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      Donate to JWFan, win a CD!   05/30/17

      Hello!

      We are significantly behind on our funds for keeping JWFan alive, and need to collect donations again.
      As an incentive, I am offering a series of free CDS to anyone who donates over a certain amount!   Donate at least $10 and you will be entered into a pool to potentially win one of the following once we hit our $250 goal:   Tyler Bates - God of War; Ascension (OST, La La Land Records) Danny Elfman - Planet of the Apes (OST, Sony) Danny Elfman - Taking Woodstock (OST, La La Land Records) Christopher Lennertz - Identity Thief (OST, La La Land Records) Christopher Lennertz - Medal of Honor: Rising Sun (OST) Michael Giacchino - Mission: Impossible - Ghost Protocol (OST, Varese Sarabande) Dave Holmes & Various - Ocean's 11 (OST, WB Records) Joel McNeely & Various - Hollywood '94 (Varese Sarabande) Joe Kraemer - Jack Reacher (OST, La La Land Records) John Williams - Born on the Fourth of July (OST, MCA Records)   Donate at least $20 and you will be entered into a pool to potentially win one of the following once we hit our $500 goal:   John Barry - First Love (La La Land) Jerry Goldsmith - The Challenge (La La Land) Jerry Goldsmith - In Harm's Way (2009 Intrada edition) Jerry Goldsmith - The Red Pony (Varese) Alan Silvestri - Dutch (La La Land) Shirley Walker - Willard (La La Land) John Williams - Family Plot (Varese Sarabande) or, any of the above CDs if you prefer   Donate at least $30 and you will be entered into a pool to potentially win one of the following once we hit our $750 goal:   James Horner - Gorky Park (OOP Kritzerland Edition) James Newton Howard - Outbreak (2CD, Varese Deluxe Edition) Laurence Rosenthal - Clash of the Titans (2CD, Intrada) John Williams - The Fury (2CD, La La Land) John Williams - Jane Eyre (OOP, La La Land) or, any of the above CDs if you prefer   Donate at least $50 and you will be entered into a pool to potentially win one of the following once we hit our $1,000 goal:   Jerry Fielding - The Wild Bunch (3CD, FSM) Ira Newborn - The Naked Gun trilogy (3CD, La La Land) Shirley Walker and Various - Batman: The Animated Series Volume 3 (4CD, La La Land) or, any of the above CDs if you prefer     All shipping will be paid by me to anywhere in the world!   I will pull names from a hat for each pool, and you get to pick whatever CD set you want if I pull your name!   To be eligible, leave your JWFan username in the comments area of your donation.  If you want to donate but not be in the running for a free CD, mention that in the comment.   Use this link or the link on the mainpage.       Thank you!   Jason, Ricard, and Andreas.
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Brundlefly

The Flop Three of the Top Three

79 posts in this topic

5 hours ago, Richard said:

Of course it is. ALWAYS is unashamed schmaltz, but it's schmaltz with integrity.

SL has lofty ideals, but it punches far above its weight. It's the listen-to-this-it'll-change-your-life context I abhor. It's dishonest, and that's why I don't like it.

 

Yeah Wojciech Kilar should have scored it.

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I think Always gets bashed more than the Star Wars prequels.

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Always hardly ever gets mentioned

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Williams is not a flop person. At worst, he's boring and WASP-ish. Though i would have to single out 'Stanley & iris' as a really poor score - the underscore sounds as if Williams never learned to write chamber music, a lot of half-finished sketches still waiting for a final draft. But then, 'S&I' is a rather poor and insubstantial movie, so...

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Poor films are no excuse for poor accompanying music. Jerry Goldsmith proved that.

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Goldsmith's richest flop phase was also round that time. And i count more than three.

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1 hour ago, publicist said:

Williams is not a flop person. At worst, he's boring and WASP-ish. Though i would have to single out 'Stanley & iris' as a really poor score - the underscore sounds as if Williams never learned to write chamber music, a lot of half-finished sketches still waiting for a final draft. But then, 'S&I' is a rather poor and insubstantial movie, so...

 

Williams doesn't have a lot of "what the hell was he thinking" films in his filmography. Not after he became big. I would say that Heartbeeps is the only one. Even SpaceCamp is just boring

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7 hours ago, Thor said:

 

Alrighty, then. I'm not going to berate you or anything, but for me, they are obviously all the very best of John Williams.

 

Thank you, Thor, for not biting my head off.

Its easy to dismiss a "bad" score, that's associated with a "bad" film (BFG, THE BOOK THIEF, HEARTBEEPS), but one is going to encounter far more flac, if one sticks one's head above the parapet, and criticises a "great" score, from a "great" film (SCHINDLER'S LIST, JURASSIC PARK). It goes against the grain, against popular opinion, and it's bound to rub people up the wrong way. Many JWfaners like these scores. I don't necessarily dislike them; they just don't do much for me.

At the end of the day, though, its just a parlour-game, one of many played on this site. Long may these games continue.

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I know. That's why I said "bad".

Nothing more complicated than perception...

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6 minutes ago, Richard said:

It goes against the grain, against popular opinion, and it's bound to rub people up the wrong way. Many JWfaners like these scores. I don't necessarily dislike them; they just don't do much for me.

At the end of the day, though, its just a parlour-game, one of many played on this site. Long may these games continue.

 

This is like me when I praise B&B and maybe sometimes compare it to a JWfan beloved franchise and people get upset.

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7 hours ago, Stefancos said:

Always hardly ever gets mentioned

But the score has one gorgeous track, "The Return".

 

4 hours ago, Stefancos said:

The BFG is not a bad film!

Two of Williams' most disappointing scores belong to two very child-friendly, harmless films, "The Book Thief" and "The BFG". The former suffers from this childishness, because its topic needs severity, but the latter is compatible with that attitude.

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I couldn't cope with how boring and square The Book Thief was. I ended up playing a Zimmer score instead.

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26 minutes ago, Brundlefly said:

But the score has one gorgeous track, "The Return".

 

Two of Williams' most disappointing scores belong to two very child-friendly, harmless films, "The Book Thief" and "The BFG". The former suffers from this childishness, because its topic needs severity, but the latter is compatible with that attitude.

 

Seth, THE BOOK THIEF might be child-centric, but I wouldn't say that it's child-friendly.

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Yes, let's.

ALIENS is child-centered, yet the irony was that Carrie Henn could act in it, but, in the UK, could not watch it. Bummer.

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Aliens is not a child-centered movie. 

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On 6/20/2017 at 2:17 AM, Stefancos said:

 

Williams doesn't have a lot of "what the hell was he thinking" films in his filmography. Not after he became big. I would say that Heartbeeps is the only one. Even SpaceCamp is just boring

 

Monsignor would be another "WTF" one, since it was such a huge flop and regarded as a bad film, though it did produce a fine Williams scores, and I'm sure the subject matter and potential interested him. 

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But Monsignor brought him a raspberry nomination. So it must be a bad score.

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Ah yes the same golden raspberries that nominated Goldsmith for King Solomon Mines and Morricone for The Thing, and also gave Barry a win. Clearly they know their film music so well that they retired the worst original score category in 1986. Salute!

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3 hours ago, Stefancos said:

Aliens is not a child-centered movie. 

 

Of course it is, Steef. What else is it about? The theme of salvation runs through Cameron's films, like the word "Brighton" through a stick of rock.

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I find it really disheartening when I see Sleepers being mentioned in a thread of this sort. I really do

Richard and crocodile like this

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1 hour ago, Romão said:

I find it really disheartening when I see Sleepers being mentioned in a thread of this sort. I really do

 

Oh, I agree. Even weirder to see JURASSIC PARK, though -- which is only, like, one of the greatest pieces of music written in the history of all music! (and I mean every word of that). But that's the fascinating thing about the different wiring in our brains. It can yield such diametrically opposite reactions.

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12 hours ago, Brundlefly said:

But Monsignor brought him a raspberry nomination. So it must be a bad score.

 

Williams was obviously ripping off the Godfather theme. I can't listen to the main theme or the goofy "Gloria" church choir. He also lazily re-purposed his "Esplanade Overture" for the film. I doubt the Razzie people knew about that, though. But still. It's one of his weakest scores for one of the most obscure films he's ever scored.

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12 hours ago, publicist said:

Yours are usually uniquely bewildering, though.

 

What? JOHN GOLDFARB, THE BOOK THIEF and POSEIDON ADVENTURE are bewildering choices for 'least favourite'?

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12 hours ago, Thor said:

 

Oh, I agree. Even weirder to see JURASSIC PARK, though -- which is only, like, one of the greatest pieces of music written in the history of all music!

 

Guilty as charged, m'lud! :D

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37 minutes ago, Thor said:

 

What? JOHN GOLDFARB, THE BOOK THIEF and POSEIDON ADVENTURE are bewildering choices for 'least favourite'?

 

Jurassic Park is in no halfway objective raw reality, not even yours, a great piece of music. You are a certifiable maniac!

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4 hours ago, publicist said:

 

Jurassic Park is in no halfway objective raw reality, not even yours, a great piece of music. You are a certifiable maniac!

 

Who said anything about 'objective raw reality'? These are all subjective picks and evaluations. That being said, if judging by a score's position and popularity in the public and among film score fans, some picks are certainly more bewildering than others. Not less valid, but more surprising.

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5 hours ago, Richard said:

You know, it's the courtesy, understanding, open-mindedness, and respect, that I enjoy most about JWfan.

More than in every other forum!

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