BLUMENKOHL 1,068 Posted June 25, 2017 Share Posted June 25, 2017 2 minutes ago, publicist said: Because they aren't done by one person and as far as we know, often ruled by all kinds of interferences that just makes the label impractical and misleading. It's just another stupid label invented for film fans to hang their adoration on this one face when the term 'film director' pretty much sums it up. Publicist and I agree so rarely that when we do, it must be because whoever is arguing against him has lost his damned mind! Comparing a single author novel with 800 crew member films and asking why we can't attribute films to one person. Jesus Christ. Dixon Hill and crumbs 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A24 4,333 Posted June 25, 2017 Share Posted June 25, 2017 3 minutes ago, publicist said: Again, who keeps track of who did what? You decide? Yes? Read Nolan's quote again. He could clearly see that Alien and Blade Runner are from one and the same mind. That this kind of creative control was possible in film was an important realization to Nolan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted June 25, 2017 Share Posted June 25, 2017 He read the credits, no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A24 4,333 Posted June 25, 2017 Share Posted June 25, 2017 He probably didn't need to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted June 25, 2017 Share Posted June 25, 2017 Which is proof that Ridley Scott is an auteur? You completely confuse the (semantic) argument about a term with the realization that a film director imprints a movie he's directing (to wildly differing levels). How is that proof that he's the sole auteur? Dixon Hill 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLUMENKOHL 1,068 Posted June 25, 2017 Share Posted June 25, 2017 Maybe. But he knew who directed both films when he came to his realization. My guess is if you blinded people and put those two films in front of someone they'd not come to the same realization. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted June 25, 2017 Share Posted June 25, 2017 You honestly think you can't independently judge if a film is directed by the same person? Blinding people? What? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted June 25, 2017 Share Posted June 25, 2017 Also Ridley Scott is a prime example that the auteur theory isn't getting you anywhere with the number of plot-driven commercial drivel he turned out over the years. BLUMENKOHL and Dixon Hill 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted June 25, 2017 Share Posted June 25, 2017 Interesting that Blumenthal demands evidence from other people but hasn't ever shown a tendency to back up his claims! It's official. Blumenthal is David Irving. The Holocaust denier! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,234 Posted June 25, 2017 Share Posted June 25, 2017 3 minutes ago, Stefancos said: You honestly think you can't independently judge if a film is directed by the same person? Pub clearly said that this is possible but does not prove any fantasies of auteurism. BLUMENKOHL 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLUMENKOHL 1,068 Posted June 25, 2017 Share Posted June 25, 2017 Exactly. I can tell when Deakins is cinematographer. And I can tell when Ken Adam has been designing sets. I can tell when John Williams is composing. But to then turn around and say this film is clearly the vision of one person...uh...defies logic. Sharkissimo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted June 25, 2017 Share Posted June 25, 2017 Proof that it isn't! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted June 25, 2017 Share Posted June 25, 2017 Also curious that on a forum devoted to a film composer such discussion is even possible. And i'm certain all these directors working with Williams over the years happily refrained from micromanaging him to make sure he can make his own contribution - after all, he's the musician. And even if there is some kind of briefing involved, the heart of the matter is that you hire talented people to serve AND enhance your vision. Paul Verhoeven could prod Jerry into improving 'Basic Instinct' but he never could've written anything approaching it. And i think most filmmakers would agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted June 25, 2017 Share Posted June 25, 2017 But can you prove Mozart wrote The Magic Flute without any input from anyone? He couldnt play every instrument of the orchestra anyway. Did Tolstoy write War and Peace completely and utterly on hos own. using no reference? Taking no advice? I find your utter rejection of the theory rather all-sweeping and flawed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted June 25, 2017 Share Posted June 25, 2017 8 minutes ago, Stefancos said: I find your utter rejection of the theory rather all-sweeping and flawed. And i find your (and Alex') insistence that it has any meaning or importance just assertive bullshit. You certainly have never expressed much interest in academic matters before, but now finally, Stefan has found his guiding light in a french caprice that was chic in the 50's and 60's? Come so on... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted June 25, 2017 Share Posted June 25, 2017 I'm just saying that in some instances it might have validity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A24 4,333 Posted June 25, 2017 Share Posted June 25, 2017 15 minutes ago, publicist said: And i find your (and Alex') insistence that it has any meaning or importance just assertive bullshit. You certainly have never expressed much interest in academic matters before, but now finally, Stefan has found his guiding light in a french caprice that was chic in the 50's and 60's? Come so on... Meaning? To enjoy the hand of Kubrick or Tarantino is all the meaning one really needs. Importance? It's there or not. And you either recognize it or you don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheUlyssesian 2,478 Posted June 25, 2017 Share Posted June 25, 2017 True! As already stated the theory cannot be blanket applied to the entire medium but it is a potent lens through which you can explore the work of some film-makers including many working in Europe today. Think about it, it is not that much different from books written by any artist in a way. It just seeks to see the artist as the author of his works and identify his signature and worldview. Will and Simon McBride 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jwfan2234 59 Posted June 25, 2017 Share Posted June 25, 2017 Dunkirk is looking to be another masterpiece from Christopher Nolan Will 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted June 25, 2017 Share Posted June 25, 2017 Another? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jwfan2234 59 Posted June 25, 2017 Share Posted June 25, 2017 1 minute ago, Stefancos said: Another? Dark Knight, Dark Knight Rises, Interstellar just to name a few Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted June 25, 2017 Share Posted June 25, 2017 I want to be the first one to hear them all! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo 3,709 Posted June 25, 2017 Share Posted June 25, 2017 15 minutes ago, Jwfan2234 said: Dark Knight, Dark Knight Rises, Interstellar just to name a few Dark Knight Rises a masterpiece? It's easily his worst film and doesn't deserve to menstioned among his great films. Dunkirk looks like it's going to be great though. and Spitfires!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted June 25, 2017 Share Posted June 25, 2017 The Dark Knight Rises is the best Batman film Not Mr. Big 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted June 25, 2017 Share Posted June 25, 2017 It's the best Bruce Wayne movie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,234 Posted June 25, 2017 Share Posted June 25, 2017 That's a good way of putting it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted June 25, 2017 Share Posted June 25, 2017 It's epic! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,234 Posted June 25, 2017 Share Posted June 25, 2017 It does fit that description in its purest sense, before the word became overused. The climactic Wall Street fight sits comfortably with some of the most well executed and impressive large scale cinematic battles of the past. It's Nolan putting every other DC and Marvel climax to shame. Only a few buildings and one bridge are destroyed or damaged during it. Plus, I was in it. Not Mr. Big 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted June 25, 2017 Share Posted June 25, 2017 There's substance to it. To the story of Gotham cut off from the rest of the world. It isn't just a final act CGI bust up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jwfan2234 59 Posted June 25, 2017 Share Posted June 25, 2017 Don't forget about Inception! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 8,012 Posted June 26, 2017 Share Posted June 26, 2017 13 hours ago, TheGreyPilgrim said: That's a good way of putting it. I have always found it interesting that those 3 films give Bruce Wayne (and his Batman creation) a very symmetric art. It starts with a man who tries to conquer his fear in order to become a symbol. Then he becomes completely submerged and obsessed to the point he isn't afraid of anything anymore...and is ultimately broken. Emotionally first, then physically. At the end, he needs to rediscover fear to become human again. Karol Cerebral Cortex 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mephariel 451 Posted June 26, 2017 Share Posted June 26, 2017 23 hours ago, karelm said: You are confusing fad with vision. Do not equate innovation with vision. Do you believe Justin Beiber who has 12 billion youtube views, 78 million facebook fans, 1000 million dollar sales for an album to be a visionary or a fad (frankly I think we would all agree these are sad stats but I just looked them up)? Zimmer is not in any way a complete reshaping of musical rhetoric. He is a sharp and savvy producer and that is why composers mimic him. You tell us why he is more than that. I have yet to hear something from him I thought was anything beyond serviceable. Get over it Grey, others are allowed opinions that do not glorify him the way you do. Music is not his strongest point (in my opinion) and I will argue he would agree with me. His strength is in servicing the directors emotional intention and that is a very good strength to have but not the same thing. This post is everything wrong with elitist JW forum fans. You comparing Justin Beiber to Hans Zimmer? James Cameron is a visionary director who has enough music sense to pick James Horner as his go to music composer. James Cameron said point blank that Hans Zimmer, John Williams and James Horner are the three modern masters of film music. When an acclaim song writer or coach claims Beiber is top 3 modern masters in singing, then go head with the comparison. A-list directors like Nolan, Howard, Scott, and Malick all worked with him, in some cases, frequently collaborated with him. Zimmer has been critically acclaimed for over three decades. But no, he is just a fad. To me, if you have yet to hear something from him that you through was beyond serviceable, that is your problem. If The Lion King, Interstellar, Gladiator, and Beyond Rangoon are just serviceable, then you are in the minority. You are hearing something differently than what top level directors, musicians, producers, and millions of fans are hearing. And that is ok. But there is no denying Zimmer's place in history. Objectively, he has a resume of an elite level composer. He basically lead the direction of film music for years. Composers mimic him because he was the one who led the charge. It is like if I say Jerry Goldsmith is a fad. Or Horner. Or Newton Howard. Or Elfman because I dislike their music. 8 hours ago, Jwfan2234 said: Dark Knight, Dark Knight Rises, Interstellar just to name a few You forgot Inception. Sharkissimo and Koray Savas 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karelm 2,913 Posted June 26, 2017 Share Posted June 26, 2017 56 minutes ago, Mephariel said: This post is everything wrong with elitist JW forum fans. You comparing Justin Beiber to Hans Zimmer? James Cameron is a visionary director who has enough music sense to pick James Horner as his go to music composer. James Cameron said point blank that Hans Zimmer, John Williams and James Horner are the three modern masters of film music. When an acclaim song writer or coach claims Beiber is top 3 modern masters in singing, then go head with the comparison. A-list directors like Nolan, Howard, Scott, and Malick all worked with him, in some cases, frequently collaborated with him. Zimmer has been critically acclaimed for over three decades. But no, he is just a fad. To me, if you have yet to hear something from him that you through was beyond serviceable, that is your problem. If The Lion King, Interstellar, Gladiator, and Beyond Rangoon are just serviceable, then you are in the minority. You are hearing something differently than what top level directors, musicians, producers, and millions of fans are hearing. And that is ok. But there is no denying Zimmer's place in history. Objectively, he has a resume of an elite level composer. He basically lead the direction of film music for years. Composers mimic him because he was the one who led the charge. It is like if I say Jerry Goldsmith is a fad. Or Horner. Or Newton Howard. Or Elfman because I dislike their music. You forgot Inception. You might be a little new here kid so I will cut you some slack. Yes, HZ is a perfect example of someone who has rarely done much for me musically and that is my opinion. I will add that after spending 100 bucks on his masterclass, his musical input is worthless and that I expected. I was warned by people I respect about it and got what I expected. His business saviness is absolutely worth 100 bucks and worth hearing. His musical thoughts were not and that was what I expected. Get used to the idea of different opinions kid. Correct, your list of music by HZ is basically serviceable and he would agree. Bullshit that he is mimicked because he led the charge. He is mimicked because the films he happens to score make a lot of money. He is not on par with Herrmann, Goldsmith, Horner, or Elfman. Probably closer to a more successful Brian Tyler. TheUlyssesian 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted June 26, 2017 Share Posted June 26, 2017 Tyler showed promise in the 2000s, but he's degenerated to loud, compressed, interchangeable noise. Zimmer at least has some variety in his work. Something like Angels and Demons sounds nothing like The Simpsons Movie, and Man of Steel sounds nothing like Frost/Nixon. What seems to aggravate traditional film music purists is that his scores aren't as often gratifying listening experiences on their own as those they yearn for from the Silver Age. But all that demonstrates is that he prioritises the film, and any album experience stuff or issues with listenability are secondary. Sharkissimo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mephariel 451 Posted June 26, 2017 Share Posted June 26, 2017 2 hours ago, karelm said: You might be a little new here kid so I will cut you some slack. Yes, HZ is a perfect example of someone who has rarely done much for me musically and that is my opinion. I will add that after spending 100 bucks on his masterclass, his musical input is worthless and that I expected. I was warned by people I respect about it and got what I expected. His business saviness is absolutely worth 100 bucks and worth hearing. His musical thoughts were not and that was what I expected. Get used to the idea of different opinions kid. Correct, your list of music by HZ is basically serviceable and he would agree. Bullshit that he is mimicked because he led the charge. He is mimicked because the films he happens to score make a lot of money. He is not on par with Herrmann, Goldsmith, Horner, or Elfman. Probably closer to a more successful Brian Tyler. You are welcome to your opinion. But don't make dumb comparisons and saying Zimmer is Justin Beiber. You keep making dumb comparisons and I'll keep correcting you on it. It is that simple. If Zimmer is not your cup of tea, fine. And I watched his masterclass class as well. I agree that if you are looking for musical composition, that class offers nothing. It more of a class for people who wants to know the important points and philosophy of the film scoring process. Again, it one thing to have an opinion, it is another thing to make your point by saying something that is absurd. Zimmer is highly respected by many great directors. He critically acclaimed by fans and critics. As to your final point about Zimmer is only mimicked because he score films that make a lot of money...here we go again. Completely false. Do you know where Zimmer ranked among the composers with the highest average box office gross per picture updated as of 2016? Yeah, I actually did some research last year. He wasn't even in the top 10. The top 10 are actually: 1. Michael Giacchino: $154,130,780 2. John Williams: $143,067,928 3. Steven Price: $139,202,394 4. Randy Newman: $124,214,504 5. Trent Reznor: $122,415,225 6. Junkie XL: $119,428,312 7. Alan Menken: $117,154,275 8. Henry Jackman: $116,115,876 9. Steve Jablonsky: $108,959,601 10. John Powell: $104,058,095 11. Hans Zimmer: $95,796,890 Contrary to popular belief, Zimmer isn't head and shoulders above his peers when it comes to scoring high grossing pictures. Again, it is one thing to have an opinion, it is quite another when your opinion is just fact out wrong. Is Zimmer on the same level as Herrmann, Goldsmith, Horner, or Elfman? Technically? No chance. Legacy wise? Yeah. Objectively, he has score just as many films, and have just as many acclaim scores as those composers. In terms of influence on the industry, he is right up there as well. I love Horner but I am not a big fan of Elfman. I never felt truly connected with Elfman. But objectively speaking, Elfman is an all time great. Unlike you, I don't completely dismiss a composer's entire legacy because of my own personal tastes. Koray Savas 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted June 26, 2017 Share Posted June 26, 2017 Zimmer didn't do much in 2016. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mephariel 451 Posted June 26, 2017 Share Posted June 26, 2017 4 minutes ago, Stefancos said: Zimmer didn't do much in 2016. Up to 2016. Not the year 2016. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted June 26, 2017 Share Posted June 26, 2017 Sorry. Just woke up. Can you state the sources of your research. And where your figures come from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,234 Posted June 26, 2017 Share Posted June 26, 2017 Please only post peer reviewed content. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted June 26, 2017 Share Posted June 26, 2017 He obviously took the gross receipts and divided them through the number of scored pictures. Which of course isn't saying much if you have Randy Newman's three Pixar movies against Zimmer's 200 across all genres. A fairer number would be a total of highest-grossing box office receipts which probably would pit Zimmer against Williams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mephariel 451 Posted June 26, 2017 Share Posted June 26, 2017 4 minutes ago, Stefancos said: Sorry. Just woke up. Can you state the sources of your research. And where your figures come from? BoxOfficeMojo.com The list is incomplete in a sense that BoxOfficeMojo.com doesn't have the box office record of every movie from every composer. But the numbers are based on what I could find on the site. If you search a movie, you can click on the composer's name to generate a list. If you are interested, here is the top 60 composers: 1. Michael Giacchino: $154,130,780 2. John Williams: $143,067,928 3. Steven Price: $139,202,394 4. Randy Newman: $124,214,504 5. Trent Reznor: $122,415,225 6. Junkie XL: $119,428,312 7. Alan Menken: $117,154,275 8. Henry Jackman: $116,115,876 9. Steve Jablonsky: $108,959,601 10. John Powell: $104,058,095 11. Hans Zimmer: $95,796,890 12. Danny Elfman: $93,058,898 13. Heitor Pereira: $85,536,231 14. Harry Gregson-Williams: $84,099,190 15. Atticus Ross: $81,631,313 16. David Arnold: $81,540,231 17. Alan Silvestri: $76,094,494 18. Lorne Balfe: $75,357,961 19. Ramin Djawadi: $72,797,387 20. James Newton Howard: $71,862,549 21. Joseph Trapanese: $70,333,617 22. Brian Tyler: $69,281,277 23. Howard Shore: $65,596,626 24. Alexandre Desplat: $63,836,863 25. Marc Streitenfeld: $63,491,211 26. Trevor Rabin: $63,342,267 27. Rupert Gregson-Williams: $63,212,414 28. Mark Mancina: $62,374,680 29. John Debney: $60,335,460 30. James Horner: $58,630,266 31. John Ottman: $58,373,941 32. A.R. Rahman: $55,482,405 33. Christophe Beck: $53,905,912 34. Thomas Newman: $52,561,867 35. Elliot Goldenthal: $48,447,108 36. Patrick Doyle: $47,346,062 37. Theodore Shapiro: $45,483,373 38. Tyler Bates: $45,121,213 39. Marco Beltrami: $44,977,326 40. Jerry Goldsmith: $42,142,497 41. Trevor Morris: $40,663,803 42. Craig Armstrong: $38,824,853 43. Klaus Bedelt: $37,396,636 44. Randy Edelman: $37,351,120 45. Jóhann Jóhannsson: $35,946,926 46. Carter Burwell: $34,362,010 47. Fernando Velázquez: $30,816,563 48. Christopher Young: $28,659,712 49. Geoff Zanelli: $26,262,314 50. Gabriel Yared: $25,522,002 51. Roque Baños: $24,518,362 52. Clint Mansell: $24,311,622 53. Trevor Jones: $23,289,959 54. Mark Isham: $22,206,375 55. Dario Marianelli: $22,166,759 56. Michael Brook: $21,725,803 57. Mychael Danna: $20,173,506 58. Daniel Pemberton: $20,098,795 59. Rachel Portman: $19,393,151 60. Ennio Morricone: $17,253,751 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted June 26, 2017 Share Posted June 26, 2017 That's why I asked. Zimmer at 11 while Steve Price is at 3 seems suspect to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mephariel 451 Posted June 26, 2017 Share Posted June 26, 2017 2 minutes ago, publicist said: He obviously took the gross receipts and divided them through the number of scored pictures. Which of course isn't saying much if you have Randy Newman's three Pixar movies against Zimmer's 200 across all genres. A fairer number would be a total of highest-grossing box office receipts which probably would pit Zimmer against Williams. I have a list of that too: Lifetime Box Office Gross: 1. Hans Zimmer (110): $10,537,657,872 2. John Williams (70): $10,014,754,983 3. James Newton Howard (117): $8,407,918,195 4. Danny Elfman (77): $7,165,535,110 5. Alan Silvestri (89): $6,772,409,957 6. James Horner (106): $6,214,808,171 7. John Powell (52): $5,411,020,926 8. John Debney (84): $5,068,178,666 9. Christophe Beck (83): $4,474,190,659 10. Howard Shore (69): $4,526,167,193 11. Thomas Newman (85): $4,467,758,718 12. Michael Giacchino (27): $4,161,531,054 13. Harry Gregson-Williams (46): $3,868,562,728 14. Jerry Goldsmith (90): $3,792,824,748 15. Brian Tyler (47): $3,256,220,041 16. Randy Newman (25): $3,105,362,607 17. Alexandre Desplat (43): $2,744,985,114 18. Carter Burwell (77): $2,645,874,756 19. Henry Jackman (21): $2,438,433,392 20. Trevor Rabin (37): $2,343,663,864 21. Marco Beltrami (51): $2,293,843,613 22. Mark Isham (103): $2,287,256,574 23. Randy Edelman (61): $2,278,418,317 24. Theodore Shapiro (47): $2,137,718,539 25. Christopher Young (70): $2,006,179,816 26. Steve Jablonsky (18): $1,961,272,826 27. David Arnold: (24): $1,956,965,551 28. John Ottman (30): $1,751,218,242 29. Patrick Doyle (34): $1,609,766,120 30. Heitor Pereira (18): $1,539,652,158 31. Mark Mancina (23): $1,434,617,643 32. Junkie XL (12): $1,433,139,742 33. Alan Menken (12): $1,405,851,296 34. Tyler Bates (25): $1,128,030,320 35. Elliot Goldenthal (23): $1,114,283,479 36. Ramin Djawadi (14): $1,019,163,416 37. Rachel Portman (52): $1,008,443,837 38. Mychael Danna (49): $988,501,805 39. Trevor Jones (39): $908,308,415 40. Klaus Badelt (23): $860,122,620 41. Ennio Morricone (48): $828,180,025 42. Rupert Gregson-Williams (13): $821,761,384 43. Steven Price: (5): $696,011,969 44. Craig Armstrong: (17): $660,022,505 45. Gabriel Yared (25) $638,050,055 46. Lorne Balfe (8): $602,863,690 47. Dario Marianelli (25): $554,168,984 48. Marc Streitenfeld (8): $507,929,684 49. Joseph Trapanese (7): $492,335,317 50. Atticus Ross (6): $489,787,879 51. Clint Mansell (20): $486,232,444 52. A.R. Rahman (7): $388,376,838 53. Trent Reznor (3): $367,245,676 54. Michael Brook (16): $347,612,840 55. Philip Glass (26): $306,833,791 56. Geoff Zanelli (10): $262,623,143 57. Fernando Velázquez (8) 246,532,507 58. Trevor Morris (5): $203,319,013 59. Roque Baños (8) $196,146,896 60. Alberto Iglesias (21): $193,383,236 61. Jóhann Jóhannsson (4) $143,787,704 62. Daniel Pemberton (4): $80,395,178 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted June 26, 2017 Share Posted June 26, 2017 1 minute ago, Mephariel said: The list is incomplete in a sense that BoxOfficeMojo.com doesn't have the box office record of every movie from every composer. But the numbers are based on what I could find on the site. If you search a movie, you can click on the composer's name to generate a list. Ok, but what does that list tell you? It doesnt really tell me anything. Is Junkie XL a more successful and influential film composer than Zimmer? I don't think so. TheUlyssesian and Bilbo 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted June 26, 2017 Share Posted June 26, 2017 This list at least secured Goldsmith one place ahead of Tyler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mephariel 451 Posted June 26, 2017 Share Posted June 26, 2017 Just now, Stefancos said: Ok, but what does that list tell you? It doesnt really tell me anything. Is Junkie XL a more successful and influential film composer than Zimmer? I don't think so. That is actually my point. There is this false notion out there that Zimmer is only copied because he scores the highest grossing movies. But he doesn't. A lot of composers are comparable and some even ahead of him in terms of box office performance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted June 26, 2017 Share Posted June 26, 2017 No, I don't think your list shows that at all. You obviously ignored the fact that Zimmer has been active in film since the 80's, and has scored far far more films then someone like Holkenborg or Price. Just totting up the box office grosses and dividing them doesnt give an accurate number as to the popularity and influence a composer has had. Zimmer is WITHOUT A DOUBT more successful and influential than Beck, Price, Junkie etc. You also ignore that fact that Zimmer's two companies Media Ventures and Remote Control have provided several of the composers you see in your list. Even John Powell who struck out on his own quite fast owes part of his success to Zimmer. I'm sorry, but your numbers really do not hold together in any way. Perhaps you should work for the Trump administration. Bilbo and TheUlyssesian 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted June 26, 2017 Share Posted June 26, 2017 It may be nitpicking, BOMojo isn't nearly as accurate with either older movies (only US box office) or inflation-adjustments. With horrible blockbusters racking up billions in China, of course JunkieXL figures even if he should not. If anything, such lists only prove that good music is a zero factor in today's cinema. As for your second statement, of course Zimmer's success is responsible for being copied. This was so long before Zimmer left the womb in Frankfurt and will be so long after he is gone to ashes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mephariel 451 Posted June 26, 2017 Share Posted June 26, 2017 1 minute ago, Stefancos said: No, I don't think your list shows that at all. You obviously ignored the fact that Zimmer has been active in film since the 80's, and has scored far far more films then someone like Holkenborg or Price. Just totting up the box office grosses and dividing them doesnt give an accurate number as to the popularity and influence a composer has had. Zimmer is WITHOUT A DOUBT more successful and influential than Beck, Price, Junkie etc. You also ignore that fact that Zimmer's two companies Media Ventures and Remote Control have provided several of the composers you see in your list. Even John Powell who struck out on his own quite fast owes part of his success to Zimmer. I'm sorry, but your numbers really do not hold together in any way. Perhaps you should work for the Trump administration. I don't think you understand my point. I never said that Zimmer is not more successful and influential than Beck, Price, Junkie. OF COURSE he is. In fact, my chart is NOT to show whether or not someone is influential, but that box office doesn't necessarily dictate how influential someone is. James Horner is in the middle of the list, but he is far more influential than most composers in the top ten. Junkie XL is near the top, but he is no where near as influential as Morricone. Zimmer IS influential, but it is not simply because his movies made a lot of money. Beck, Prince and Junkie average had higher average per picture than Zimmer. Again, I am not using my chart to say that Zimmer is NOT influenential. Only that there is more to it than "OMG, of course he is influential because he gets the biggest films!" Your argument that my chart doesn't show how someone is or is not influential is CORRECT. And that is exactly my point. Having a high box office helps. Being around for a long time helps. But is not simply "Zimmer has the biggest films (false) so he is the most influential." I would never vote for Trump btw. 9 minutes ago, publicist said: It may be nitpicking, BOMojo isn't nearly as accurate with either older movies (only US box office) or inflation-adjustments. With horrible blockbusters racking up billions in China, of course JunkieXL figures even if he should not. If anything, such lists only prove that good music is a zero factor in today's cinema. As for your second statement, of course Zimmer's success is responsible for being copied. This was so long before Zimmer left the womb in Frankfurt and will be so long after he is gone to ashes. Never said that BOMojo is 100% accurate. But it is most accurate data of box office numbers that I can find. And yes, Zimmer's success helps him to lead the industry I think. But the point is, there are other successful composers out there that perform nearly as well or even better. None of those guys are as influential. Likewise, Horner is in the middle of the list and he is far more influential than some of the guys on top. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted June 26, 2017 Share Posted June 26, 2017 I doubt Horner ever was this influential (explained, of course, by the fact that Horner's house style was very traditional). But i forgot: why IS Zimmer/RCP leading the pack if not by general success? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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