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antovolk

Hans Zimmer's DUNKIRK

790 posts in this topic

2 minutes ago, Glóin the Dark said:

 

Didn't you follow the link? He's got Joaquin Phoenix, Whoopie Goldberg, Buzz Aldrin, Sean Spicer, Germaine Greer, Aung San Suu Kyi and the late Christopher Hitchens.

 

Spicer seemed like an odd choice, but after hearing him on the congas, whoa!

Glóin the Dark likes this

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4 minutes ago, publicist said:

Silence is golden.

I miss talking to composers though. That was always cool. Shame it can be such a pain to organise. Always last minute.

 

Karol

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8 minutes ago, Glóin the Dark said:

Didn't you follow the link? He's got Joaquin Phoenix, Whoopie Goldberg, Buzz Aldrin, Sean Spicer, Germaine Greer, Aung San Suu Kyi and the late Christopher Hitchens.

 

Fine, I'm in!

 

(I would have been in anyway - Zimmer does his most interesting work for Nolan)

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Not at all. I just consider you a man of the world.

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In that case, it was just an offhanded quip I wanted to make since it is a rather colorful name.  I know there's nothing inherently anti-porn in most feminist thinking.

 

------

 

1 hour ago, TheGreyPilgrim said:

And it's always amusing to see them decry the Nolan "fanboys" while every one of their own outbursts against them inevitably turn into echo chamber circlejerks - witness the showering of "likes."

 

6v2fzza.png

 

GNrHv4q.png

 

I mean, for god's sake!

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I can't wait for all the Zimmer interviews leading up to this score. I wonder how many times he'll say he's a terrible composer, and that he did his best but it probably isn't good enough. 

 

I swear Zimmer heard the Williams story about Schindler's List and thought "Holy shit, Johnny sounds so humble. I better tell everyone quickly how damn awful I am every second of the day, so I can be even more humble."

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We got ourselves a Humble Off!!

 

31 minutes ago, TheGreyPilgrim said:

 

I mean, for god's sake!

 

Liked. ;) 

Muldoon likes this

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1 hour ago, publicist said:

 

As usual you implemented something into my post that just wasn't there: i didn't complain about laymen liking Zimmer stuff but that journalists from serious papers writing concert reviews and such seemingly unable to differentiate between a crossover artist from the pop/rock background (he even referred to his band!) and classical composers. You can dislike the distinction between U and E Musik (entertainment and serious, roughly translated) but to be ignorant about it is no badge of honor for a professional writer.

 

It's like writing about food and not knowing what truffles are.

 

All the reviews I find by major critics here are really elitist and somewhat critical or dismissive of any film music, even Williams (unless it's Prokofiev). Must be different where you are. :lol:

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6 minutes ago, Disco Stu said:

We got ourselves a Humble Off!!

 

Oh man, I'd totally SUCK at a Humble-Off.  I'd be just terrible.

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1 minute ago, mstrox said:

 

Oh man, I'd totally SUCK at a Humble-Off.  I'd be just terrible.

 

Oh no, I know you'd be far better at it than I would be.  No no, I'm in awe of your talent. I am nothing compared to the master.

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3 hours ago, publicist said:

I stopped reading film music reviews because frankly, they often re just not insightful enough but more like puff pieces the intern has to write on fridays to fill the empty weekend slots.

 

This.

 

Though I gather there a handful of individuals here who could put together some interesting pieces for a proper film music blog of sorts.

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2 hours ago, Will said:

All the reviews I find by major critics here are really elitist and somewhat critical or dismissive of any film music, even Williams (unless it's Prokofiev). Must be different where you are. :lol:

 

That seems to be a uniquely American phenomenon. An inferiority complex stemming from relatively a young cultural tradition and one that is imported almost wholesale from the Old World. The art music of Mitteleuropa sat at the top of America's so called high culture podium for a very long time, and it was only with the vanguard of Koussevitzky, Stokowski, Copland, Bernstein et al. did America begin to break out of that stranglehold through the promotion of new works by homegrown talent. The awful snobbery towards WIlliams from the musical intellgentsia (used very lightly) is very much a remnant of that cultural stranglehold.

 

3 hours ago, TheGreyPilgrim said:

In that case, it was just an offhanded quip I wanted to make since it is a rather colorful name.  I know there's nothing inherently anti-porn in most feminist thinking.

 

You're not off the mark.

 

 

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3 hours ago, TheGreyPilgrim said:

In that case, it was just an offhanded quip I wanted to make since it is a rather colorful name.  I know there's nothing inherently anti-porn in most feminist thinking.

 

------

 

 

6v2fzza.png

 

GNrHv4q.png

 

I mean, for god's sake!

 

Im actually looking forward to both this film and score. 

 

Both Zimmer and Nolan are insufferable to listen to though, regardless of the quality of what they put out. 

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I have little patience for their interviews and promo circuits, but look forward to their collaborations. At this point in his career, his Nolan projects are the only real major Zimmer scores I look forward to.

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3 hours ago, Sharky said:

 

That seems to be a uniquely American phenomenon. An inferiority complex stemming from relatively a young cultural tradition and one that is imported almost wholesale from the Old World. The art music of Mitteleuropa sat at the top of America's so called high culture podium for a very long time, and it was only with the vanguard of Koussevitzky, Stokowski, Copland, Bernstein et al. did America begin to break out of that stranglehold through the promotion of new works by homegrown talent. The awful snobbery towards WIlliams from the musical intellgentsia (used very lightly) is very much a remnant of that cultural stranglehold.

 

Entirely true, and maddening.

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Our artistic elite are not comfortable with people making money from their art. Unlike Mozart, Haydn, and Tchaikovsky, who I hear worked pro bono composing music for the poor, the syphilitic, and the damned. Such was the wondrous life and art of true artists in the old country...

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Definitely the Zimmer score I'm the most interested in since Interstellar. Lets see how this one turns out. Looking forward to listening it. 

 

9 hours ago, TheGreyPilgrim said:

 

Spicer seemed like an odd choice, but after hearing him on the congas, whoa!

 

He dressed up as the Easter bunny during the recording sessions in order to appear "authentic". 

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11 hours ago, Will said:

All the reviews I find by major critics here are really elitist and somewhat critical or dismissive of any film music, even Williams (unless it's Prokofiev). Must be different where you are. :lol:

 

I think it's more that the critics here now often come from light music (if at all) and, because of shrinking budgets and lack of interest on reader's part, review Arctic Monkeys albums as well as a new Haydn cycle, the last one being the subject they learn about on Wikipedia.

10 hours ago, KK said:

Though I gather there a handful of individuals here who could put together some interesting pieces for a proper film music blog of sorts.

 

But what for? 90% of recent scores i would review just as a duty, not because it would be much fun.

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Will this have some gimmicky releases on CD like Interstellar did? Like that 2-CD box that I had to seek out on eBay for like $200?

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While it's interesting to hear about an unusual technical challenge that a composer faced, most just deal with it, produce a score and that's that. It feels like Zimmer particularly shouts from the hills about his current challenge, then makes a big deal of whatever 'revolutionary' technique he's going to use or celebrity he's going to collaborate with. He certainly doesn't have Williams' humility, and the resulting score bears little evidence of such a 'revolution'.

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That's because Williams doesn't create revolutionary techniques. He just uses techniques created by other people, the lazy bugger.

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Zimmer's more of a visionary than Williams, but he lacks his craftsmanship. He's a big picture guy. It's the gestalt that matters most to him, not the finer computational details. Which isn't to say he doesn't obsess over a single synth patch or voicing, but that just serves as a creative inroad--en entry point to explore larger ideas.

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47 minutes ago, Sharky said:

Zimmer's more of a visionary than Williams, but he lacks his craftsmanship. He's a big picture guy. It's the gestalt that matters most to him, not the finer computational details. Which isn't to say he doesn't obsess over a single synth patch or voicing, but that just serves as a creative inroad--en entry point to explore larger ideas.

 

Zimmer is not a visionary.

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Tell us why not. 

 

Call it what you want - being a visionary, being an innovator, or even the dreadfully boring "genius" label.  Along with Tom Newman, this is the guy who remodeled the landscape of film music.  He introduced and legitimized a pop influenced sensibility of melody, harmony, and rhythm, and I guess form as well (plus reinvigorating some very old forms as well).  He set the standard for the inclusion of electronics in an orchestral context (and continues to set this standard), and he spearheaded the application of minimalist ideas to film scoring, with outrageously effective, iconic results.  

 

We're talking about a complete reshaping of the musical rhetoric, structures, and colors used in scores, and also of the underlying philosophies of scoring with regards to thematic approach, the idea of framing a film with atmosphere and tone as opposed to operating as another character or Greek chorus proxy.  And he didn't do this once.  How many times has he sparked a change in the style of film music with a single score?  

 

Whether or not you think that is a good thing, whether or not you think any of this is good, and whether or not you like his music, it seems really difficult to deny his status as an innovative, visionary force.

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You are confusing fad with vision.  Do not equate innovation with vision.  Do you believe Justin Beiber who has 12 billion youtube views, 78 million facebook fans, 1000 million dollar sales for an album to be a visionary or a fad (frankly I think we would all agree these are sad stats but I just looked them up)?  Zimmer is not in any way a complete reshaping of musical rhetoric.  He is a sharp and savvy producer and that is why composers mimic him.  You tell us why he is more than that.

 

I have yet to hear something from him I thought was anything beyond serviceable.  Get over it Grey, others are allowed opinions that do not glorify him the way you do.  Music is not his strongest point (in my opinion) and I will argue he would agree with me.  His strength is in servicing the directors emotional intention and that is a very good strength to have but not the same thing. 

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Come on, there's no need for a "get over it," nor an accusation of "glorifying."  Anyone can think what they like, but you should know by now I'm gonna ask someone to back up what they say if it's interesting enough.

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17 minutes ago, TheGreyPilgrim said:

Come on, there's no need for a "get over it," nor an accusation of "glorifying."  Anyone can think what they like, but you should know by now I'm gonna ask someone to back up what they say if it's interesting enough.

 

Fair enough.

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16 minutes ago, karelm said:

You are confusing fad with vision.  Do not equate innovation with vision.  Do you believe Justin Beiber who has 12 billion youtube views, 78 million facebook fans, 1000 million dollar sales for an album to be a visionary or a fad (frankly I think we would all agree these are sad stats but I just looked them up)?  Zimmer is not in any way a complete reshaping of musical rhetoric.  He is a sharp and savvy producer and that is why composers mimic him.  You tell us why he is more than that.

 

I have yet to hear something from him I thought was anything beyond serviceable.  Get over it Grey, others are allowed opinions that do not glorify him the way you do.  Music is not his strongest point (in my opinion) and I will argue he would agree with me.  His strength is in servicing the directors emotional intention and that is a very good strength to have but not the same thing. 

 

I agree with this. When I think of a Zimmer score, I see it as a production, something produced. There is that whiff of anonymity with comes with all mass produced things.

 

When I think of a Williams score, I see it is as the work of an artist, something written by an individual. It is his and entirely his. 

 

I might be speaking just for myself here, but the allure of even consuming art is that someone put thought into it. THAT is the attractive part which renders art created by others worth studying and taking pleasure in. Something thoughtful is something that will appeal to me atleast, where even though I am not blown off by the quality, I can appreciate the work and thought that went into it. It lends the crucial connection element and the human element to art, specially in terms of music. A work of art is just a paean to the skill and thought process of the artist. We as much revel in the expression of the artist as the work itself. (Think of this as the equivalent of the auteur theory from film criticism applied to music.)

 

With Zimmer I get none of the above. Sometimes his work might be categorized as "innovative" but his work is innovative just for the sake of being innovative. It is entirely thoughtless betraying a barren imagination that is dressing up the absence of any discernible skill with so many bells and whistles. 

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15 minutes ago, TheUlyssesian said:

When I think of a Zimmer score, I see it as a production, something produced.

 

Is that how you see Pet Sounds, Sgt. Pepper or The Man-Machine? An anonymous product, a lifeless commodity?

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Zimmer is the first composer to truly give film music its own unique voice, distinct from quite anything else. His place in the history books is secure.

 

35 minutes ago, TheUlyssesian said:

With Zimmer I get none of the above

 

Classic bullshitology at JWFan. 

 

For all we know Williams divines the cracks in his constipated dumps into notes on the page, and Zimmer uses the blood of his first born child to get his music written. But the black box nature of composers' process sure won't stop us arguing about who put the most amount of effort into their music, and what this speculative effort means for the art!

 

Artsy fartsy people are not right in the head.

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That said, I sincerely hope anyone wishing to become an artist in the future is forced to undergo radical implantation surgery so we get them hooked up with cameras and microphones so we can see exactly how they work and have real data to then debate who is better on the internet. 

 

It's the only way we can know if we can truly enjoy something, by academically dissecting its every aspect and inception until it is a meaningless thing. 

 

But wait, why stop there? We must implant all parents with cameras and microphones so that we can understand their baby-making process. Certainly the quality of sex that led to conception of a to-be composer will impact my enjoyment of the end result. Sex in the back of a car? Not art. Too cheap. Sex in a fancy hotel in Dubai? Too commercial. Not art. Sex in a house? May be the only way to get artists who produce true artistry. 

 

But what about the quality of the bed in the house? I can't enjoy music if I'm picturing the composer having been conceived in a creaky wooden bed...

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