Danny Elfman's JUSTICE LEAGUE (2017)

[crocodile 7,984]

2 minutes ago, The Doctor said:

 

If it's supposed to sound like Zimmer and others, what's the point of getting Elfman to do it?

Because Whedon enjoyed working with him on Age of Ultron?

 

10 minutes ago, Arpy said:

I think contemporary art has its place, just as contemporary film music does. 

There are two suites presented on the album, Hero and Anti-Hero themes. If they are (most likely) album arrangements of major themes, they're still underwhelming in that form.

 

I'm not spelling doom or gloom, though, just speculation on two cues...

Just because a track has "theme" in the title doesn't automatically mean it's an album/concert arrangement.

 

Karol

[BloodBoal 7,538]

15 minutes ago, crocodile said:

Guys, you have to also remember Elfman in this film is following in the footsteps of Zimmer and others... and that will have to show in the score. For better or worse, certain stylistic choices have been already established for this universe and he can't just ignore that.

 

On 15/06/2017 at 8:54 AM, BloodBoal said:

People are getting ecstatic over this news, but I'm not convinced DC/Warner are going to let Elfman make a complete U-turn with what was established in their previous films, music-wise. I certainly don't expect something of the level of his Batman scores.

 

I tried to warn them, but they wouldn't listen!

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

It is we who are at fault, having preconceived expectations.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

Elfman said in that interview he was using the same thematic material and it was like he never left. Those two tracks certainly indicate that he did in fact leave, and was likely kidnapped by aliens and replaced with someone else with no musical talent.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

3 minutes ago, The Doctor said:

Elfman said in that interview he was using the same thematic material and it was like he never left. Those two tracks certainly indicate that he did in fact leave, and was likely kidnapped by aliens and replaced with someone else with no musical talent.

 

Let him have a couple of beers and he'll tell you all about it. Crazy stuff.

[Matt C 452]

Zimmer himself says that Elfman doesn't listen to temp tracks when he's hired for a film. (But I think he did for JL.)

 

https://vi-control.net/community/threads/justice-league.65956/page-2#post-4144356

 

https://vi-control.net/community/threads/justice-league.65956/page-2#post-4144012

 

 

[mrbellamy 6,272]

Elfman slightly contradicted that in a Hollywood Reporter roundtable from a few years ago, saying he will generally listen to a temp once but never again.

 

 

[Nick Parker 3,040]

I admire Elfman's ability to trudge through the swamps of a creativity-hostile studio environment and do a little of the beyond to make it more his own. That second clip had a number of mannerisms that sounds like a pretty natural continuation of what he was doing in the '90's (ie Mission: Impossible), like those dissonant brass chords for example.

[Dixon Hill 4,233]

I don't frequent vi-control because I'm not enough of a gearhead, but I love that Hans doesn't hesitate to give some of the more prissy members there what for.

 

Also, a little browsing shows that the lunatic skyy38 is shitting all over the place there as well.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Love reading Hans takedown internet know-it-all’s. He does it on Facebook from time to time, as well. 

[Disco Stu 15,495]

Cool.  It's so easy for people to take ignorant potshots and really they don't want to hear what Hans has to say.  Ignorance is bliss.

[James 119]

He is literally saying that Elfman and Whedon have full responsibility for the score and that producers of the Warner have nothing to say about it. That if the score is generic the fault will be exclusive of the incompetence of the two or of the bad taste of the public...

[antovolk 95]

There's an interview floating around apparently where Elfman says he did NOT use Zimmer/Junkie's Batman theme from BvS.

 

EDIT:

Here we go - Danny Elfman confirming he will NOT be using Zimmer/Junkie's Batman material/theme in #JusticeLeague https://t.co/6LFpg1bf1y pic.twitter.com/VEkHUJhQaF

— Anton Volkov (@antovolk) 31 October 2017

 

[Nick Parker 3,040]

"Hey, uh, Hans, Elliot, Shirley, uh...I, uh, just wanted to say, uhhh, fuck you!!"

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

1 hour ago, antovolk said:

There's an interview floating around apparently where Elfman says he did NOT use Zimmer/Junkie's Batman theme from BvS.

 

EDIT:

Here we go - Danny Elfman confirming he will NOT be using Zimmer/Junkie's Batman material/theme in #JusticeLeague https://t.co/6LFpg1bf1y pic.twitter.com/VEkHUJhQaF

— Anton Volkov (@antovolk) 31 October 2017

 

 

Pretentious or not, he's right about Zimmer and the interview gives me hope. But then I listen to those two tracks...

[Mr. Who 919]

1 hour ago, Nick Parker said:

"Hey, uh, Hans, Elliot, Shirley, uh...I, uh, just wanted to say, uhhh, fuck you!!"

Lol, yeah Hans defends Elfman on vi control while Danny disses his and every other batman composer's work...

[crocodile 7,984]

Danny Elfman not using someone else's Batman theme in his own score.

 

 

Karol

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

After hearing how he handled Williams' Superman theme, I think he should stick to his own themes.

[Mr. Who 919]

Just now, The Doctor said:

After hearing how he handled Williams' Superman theme, I think he should stick to his own themes.

Agreed... I just found the way in which he dismissed all the other batman composers' work was a bit pretentious and a too bold claim.

[SafeUnderHill 205]

[Fancyarcher 350]

In that very same interview he confirmed his Batman theme will indeed be returning. YES!!!

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

They can't post that! Shoot them! Or something!

[Arpy 4,145]

 

1 hour ago, The Doctor said:

They can't post that! Shoot them! Or something!

I want that treaty signed!

 

****

 

Zimmer claims there's no studio involvement, perhaps that's so when he's involved, but for other composers the opposite is true, we know of a handful of composers who have been replaced because the studios thought the music wasn't working, Pan (2015) an example I can recall off the top of my head. 

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Arpy 4,145]

That too. Zimmer in his bubble!

[Richard Penna 3,673]

48 minutes ago, Arpy said:

 

I want that treaty signed!

 

****

 

Zimmer claims there's no studio involvement, perhaps that's so when he's involved, but for other composers the opposite is true, we know of a handful of composers who have been replaced because the studios thought the music wasn't working, Pan (2015) an example I can recall off the top of my head. 

 

Yes I thought about Pan as well when I read Zimmer's comments. If the studios were entirely trusting Wright and Marianalli, why was Powell brought on?

 

It's all well and good Zimmer claiming that when he or Elfman get hired, they don't get told what to write. But they're two of the biggest composers working today and have the luxury of producers wanting their sound at the moment. Not very representative of a typical situation.

[TheUlyssesian 2,473]

16 hours ago, antovolk said:

There's an interview floating around apparently where Elfman says he did NOT use Zimmer/Junkie's Batman theme from BvS.

 

EDIT:

 

 

Lol he basically said that the Zimmer garbage wasn't a theme. He says Hans done some rhythmic stuff but Batman has only ever had one theme.

 

Can't say I disagree.

[Alex 2,833]

Huge fan of sassy Elfman

[mstrox 6,647]

16 hours ago, Nick Parker said:

"Hey, uh, Hans, Elliot, Shirley, uh...I, uh, just wanted to say, uhhh, fuck you!!"

 

I much prefer this choice than "And THIS is Batman's sixth theme of the movie, composed by Nelson Riddle!"

[crumbs 14,304]

Haha, Elfman giving no fucks and calling it as it is. TBH, "rhythmic stuff" is being generous!

[Koray Savas 2,251]

1 hour ago, Richard Penna said:

 

Yes I thought about Pan as well when I read Zimmer's comments. If the studios were entirely trusting Wright and Marianalli, why was Powell brought on?

 

It's all well and good Zimmer claiming that when he or Elfman get hired, they don't get told what to write. But they're two of the biggest composers working today and have the luxury of producers wanting their sound at the moment. Not very representative of a typical situation.

And he wasn’t talking about a typical situation, he was specifically talking about him and Danny working on this franchise. 

[nightscape94 965]

Those comments are about par for the course for Elfman these days.  My opinions about some of Zimmer's music aside (especially in the superhero genre), he's nothing if not generous, courteous and professional when being interviewed about others.  Elfman's holier-than-thou attitude has gotten worse over the years, and it was already pretty bad.

 

Elfman's and Williams' themes belong to a very specific franchise of films representing a very specific incarnation of a character.  Hearing them again now would be interesting, but I fear that using them would be a distraction because they're no longer the established musical identities for those characters.

[James 119]

They are dropping the realistic and serious approach of Nolan and Snyder (successful in 2008, but currently an failure) and embracing the characterization of the animated television series. So it's not a bad idea to bring the theme of '89 or even Williams' back.
Well, and the motif written for Batman in BvS was one of the worst things about the score. Even with the good arrangements of the material for the scenes with sad Bruce Wayne, we are not missing much.

And in the past Zimmer has also ruled out Elfman's theme in an interview when he says it's "too happy" for Nolan's movies.

[Richard Penna 3,673]

3 hours ago, Koray Savas said:

And he wasn’t talking about a typical situation, he was specifically talking about him and Danny working on this franchise. 

 

That doesn't make it any better! It means he's commenting on their stature, and that directors/producers should hire them based on what they know they will get.

 

I'm reminded of Herrmann's interview where he says that composers shouldn't let themselves be pushed around by suits. It's not very helpful advice to newer composers who aren't in as powerful and influential, and don't have the extreme luxury Zimmer has to choose projects.

 

Would you like a cookie from Zimmer every time you leap up to defend him against criticism?

[Dixon Hill 4,233]

Would you like one for every time you bravely call him out?

 

Elfman has always been sardonic, which is fine, but the occasional twattish behavior he displays is incredibly off putting and is really only rivaled by some of Horner's diva moments.  Among colleagues who are highly cordial, respectful, and good natured, it seems a tad unprofessional. Shame. 

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

2 minutes ago, TheGreyPilgrim said:

Would you like one for every time you bravely call him out?

 

Elfman has always been sardonic, which is fine, but the occasional twattish behavior he displays is incredibly off putting and is really only rivaled by some of Horner's diva moments.  Among colleagues who are highly cordial, respectful, and good natured, it seems a tad unprofessional. Shame. 

 

Ironic.

[crocodile 7,984]

Twattish or not, he's sort of right. There isn't any other Batman theme out there, other than the 1960's one, that general public would recognise.

 

Karol

[Dixon Hill 4,233]

Yeah, but I'd never do a public interview and slag off colleagues.  It's just unclassy. 

 

1 minute ago, crocodile said:

Twattish or not, he's sort of right. There isn't any other Batman theme out there, other than the 1960's one, that general public would recognise.

 

Karol

 

I don't know Karol.  To me, Hans' two notes seem quite iconic and known, but it may be different elsewhere. 

[crocodile 7,984]

Just now, TheGreyPilgrim said:

Yeah, but I'd never do a public interview and slag off colleagues.  It's just unclassy. 

I don't think he's slagging anybody off. I even doubt he's ever heard any of those.

 

Karol

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I agree with TGP. 

[crocodile 7,984]

Agree on...what?

 

Karol

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Zimmer's theme being quite well known. It's certainly better than the Elfman, I've always found.

[crocodile 7,984]

...

 

Karol

[Koray Savas 2,251]

1 hour ago, Richard Penna said:

 

That doesn't make it any better! It means he's commenting on their stature, and that directors/producers should hire them based on what they know they will get.

 

I'm reminded of Herrmann's interview where he says that composers shouldn't let themselves be pushed around by suits. It's not very helpful advice to newer composers who aren't in as powerful and influential, and don't have the extreme luxury Zimmer has to choose projects.

 

Would you like a cookie from Zimmer every time you leap up to defend him against criticism?

Did you even read the thread? The dude was saying Danny was following a temp of Hans’ music for Justice League. Hans said Danny doesn’t listen to temps and that WB didn’t force them to do anything specifically on this franchise. So whatever music there came from Whedon and Danny. The conversation is about Justice League and WB, not how to make it as a young composer. 

[gkgyver 1,645]

Elfman confirms why he was my first film score crush.

 

Finally something to look forward to this year.

[Dixon Hill 4,233]

This thread is full of "ignored content" holes.  Must be a good one!

[publicist 4,643]

If what i was just listening to is the result of such bravado i wager Elfman should take it down a notch or even two. Sounds like dire routine.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

The 1966 Batman theme is arguably more well known than the 1989 theme.

[publicist 4,643]

And way cooler.