Jerry Goldsmith's PAPILLON - NEW Quartet Records Expanded Version

[Brundlefly 2,385]

9 hours ago, Koray Savas said:

The less copies you press, the less money you have to spend on manufacturing and storage. 

...and the less money you earn. And it would easily have been possible to earn more with a popular score like Papillon.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

No one could say that for certain. 

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Goldsmith generally is a strong seller though. I mean they just did a 5th release of Poltergeist 2.

[Brundlefly 2,385]

Yeah, and that was "just" Poltergeist II.

This here is Papillon!

[Display Name 60]

22 hours ago, crocodile said:

Karol

And now?

[Jay 37,340]

Ordered this from Intrada last night.  I've never heard this score, looking forward to hearing it

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

It's an excellent score. You will enjoy it.

[Incanus 5,714]

1 minute ago, Stefancos said:

It's an excellent score. You will enjoy it.

Quite.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Verily.

[crocodile 8,000]

41 minutes ago, Display Name said:

And now?

According to Quartet post on FSM board... fewer than 90.

 

Karol

[Incanus 5,714]

5 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

Verily.

Although I remember in my wild youth disliking the accordion main theme intensely. Several years later when I took another listen, I completely fell in love with the whole score. As with the other Schaffner scores there is no wasted note in this score.

[publicist 4,643]

Loved it. But hated (and still hate) the love theme from 'Sand Pebbles'. Thank god Schaffner made guy movies.

[Brundlefly 2,385]

SOLD OUT on Quartet Records! Fucking shit! There are 8 units left on Soundtrackcorner!

[Wojo 2,453]

I hope my purchase at SAE is still safe. 

[Koray Savas 2,251]

It is. I'm assuming they subtract the copies that they contracted for other retailers when updating their own inventory. 

[Yavar Moradi 2,597]

On ‎6‎/‎22‎/‎2017 at 5:25 PM, Display Name said:

Of course, I want them more than anything else. I was just refering to the remaining notorious scores from the 70s and 80s. Of course there are still a few 80s scores and tons of 90s scores that need to be completed.

 

Not sure what you consider a "notorious score" or a "classic," but here are the Goldsmith scores by decade which I am still most looking forward to, in terms of definitive editions:

 

50s: Black Patch, Face of a Fugitive -- both excellent western scores, completely unreleased, which appear to be lost and would therefore require new recordings; here are complete score breakdowns I did for each, with accompanying YouTube videos which should convince any Goldsmith fan they're worth doing:

http://filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?threadID=119663&forumID=1&archive=0

http://filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?threadID=113490&forumID=1&archive=0

 

60s: Freud -- Varese DE still missing a few bits, needs the Papillon treatment

The General With the Cockeyed Id -- excellent short score only available on a footwarmer; should receive a legit issue/restoration: 

In Harm's Way -- Intrada "unlimited" title just went out of print...hopefully they or someone else found a source for the complete score, at last?

Our Man Flint/In Like Flint -- Varese has perpetuity rights and would have to produce Deluxe Editions for each, the Twilight Time isolated tracks are nice stopgap to have but contain microedits and not every cue recorded

Planet of the Apes -- Varese complete edition had inferior sound to previous Intrada edition; this deserves a modern complete Michael Mattesino facelift

The Chairman -- most urgently needed score of the decade for me, an amazing work which should get a complete re-recording if tapes of the original are confirmed lost

 

70s: Crawlspace -- an overlooked GEM of a score; I did a complete breakdown here with YouTube of the film included: http://filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?threadID=116952&forumID=1&archive=0

The Other -- one of Goldsmith's best scores of the decade, sadly controlled by Varese in perpetuity due to the 1-track suite they released in the 90s; fortunately included in extended form as an isolated score track on Twilight Time Blu-ray but once again, that contained microedits and missed some music that was even in the Varese suite

The Man -- a film about the (fictional, played by James Earl Jones) first black president of the United States, with a sparsely spotted but excellent score, broken down here with full YouTube video: http://www.filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?threadID=113568&archive=0

Pursuit -- excellent "mod" score, apparently lost to time and therefore in need of a new recording unless the tapes are discovered. Complete breakdown: http://filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?threadID=117275&forumID=1&archive=0

Shamus -- similar to Pursuit; I haven't done a breakdown yet

S*P*Y*S -- this one certainly qualifies as "notorious" and to be honest it's so zany I love it in spite of its reputation as one of the composer's worst

A Tree Grows in Brooklyn -- GORGEOUS score, like S*P*Y*S released only in part on Varese Goldsmith box

Ransom -- His first primarily action score, and unfortunately worst sounding LP album. Would probably require a full new recording as the original sessions seem to be lost.

The Reincarnation of Peter Proud -- deserves a good sounding legit release

Damnation Alley -- a third of this fantastically exciting score is unreleased due to missing synth elements. Read a complete breakdown and listen to an excellent YouTube suite culled from the missing cues here: http://filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?threadID=117082&forumID=1&archive=0

MacArthur -- One of Goldsmith's most well-known marches, the complete score has never been released (and the LP may have even been a re-recording)

The Swarm -- LLL is currently working on a definitive two disc edition

 

80s: The Final Conflict -- Surely Varese will get around to a 40th Anniversary complete edition of this in a few more years, since they did The Omen just this past year

The Secret of NIMH -- A complete release is sadly impossible unless a source is uncovered.

Under Fire -- Ditto.

Link -- Despite the existence of the complete score on a footwarmer, a complete legit issue is unlikely until a better source for the unreleased material can be found.

Legend -- See Link.

The Lonely Guy -- A wonderful overlooked gem; not at all limited to just synthy comedy -- lots of exciting music here to be heard. The only remaining Goldsmith score released on LP (three tracks by him) but never CD.

Supergirl -- While released "complete" before, still deserves a definitive Poltergeist/Papillon treatment.

Lionheart -- Deserves a remastered Varese Deluxe Edition on CD, in chronological order with duplicate cue removed.

Leviathan -- Better than its reputation would suggest. DeputyRiley did a complete score breakdown here: http://www.filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?threadID=110196&forumID=1&archive=0

 

90s/2000s: Way too many goodies that Varese controls in perpetuity (Air Force One, Small Soldiers, Medicine Man, Mom and Dad Save the World...), plus

The Russia House -- only 6-7 minutes missing but they would improve the flow of the score by offering some contrast: http://www.runmovies.eu/?p=7846

Mulan -- Now that the Disney Legacy Collection is back maybe we'll see this in the next year.

The Mummy -- Kinda shocked no one's done this yet since it's so popular; maybe a hold-up because of the new Mummy film?

The Last Castle -- This one would really shine better in complete form, with stronger film versions for a couple cues.

 

In any case you can see there are still plenty of Goldsmith goodies (including from the 70s and 80s) which we are still waiting on. And this was not an exhaustive list -- I left off some unreleased film scores I don't like much (ie. Take Her, She's Mine, The Don Is Dead, Do Not Fold, Spindle, or Mutilate...) and TV series I do like (The Waltons, Barnaby Jones...hey we're getting a Vol. 2 of Thriller!)

 

Yavar

[Brundlefly 2,385]

This is a great list! And as I said so many times, the only really annoying thing about it is the fact that too much titles are owned by Varese and it will take a long time, until they're all complete. Hopefully they continue fixing their reuse-fees-suffering albums: Air Force One, Small Soldier, U.S. Marshals and The Haunting.

[Display Name 60]

9 hours ago, Brundlefly said:

SOLD OUT on Quartet Records! Fucking shit! There are 8 units left on Soundtrackcorner!

Nooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm too late!!!!!! 

8 units on Soundtrackcorner?

[Incanus 5,714]

1 hour ago, Display Name said:

Nooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm too late!!!!!! 

8 units on Soundtrackcorner?

Also Screen Archives Entertainment seems to have copies left.

[Brundlefly 2,385]

6 hours ago, Yavar Moradi said:

The Mummy -- Kinda shocked no one's done this yet since it's so popular; maybe a hold-up because of the new Mummy film?

Now that we have that new mummy flick with Tom Cruise, we'll never get to see an expansion of this

[Wojo 2,453]

Yavar, you brought back my greatest contribution. Footwarmer. I like you already. 

[Yavar Moradi 2,597]

Thanks Woj -- I had no idea you coined the term, but I'd seen it bandied about the FSM forum as a euphemism for years now, so congrats on its industry penetration!  It's cuter than saying "unmentionable"...

 

9 hours ago, Brundlefly said:

This is a great list! And as I said so many times, the only really annoying thing about it is the fact that too much titles are owned by Varese and it will take a long time, until they're all complete. Hopefully they continue fixing their reuse-fees-suffering albums: Air Force One, Small Soldier, U.S. Marshals and The Haunting.

 

Thanks, Brundlefly! Yeah, here's the full long list of still-unexpanded-on-CD Goldsmith titles that Varese controls in perpetuity, due to their releases in the 90s (in addition they also would be the only ones who could ever offer Encore reissues of other titles they've put out popular complete editions for, like The 'Burbs):

Our Man Flint (1966) -- so much great stuff only available on Twilight Time iso score

In Like Flint (1967) -- ditto, though I like this sequel score a bit less

The Other (1972) -- ditto; such a shame for such an incredible score

The Final Conflict (1981) -- well, this was expanded but still missing a handful of cues

Love Field (1991) -- missing a key highlight cue and possibly more: http://www.filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?threadID=114459&forumID=1&archive=0
Mom and Dad Save the World (1991) -- missing a lot of fun stuff
Medicine Man (1992) -- want every note! http://www.filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?threadID=109823&forumID=1&archive=0
Mr. Baseball (1992) -- I may be one of the few people who'd buy an expanded edition.
Malice (1993) -- lower priority, not missing much: http://www.filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?threadID=110814&forumID=1&archive=0
Matinee (1993) -- wonderful Dante score, missing a lot
Rudy (1993) -- there's a DVD isolated score track (in compressed sound), but would great to have an official complete CD release
Angie (1994) -- not sure what might be missing; sometime I'll watch the film and investigate
City Hall (1996) -- underrated! missing 12 minutes: http://www.filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?threadID=110759&forumID=1&archive=0
Air Force One (1997) -- despite the complete footwarmer (and even one for Randy Newman's underrated unused score), I'd love an official edition
L.A. Confidential (1997) -- ditto, and a high profile Oscar-nominated part of Goldsmith's filmography
U.S. Marshals (1997) -- over half unreleased: http://www.filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?threadID=109822&forumID=1&archive=0

Fierce Creatures (1997) -- the existing album is the complete score and then some, but perhaps unreleased alternates?
Small Soldiers (1998) -- won a poll I did as most wanted Goldsmith Deluxe Edition: http://filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?pageID=1&forumID=1&threadID=114138&archive=0
The Haunting (1999) -- so much of this underrated score unreleased, would lead to a complete reassessment by people I think: http://www.filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?threadID=110033&forumID=1&archive=0
The 13th Warrior (1999) -- all the unreleased stuff (as revealed by footwarmer) is excellent even if the highlights were on original album
Hollow Man (2000) -- there was a DVD isolated score track with Goldsmith commentary
Along Came a Spider (2001) -- I know some people really love this one and maybe I'd reassess it in complete form
Timeline (2003) -- despite the excellent footwarmer I'd love an official release
Looney Tunes: Back in Action (2003) -- wonderful final score, but existing album flowed terribly with no climax because Debney's contribution omitted

 

Ones that Varese may control in perpetuity, but may not: Raggedy Man (1981), Criminal Law (1988 -- not sure if existing album is the complete score), and Leviathan (1989 -- it was mid-way through this year that Varese started getting perpetuity rights as a rule, not sure if it was before or after they put out this score), and finally if the unused scores for The Public Eye, Babe, or Wall Street were recorded, Varese might control the rights just because they released the final scores by other composers.

 

Ones that Varese controls and have released "complete" but which still deserve new re-done editions:

Planet of the Apes (1968) -- this came out two decades ago and needs the Michael Mattesino treatment now; plus there may be unreleased alternates

The Mephisto Waltz (1971) -- "complete" when released with The Other suite, but actually missing some overlays and could use improved sound

Lionheart (1987) -- deserves a remastered complete & chronological single disc (unless there are unreleased cues or alternates which could push it to a second)

 

Whew...don't think I missed anything!

 

Yavar

[Display Name 60]

11 hours ago, Incanus said:

Also Screen Archives Entertainment seems to have copies left.

Thanks. I ordered it from Soundtrackcorner.

[Jay 37,340]

You're welcome to openly talk about bootlegs on JWFan, you don't have to mince words

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

14 hours ago, Woj said:

Yavar, you brought back my greatest contribution. Footwarmer. I like you already. 

 

Wait? You coined footwarmer? You?

[Wojo 2,453]

 

30 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

 

Wait? You coined footwarmer? You?

 

On 6/22/2010 at 4:18 PM, indy4 said:

I was wondering who coined the term "footwarmer." Wojo, you may become part of film music history. Or at least JWFan history.

 

The search engine only goes back to a post from Richard Penna from 2009. I'm convinced that the term was in use long before that because I returned to active posting a few years before that, say, 2006 or 2007.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

It certainly predates that

[Wojo 2,453]

Well that's how I remember it. 

[Kühni 485]

.

[Jay 37,340]

Wojo coined the term right here:

 

 

http://www.jwfan.com/forums/index.php?/topic/17627-michael-giacchinos-star-trek/&do=findComment&comment=569664

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

On JWfan sure. But he didn't invent the term right?

 

Let's not give him any undue credit!

[publicist 4,643]

Sick'em!

[Wojo 2,453]

1 hour ago, Stefancos said:

On JWfan sure. But he didn't invent the term right?

 

Let's not give him any undue credit!

 

No. Given me what's due. 

 

The burden of proof is on you to find an earlier usage of the term outside JWFan. 

 

Aaaaaaand go. 

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

The burden of proof is with the claimant. Present your evidence and we will judge it fairly.

[Brundlefly 2,385]

I watched the movie again: Schaffner absolutely relied on Goldsmith, when he planned and shot the film. It's like every cue is accompanied by the images and not the other way 'round. In the rare cases we hear Goldsmith's music, loud noises and dialogues cease. The composer had the opporunity to fully display the music's potential.  Another director who gave the music so much space to unfold was Sergio Leone. That method has extincted nowadays.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Not at all. Nolan, Fincher, Malick, etc.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Don't Fincher and Malick mercilessly cut up the score to fit their films?

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Malick doesn't give a toss about the music a film composer provides.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

3 hours ago, Stefancos said:

Don't Fincher and Malick mercilessly cut up the score to fit their films?

The music is still vitally linked to the visual image. 

[Brundlefly 2,385]

3 hours ago, Koray Savas said:

Not at all. Nolan, Fincher, Malick, etc.

 

They never give the music its own space like Leone or Schaffner. The only director that still remotely does it is Spielberg.

 

9 minutes ago, Koray Savas said:

The music is still vitally linked to the visual image. 

 

That's not the same thing. Besides in this case there are numerous directors who do that.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Then I'm not quite sure what you mean. 

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

You don't see the difference in how Leone uses music in his films and how Nolan does it?

 

Wow...

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

7 hours ago, Sally Spectra said:

Malick doesn't give a toss about the music a film composer provides.

 

You can't look at it like Malick asking you to score his movie, but rather Malick commissioning you to write a bunch of music to certain specifications to add to the pool from which he'll draw stuff, filling in gaps that existing material can't cover.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Sounds poncy.

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

Well, I think there are two types of people - those who feel that Malick leads them into their dreams and memories in an almost sacred way, or those who think he's a pretentious professor in a cowboy hat.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

18 minutes ago, TheGreyPilgrim said:

 

You can't look at it like Malick asking you to score his movie, but rather Malick commissioning you to write a bunch of music to certain specifications to add to the pool from which he'll draw stuff, filling in gaps that existing material can't cover.

 

But does Malick let his composers know this during the recruitment process?

[Koray Savas 2,251]

35 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

You don't see the difference in how Leone uses music in his films and how Nolan does it?

 

Wow...

He talks about giving the music space and says Spielberg is the only one who does it. I'm asking him to clarify what that means.

 

Leone built his films around the score. Nolan did the same with Inception and Interstellar, so no, I don't see the difference in how they utilized the music in relation to the image. 

[publicist 4,643]

Actually he spoke about Schaffner, more of a traditional Hollywood craftsman. The difference might be - in Malick's case - that he gives a shit about who composed what and just needle drops what he likes. It's almost the complete opposite of Spielberg. With Nolan it's a bit different.

[Brundlefly 2,385]

7 hours ago, Koray Savas said:

Leone built his films around the score. Nolan did the same with Inception and Interstellar, so no, I don't see the difference in how they utilized the music in relation to the image. 

Maybe Nolan BUILDS HIS FILM AROUND THE SCORE, but he doesn't GIVE THE MUSIC TIME TO UNFOLD and he doesn't SET THE FOCUS ON THE MUSIC ITSELF.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

And Spielberg does?