The temp track or similarities thread

[toothless 439]

With my spotify playlist now composed of more than a thousand pieces of music, I regularly get striked by how temp tracks are obvious. I'll start with one example, feel free to share yours.  

 

 

was temped track with

 

 

[Disco Stu 6752]

Doesn't a thread like this already exist?

[toothless 439]

Well, I made a search with "temp track" and, ot my surprise, nothing came out. But if this does exists, then, my bad 

[BloodBoal 7490]

1 hour ago, toothless said:

 

 

was temped track with

 

 

 

which was temp tracked with

 

 

[crumbs 4555]

3 posts in and I'm already depressed as fuck about the state of modern film music.

 

Cherish every new John Williams score from here on folks, is all I'll say.

[Alex 986]

Was the scene in POA with Aunt Marge temp tracked with Rossini's La gazza ladra or was JW simply trying to emulate that style?

[Stefancos 8156]

Yes

[Loert 1510]

 

 

[Stefancos 8156]

Apparently not!

[ymenard 23]

Henry V / Hook

 

(sorry Spielberg, you should have never temp tracked it)

[Stefancos 8156]

Has that ever been conformed or is it just speculation?

[ymenard 23]

Well, Spielberg did it on Jurassic Park (with the Brachiosorious cue) and Henry V again.   That's why it would more enter into the temp track territory here, it's a lot more harder to say than comparing something like Debussy's La fille aux cheveux de lin and Episode 1.

[Stefancos 8156]

Do we know as a fact Spielberg used those as temp tracks, or are we just assuming? 

 

The Conan/Total Recall one was mentioned as a FACT for probably hundreds of times, and I'm reliably informed that this wasnt actually the case.

 

 

[ymenard 23]

When the only reference is in two back-to-back directed by Spielberg movies, without any other cases of temp tracking in any other movies  (things like Hanson / E.T. and Dvorak / Jaws seems not temp tracking but Johnny being post-modern in his writing), and with the original score only couple of years before, it is questioning that it could enter into temp track territory.  Steven *was* trying to bring his mojo back, and trying new things in the director's chair.

 

 

[Stefancos 8156]

So you are just assuming?:

[publicist 2701]

 

 

[Holko 2311]

There's no way this cue wasn't temped with Khachaturian's Sabre Dance:

 

 

 

[Richard 2739]

PLANET OF THE APES was temped with...nothing, as Franklin J. Schaffner hated any temp music!

 

Toto was asked to look to Shostakovich as inspiration, for DUNE; "low, and slow" was the brief.

 

JW was told to "lean on" THE MISSION, while composing EOTS.

[Thor 1863]

On 18.6.2017 at 6:48 AM, Stefancos said:

So you are just assuming?:

 

That's the problem with these threads. 90% of the time, it's just fans speculating based on some similarity they hear (that may be more or less farfetched/coincidental). Very rarely is there actual confirmation of which tracks were used as temp.

[toothless 439]

 

[Disco Stu 6752]

1 hour ago, Thor said:

 

That's the problem with these threads. 90% of the time, it's just fans speculating based on some similarity they hear (that may be more or less farfetched/coincidental). Very rarely is there actual confirmation of which tracks were used as temp.

 

This is my problem with threads like this as well.  More accurate title would be, "Music that sounds like other music."

[BloodBoal 7490]

or "Music that may or may not have been inspired by other music which may or may not have served as temp track music".

[toothless 439]

I agree with you both. Nonetheless, I think there are differences between music that sounds like another and the blatant rip off we hear from time to time. But yeah the title of this thread is a bit extreme. 

 

 

3 minutes ago, BloodBoal said:

or "Music that may or may not have been inspired by other music which may or may not have served as temp track music".

[Thor 1863]

Just now, toothless said:

I agree with you both. Nonetheless, I think there are differences between music that sounds like another and the blatant ripoff we hear from time to time. 

 

Well, 'blatant ripoff' is still subjective. Only on very few occasions have I bought into the 'blatant ripoff' thing without actual confirmation from the production sources, like -- say -- the Bates/Goldenthal/300 ordeal (I assume this was confirmed later on, in the trials) or Horner/Gayanneh/ALIENS (I don't think this was ever confirmed from inside sources, but it seems obvious).

[Richard Penna 809]

I had a long debate at work about whether temp tracks should be used. I argued that if a director falls in love sufficiently with a particular cue in a scene, and subsequently removes the freedom of the composer to write what they want from the scene, their role is hugely diminished. In those cases I think licensing the temped music is a better choice.

 

Can't find it on YouTube, but Debney's Launching the Attack from 'The Ant Bully' is a clear replication of a cue from JNH's Atlantis (I haven't listened for a while so I'm not sure which cue it is).

[toothless 439]

Yes you're right @Thor. EDIT : But what are the odds that 2 musics perfectly fit a scene of a movie and have similar style ?

 

Found this on twitter : 

https://twitter.com/SoundsLikeTemp

[Disco Stu 6752]

3 minutes ago, Richard Penna said:

Can't find it on YouTube, but Debney's Launching the Attack from 'The Ant Bully' is a clear replication of a cue from JNH's Atlantis (I haven't listened for a while so I'm not sure which cue it is).

 

(starting at 3:28)

[toothless 439]

Hey, I just posted that video 

[Richard Penna 809]

They should just have licensed JNH's cue.

[BloodBoal 7490]

 

 

[Disco Stu 6752]

19 minutes ago, toothless said:

Hey, I just posted that video 

 

I know!  I was watching it when I read his post!

[TownerFan 1814]

On 6/18/2017 at 6:26 AM, Stefancos said:

Do we know as a fact Spielberg used those as temp tracks, or are we just assuming? 

 

Yes, Spielberg always used temp tracks. Even JW himself said it in an interview from 1993 (published on the Soundtrack! magazine)

 

 

[Disco Stu 6752]

There goes peoples precious theory that no filmmaker would dare show Williams an edit with temp music, which I always thought was wishful thinking.

[BloodBoal 7490]

That interview is clearly fake! That's a forgery!

[crumbs 4555]

Well there you go!

 

Makes you wonder if Williams spotted TFA and TLJ with their temp tracks intact. Good question for Rian Johnson on Twitter!

[Will 1529]

8 hours ago, Disco Stu said:

There goes peoples precious theory that no filmmaker would dare show Williams an edit with temp music, which I always thought was wishful thinking.

 

[Stefancos 8156]

Wait? People thought Spielberg doesn't use temptracks?

[Will 1529]

Yes (or at least that he only used them occasionally). 

 

*The above is in regard to showing Williams the film with the temp track. Obviously I always presumed Spielberg used them when editing. 

[Stefancos 8156]

Temp tracks are an important tool in the directors arsenal to make clear to a composer what he's looking for stylistically/rhythmically/thematically etc. Especially considering most directors aren't musically literature.

 

It doesn't mean they paste in a piece of music and tell the composer "give me that!"

[Disco Stu 6752]

My biggest issue with temp tracks is that it's making so many decisions about where music should go and where it shouldn't before the composer ever sees it. 

[Richard Penna 809]

2 hours ago, Stefancos said:

Temp tracks are an important tool in the directors arsenal to make clear to a composer what he's looking for stylistically/rhythmically/thematically etc. Especially considering most directors aren't musically literature.

 

It doesn't mean they paste in a piece of music and tell the composer "give me that!"

 

I agree that they can be a way to communicate to the composer what sort of thing they want, but they've then got to be able to let go of the temp and allow the composer to do their thing. Clearly sometimes that doesn't happen and the composer is given no freedom.

[BloodBoal 7490]

9 hours ago, Will said:

 

Why does that make you sad? Does that suddenly make you enjoy Williams' music less?

[Muad'Dib 1134]

Jurassic Park is plagued with temp-track! Doyle's Henry V, Zimmer's Backdraft, Williams' own JFK, Close Encounters and there's surely more I'm not remembering right now... TLW seems to have some Silvestri's Predator 2 temp-tracked in there, particularly during The Raptors Attack.

 

Thinking that Spielberg, as efficient as he is, would not use temp-track is quite foolish. Remember Jaws was tracked with Images, but that was one of those cases that Williams decided to go against the man as he felt the film had a different tone instead, both the primal side of the shark and the pirate-like nature of the second half of the film. 

[oierem 15]

8 hours ago, Richard Penna said:

 

I agree that they can be a way to communicate to the composer what sort of thing they want, but they've then got to be able to let go of the temp and allow the composer to do their thing. Clearly sometimes that doesn't happen and the composer is given no freedom.

 

But then the same could be said about any other department: should a director let the costume designer, or the production designer do their thing? Should a director allow the actors to play the scene as they like? Clearly there has to be a compromise and a trust, but it's foolish to think that the director should not have control over the work of every department.

Why film music fans think music should be given a "special consideration" by the director is beyond me. Clearly,film composers understand the limits of the medium much better than fans.

[BloodBoal 7490]

3 minutes ago, oierem said:

Why film music fans think music should be given a "special consideration" by the director is beyond me.

 

Because film music is better than everything!

[Thor 1863]

The 90s called; they want this discussion back!

 

Seriously, though, even if the topic is still relevant, it's been discussed so many times now, that I often hear from composers participating in panels I host that they'd rather steer clear of the topic altogether. Which is fine by me, because I've kinda tired of it too.

[Will 1529]

16 hours ago, Muad'Dib said:

Jurassic Park is plagued with temp-track! Doyle's Henry V, Zimmer's Backdraft, Williams' own JFK, Close Encounters and there's surely more I'm not remembering right now... TLW seems to have some Silvestri's Predator 2 temp-tracked in there, particularly during The Raptors Attack.

 

Any specific examples of cues in Jurassic Park where there was temp track? (also, are you just assuming temp track, or has it been confirmed?)

[Hawmy 112]

Hey guys! I think this:

was temped with this:

 

thoughts?

[Will 1529]

I'm not sure if it's ever been confirmed, but, yeah, a lot of people think that. You're not the first. 

[Disco Stu 6752]

Pretty sure he was joking.  It's the most famous example of temp scoring in film history.