.

[Holko 9,491]

And wasn't the actual riff thought up by Tina Guo?

[Lord Zimmer 211]

1 hour ago, Holko said:

And wasn't the actual riff thought up by Tina Guo?

 

In an interview with Collider, Zimmer said he came up with a theme for WW but didn't know where to put it and how Junkie XL just took it and put it somewhere he would have never dared. Whatever that means. Steve Mazarro is also co-credited for "Is She with you?" from BvS (http://www.hans-zimmer.com/index.php?rub=disco&id=1432). Zimmer really wasn't feeling BvS seeing the BBC interview, retiring etc. and how the titular fight was actually composed by Junkie alone (he made a whole YouTube special about it discussing that track).

 

I think you are referring to the interview with Tina in which she is talking about having her own take on it or something for the solo Wonder Woman movie.

 

Also, someone edited some of the previous themes in for JL:

 

Spoiler

 

Soooo much better, especially that ending and the fight with Steppenwolf. Damnit Elfman.

[Arpy 4,145]

http://www.instyle.com/reviews-coverage/music/tina-guo-wonder-woman-theme-song

 

A quick google search reveals Guo and Zimmer co-wrote the theme.

Tina Guo:

Quote

For actually writing the original Wonder Woman theme for Batman vs Superman, I went into the studio two or three days in a row and we went through so many different ideas.

 

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Holko 9,491]

One of them writes the As, one writes the Es, another writes the C#-s...

[crocodile 7,977]

OK... Seven people then... 

 

Karol

[Lord Zimmer 211]

8 hours ago, Arpy said:

http://www.instyle.com/reviews-coverage/music/tina-guo-wonder-woman-theme-song

 

A quick google search reveals Guo and Zimmer co-wrote the theme.

Tina Guo:

 

 

yeah that one, I read it as her going in and just playing the various themes they (Zimmer, Mazarro?) came up with. Could be wrong tho. 

[Arpy 4,145]

19 hours ago, BloodBoal said:

To think you need so many people to just write one fucking theme...

Yeah, it's ridiculous but it ended up becoming one of the more memorable themes of the series.

[TheUlyssesian 2,473]

It's not even a theme. So 7 people to essentially create a rhythm?

[Arpy 4,145]

Two people, but yeah, even then it's still a small motif.

[Offline 29]

On 11/24/2017 at 4:09 PM, Lord Zimmer said:

 

In an interview with Collider, Zimmer said he came up with a theme for WW but didn't know where to put it and how Junkie XL just took it and put it somewhere he would have never dared. Whatever that means. Steve Mazarro is also co-credited for "Is She with you?" from BvS (http://www.hans-zimmer.com/index.php?rub=disco&id=1432). Zimmer really wasn't feeling BvS seeing the BBC interview, retiring etc. and how the titular fight was actually composed by Junkie alone (he made a whole YouTube special about it discussing that track).

 

I think you are referring to the interview with Tina in which she is talking about having her own take on it or something for the solo Wonder Woman movie.

 

Also, someone edited some of the previous themes in for JL:

 

  Hide contents

 

Soooo much better, especially that ending and the fight with Steppenwolf. Damnit Elfman.

 

I can agree that the usage of Clark's theme would've been much appreciated. This isn't the same Superman John Williams scored, they've made that abundantly clear. I mean, Zimmer's theme isn't amazing, but I feel that it fits this version of the character.

 

I do, however, completely disagree about Wonder Woman's theme. Elfman's version is way more tolerable than the electric cello version. Never been a fan of that theme, and especially not that version of it.

[crocodile 7,977]

Superman you see in this film is closer to Donner/Reeve incarnation than it is to Snyder's version. But I agree the inclusion of fanfare is unnecessary.

 

Karol

[ocelot 508]

Look, Elfman might be right in saying that in the movies, his is the only real Batman Theme, but he shouldn't ignore what Zimmer and others have written in this Universe. Zimmer did write something for Superman at least and that should have been used. This is it's own particular universe and should be respected as such, regardless of whether me or you like the music or not. Other's seem to love and respond to it and that's what they want in these bunch of movies.

[MedigoScan 324]

 

On 27-11-2017 at 1:15 AM, zeekypttr5678 said:

 

I can agree that the usage of Clark's theme would've been much appreciated. This isn't the same Superman John Williams scored, they've made that abundantly clear. I mean, Zimmer's theme isn't amazing, but I feel that it fits this version of the character.

 

I do, however, completely disagree about Wonder Woman's theme. Elfman's version is way more tolerable than the electric cello version. Never been a fan of that theme, and especially not that version of it.

Give me Electric Cello or death

[TownerFan 4,983]

On 11/27/2017 at 1:33 PM, ocelot said:

Look, Elfman might be right in saying that in the movies, his is the only real Batman Theme, but he shouldn't ignore what Zimmer and others have written in this Universe. Zimmer did write something for Superman at least and that should have been used. This is it's own particular universe and should be respected as such, regardless of whether me or you like the music or not. Other's seem to love and respond to it and that's what they want in these bunch of movies.

 

You're right. Let's be frank, this movie is the current epitome of Hollywood studios' complete mindf**k about tentpoles/franchises and the whole craziness also went into the scoring process. It's likely Elfman used all his contractual power (coupled with Whedon's support) to say to WB brass: "I'll do whatever the f**k I want with my themes or other people's themes because you guys are in panic and don't know jack about film music". At that point, it's like gambling and the people at WB had to accept and say "okay, do whatever you guys think it's best". However, the film is such a mess that even a resuscitated Bernard Herrmann could have saved it.

[Offline 29]

On 12/1/2017 at 3:53 AM, MedigoScan said:

 

Give me Electric Cello or death

Death it is for me. Lol. 

[Arpy 4,145]

Finally caught the film. Undoubtedly a mess of a film and a blurred vision of what they were trying to achieve. The score was almost a non-entity in the film aside from a few moments where the '89 Batman theme struggles to break free. 

 

What I feel this film needed was a stronger thematic identity, and one that could be heard for starters.

 

I think what Elfman did felt like a rush-job, a skeleton of a score that needed more time. It's nice to hear a full-blooded orchestral score, but it doesn't compete with Zimmer of XL's megaphone scores.

[greenturnedblue 372]

My favourite part of the score was at the beginning with the big statement of Wonder Womans theme. I enjoyed the thematic material for the Flash. I thought the JW Superman theme was underused and it wasnt that big of a deal in the film. The Elfman Batman theme was sprinkled throughout but the 'biggest' moments was when Gordon looks at Batman on the roof and the white awning was partially blocking his view, the when Batman breaks through with the car near the end. I could tell there was a big statement of the Batman theme when Batman comes up on his spider-crawler but sadly it was drowned out in SFX. Overall the soundtrack album is a better presentation of the music then the way the movie presents the music

[Arpy 4,145]

When I heard the old themes I wasn't thinking about the Snyder characters though. It was all wrong.

[greenturnedblue 372]

I mean, I didnt have an issue with the retro batman theme, but the JW Supes theme shouldn't really have been used. should've stuck with the Zimmer material

[Mr. Who 919]

I found the whole score jarring, it had no real identity and was just making noise in the background. The lack of thematic writing was a big issue and the superman theme didn't fit at all.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I don't understand why people think the use of JW's superman there is unfitting. This isnt the same Superman as we saw in MoS and BvS. 

[Arpy 4,145]

2 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

I don't understand why people think the use of JW's superman there is unfitting. This isnt the same Superman as we saw in MoS and BvS. 

Get back to thine bridge, troll!

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I'm serious. Superman died in BvS and was reborn here, in a way that's much closer to the one reeve played.

[Arpy 4,145]

Oh, I think he's a little closer to the light-hearted Reeve version, but it's canonically the same Superman from MoS and BvS. Ultimately the inclusion of the Williams theme is like polishing a turd, you can try but in the end you're gonna end up with shit all over your hands.

[Mr. Who 919]

I love the Williams theme but in Justice League it almost became comical and not heroic because of the "darker" superman we had seen in MOS and BVS. It just didn't fit.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

2 hours ago, Arpy said:

but it's canonically the same Superman from MoS and BvS.

 

Who cares about canon? 

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

3 hours ago, Mr. Who said:

I love the Williams theme but in Justice League it almost became comical and not heroic because of the "darker" superman we had seen in MOS and BVS. It just didn't fit.

 

Well it's a comic book movie.

[crocodile 7,977]

44 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

 

Who cares about canon? 

Exactly. The first six ST films had four different themes and they're all wonderful. And Marvel also started out with more RC-styled scores and then Silvestri came onboard and established what is now known as "Marvel sound" (if there is such a thing). So this type of thing has happened before. I think it is way too much drama over nothing.

 

Karol

[Koray Savas 2,251]

On 12/1/2017 at 5:01 AM, TownerFan said:

 

You're right. Let's be frank, this movie is the current epitome of Hollywood studios' complete mindf**k about tentpoles/franchises and the whole craziness also went into the scoring process. It's likely Elfman used all his contractual power (coupled with Whedon's support) to say to WB brass: "I'll do whatever the f**k I want with my themes or other people's themes because you guys are in panic and don't know jack about film music". At that point, it's like gambling and the people at WB had to accept and say "okay, do whatever you guys think it's best". However, the film is such a mess that even a resuscitated Bernard Herrmann could have saved it.

Right, don’t think that’s how film scoring works. As Zimmer said in his forum posts, everything in this score was up to Whedon and Elfman. 

On 12/1/2017 at 5:01 AM, TownerFan said:

 

You're right. Let's be frank, this movie is the current epitome of Hollywood studios' complete mindf**k about tentpoles/franchises and the whole craziness also went into the scoring process. It's likely Elfman used all his contractual power (coupled with Whedon's support) to say to WB brass: "I'll do whatever the f**k I want with my themes or other people's themes because you guys are in panic and don't know jack about film music". At that point, it's like gambling and the people at WB had to accept and say "okay, do whatever you guys think it's best". However, the film is such a mess that even a resuscitated Bernard Herrmann could have saved it.

Right, don’t think that’s how film scoring works. As Zimmer said in his forum posts, everything in this score was up to Whedon and Elfman. 

[Arpy 4,145]

8 hours ago, Stefancos said:

 

Who cares about canon? 

Apparently a great deal of current DC fans who were pissed Zimmer's theme was neglected.

[Caliburn 72]

9 hours ago, Arpy said:

Apparently a great deal of current DC fans who were pissed Zimmer's theme was neglected.

 

There was a hint of Man of Steel in the movie. I could not find it back on the score though.

[Arpy 4,145]

Yes, when they enter the Kryptonian Ship to resurrect Superman.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

That bit is not included on the OST, if I'm not mistaken (which is what I believe Caliburn was trying to say).

 

As someone else suggested, it could have possibly been tracked in that scene instead of a new recording.

[Mr. Who 919]

I'm pretty sure it was just tracked. It was like 20 seconds

[BloodBoal 7,538]

Yep.

[Disco Stu 15,495]

Is that the scene where they put Superman in diarrhea water?  I haven't seen the movie so I really only know anything about it from snarky jokes people make.

[Caliburn 72]

4 hours ago, Arpy said:

Yes, when they enter the Kryptonian Ship

 

Ah thanks! Yes that was it! 

 

So the conclusion is that is not on the score right? I have been in the film music business for more than 10 years now and I have no idea what "tracked' means

 

 

[Jay 37,266]

Tracked music is when a director puts music written for one scene into another scene the composer didn't write it for

 

For example in The Empire Strikes Back when we see the big fleet nearing Hoth, The Imperial March concert arrangement is tracked in instead of the cue Williams wrote (Aboard The Executor)

 

Or in The Force Awakens, the Binary Sunset cue from 1977 is tracked in when Rey gets the lightsaber instead of the music Williams wrote (The Ways of the Force)

[Caliburn 72]

Thanks for the info!

[Matt C 452]

I just got the CD. Some nice photos of the Abbey Road recording sessions in the liner notes, but no comments from Elfman or Whedon about the score. Just technical credits and such.

[mstrox 6,637]

I'm a quarter of the way through this CD (only listening in the car, where I can play it loud and focus on it) and really enjoying it!  You people are nuts!

[Jay 37,266]

You're posting on JWFan while driving? 

[mstrox 6,637]

Nope - I got to work right after the track Wonder Woman Rescue or something like that.  Score album to be continued in 8 hours!

 

I didn't mind the Leonard Cohen cover at the beginning either - at least it did something different with the song.  Was that played in the movie, or just the end credits?

[BloodBoal 7,538]

Played over a montage at the beginning of the film.