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antovolk

Hans Zimmer's DUNKIRK

790 posts in this topic

Let's get the thread going for this.

56 minutes ago, crocodile said:

Soundtrack will be out on the 21st of July.

 

dunkirk_sdtk_cover_01_1425px_rgb_300dpi.

 

1. The Mole
2. We Need Our Army Back
3. Shivering Soldier
4. Supermarine
5. The Tide
6. Regimental Brothers
7. Impulse
8. Home
9. The Oil
10. Variation 15 (Dunkirk)
11. End Titles

 

Karol

 

http://www.dga.org/Craft/DGAQ/All-Articles/1703-Summer-2017/WWII-Dunkirk.aspx

Quote

Nolan first worked out "a precise mathematical structure" for the story before writing the script, which he determined had to be driven by fictional characters inspired by, but not slavishly based on, actual eyewitnesses. This structure would later have a profound impact on the creation of the score by one of Nolan's many longtime collaborators, composer Hans Zimmer, which took a year to create since it had to work in exact rhythm to the suspense-driven editing Nolan composed with his regular editor, Lee Smith.

 

 

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Nolan first worked out "a precise mathematical structure" for the story before writing the script, which he determined had to be driven by fictional characters inspired by, but not slavishly based on, actual eyewitnesses

 

Excited for this score, but this is the most self-masturbatory bullshit I have ever heard about what will likely be a well-made but not revolutionary war drama.

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Nolan first worked out "a precise mathematical structure" for the story before writing the script

 

I'm sick to death of Nolan and his celluloid Rubik's Cubes, but if nothing else it should yield an interesting Zimmer score.

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45 minutes ago, crocodile said:

Yeah, seems like the usual Zimmer marketing BS is starting to kick in. It's a really shame because it almost makes you hate the music.

 

Karol

 

Indeed. Some of the most cringe-worthy promo bs in the industry. If I have to hear about Interstellar and that bloody letter one more time...

 

But Nolan, is of course, partially to blame. He always seems interested in these often trivial, exercises during pre-production under the guise of "intellectualism".

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I think it's because he feels he's most creative when constrained in some way, but since he's so financially successful he has to set up these artificial restrictions to push against.

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10 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

Please guys! You'll set TGP off!

 

Meh, by now the hatred is predictable enough to ignore, if still mostly silly.  I take comfort in sharing in the Giacchino hate that most reasonable posters here have.

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12 minutes ago, TheGreyPilgrim said:

 

Meh, by now the hatred is predictable enough to ignore, if still mostly silly.  I take comfort in sharing in the Giacchino hate that most reasonable posters here have.

I know you love Zimmer's music. I like large chunk of his work myself. But don't you find him often to be strangely annoying? That is why I always prefer to listen to people like Goldsmith or Elfman who are always come off as very humble and pragmatic when they talk about their work. Can't ever remember them being so much in love with their own genius.

 

I don't mind Nolan talking about his work as much because he tends to be much more insightful. The tone of his voice makes it sound bit self-entitled, true, but he has interesting things to say. The commentary tracks on his older films are actually gold to aspiring filmmakers and anyone else interested in the behind-the-scenes process.

 

Karol

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I believe I have a good ability to detect when people are talking pretentiously or otherwise out of their ass - there are some repeat offenders on this very forum - and genuinely just never get that vibe from Zimmer or Nolan.  All I can think of is that, especially Hans, has a tendency to repeat certain anecdotes as pointed out above, and after hearing it a few times, it comes across as rehearsed and bullshity.  But I think that's just what happens when you do lots of interviews.  

 

As for him being in love with his own genius, now that I have never remotely felt.  He always comes across as exceptionally self-deprecating and humble.  I don't mind enthusiasm for one's ideas, and think that's distinct from being an arrogant ass.  In Nolan's case, I think he's just kind of a quiet guy and people misread that as aloof or something.

 

In any case, the often rabid whining that goes on about them here and elsewhere is just... unnecessary?  Everyone likes to have targets for their frustrations I guess.  I just think they should be people who are actually doing real harm to film and film music....

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Both Nolan and Hans are insufferable when they talk about their work. Both are borderline hacks to me frankly, their work is extremely mediocre and doesn't remotely match in quality the garbage they spew during promo. But that's most of Hollywood for you. 

 

And this ridiculous posturing is very popular with both of their fan bases. So I guess they are just playing to their base which is fine by me.

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Zimmer is a salesguy, he's not unsympathetic but he talks to an unsophisticated audience, an audience that you can wow with perfumed smokescreens. And since he's german and talked repeatedly about the nuisance of fickle german educational standards and the uncompromising rulebook by which the arts are taught i can absolutely see where he's coming from: finally, in La La Land he was freed of just being a catchy pop guy who noodled on his keyboard but a proper artist who mustn't explain the lack of interest in classical form and musical theory.

 

I am not judging that per se, the medium takes crossover talent like Zimmer better than some mad scale genius incapable of being a team player (essential) but it's clear to me that he knows how to walk the very thin line of being Humble Hans and ennobling himself with lofty fluff that insinuates that a simple ostinato is more than it actually is. And the lack of education in our day and age makes it easy to get away with it: a lot of people actually think Zimmer has Beethoven's abilities. There was a big PR event outside of the O2 arena back in Berlin when he did his concert tour and lo and behold, Zimmer is considered a studied professor who actually writes very heady, complicated stuff. And there were music journalists present, unable to make a distinction between symphonic pop/rock piece (or experimental, what have you) and a Boulez piece. It was truly sickening (not Zimmer's fault, of course, but he knew how to play them).

Sharky, Taikomochi and karelm like this

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Most people respond to music emotionally and couldn't care less how "heady" it is, why should they?  Lack of education in our day and age?  You act like there was some bygone era where everyone who went to school knew all about music theory.  They just used to defer to the cultural gatekeepers (mostly the rich and the academics) like good little peasants.  The democratization of taste and growth of the middle class happened in the age of mass media and self-satisfied farts get sickened by the rabble.  Whatever.  People like what they like.

Will, Sharky, TheUlyssesian and 1 other like this

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If Zimmer hasn't gotten seven random celebrities into a drum circle for this, why am I supposed to care?

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We don't know yet. Maybe he got some armor-heads to play along the orchestra.

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1 hour ago, Disco Stu said:

Most people respond to music emotionally and couldn't care less how "heady" it is, why should they?  Lack of education in our day and age?  You act like there was some bygone era where everyone who went to school knew all about music theory.  They just used to defer to the cultural gatekeepers (mostly the rich and the academics) like good little peasants.  The democratization of taste and growth of the middle class happened in the age of mass media and self-satisfied farts get sickened by the rabble.  Whatever.  People like what they like.

 

I largely agree with this, but I believe pub was getting at something a little more subtle than "the masses don't know what's good for them."  

 

That is, though, typically the angle I see from most people who take issue with Nolan or Zimmer as "hacks."  

 

And it's always amusing to see them decry the Nolan "fanboys" while every one of their own outbursts against them inevitably turn into echo chamber circlejerks - witness the showering of "likes."

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2 minutes ago, publicist said:

Yes. I miss the gatekeepers.

 

I enjoy learning about the technical aspects of music, but I recognize that most people don't and that it's ok.  There are far more important things in this life than having a good sense of aesthetics.

TheUlyssesian and Will like this

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I know I wouldnt enjoy some of Nolans movies as much without the Zimmer factor

(which is why Prestige is his best film!)

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Just now, Disco Stu said:

I enjoy learning about the technical aspects of music, but I recognize that most people don't and that it's ok.  There are far more important things in this life than having a good sense of aesthetics.

 

As usual you implemented something into my post that just wasn't there: i didn't complain about laymen liking Zimmer stuff but that journalists from serious papers writing concert reviews and such seemingly unable to differentiate between a crossover artist from the pop/rock background (he even referred to his band!) and classical composers. You can dislike the distinction between U and E Musik (entertainment and serious, roughly translated) but to be ignorant about it is no badge of honor for a professional writer.

 

It's like writing about food and not knowing what truffles are.

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Are there good music writers who write about film music (with regularity)?  I haven't found any.

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11 minutes ago, Disco Stu said:

 There are far more important things in this life than having a good sense of aesthetics.

 

No there aren't!

 

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We're in agreement now.  The most notable "film music critics" out there are not good writers.

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No but about what's left of classical repertoire performances and new music (Gramophone magazine might be the largest english-speaking one).

 

I stopped reading film music reviews because frankly, they often re just not insightful enough but more like puff pieces the intern has to write on fridays to fill the empty weekend slots.

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Not writers, but it's why I love the relatively new podcasts "Underscore" and "The Art of the Score" so much.  They're actual knowledgeable music people talking about film scores!  Not movie nerds who know how to use a few basic musical terms (which is absolutely me to a T, but I'm not putting myself out there as a critic).

 

8 minutes ago, Disco Stu said:

We're in agreement now.  The most notable "film music critics" out there are not good writers.

 

I should note for diplomacy's sake that this does not include any one who visits this forum :D

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I've been pretty oblivious to this project throughout its production but, having read the articles, I'm rather looking forward to it!

 

22 minutes ago, mstrox said:

If Zimmer hasn't gotten seven random celebrities into a drum circle for this, why am I supposed to care?

 

Didn't you follow the link? He's got Joaquin Phoenix, Whoopie Goldberg, Buzz Aldrin, Sean Spicer, Germaine Greer, Aung San Suu Kyi and the late Christopher Hitchens.

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That is exactly one of the reason I stopped doing this (for now at least). There doesn't seem to be that much more to be said. And I have very little knowledge to try to make a significant mark in this overcrowded niche.

 

Karol

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