antovolk

Hans Zimmer's DUNKIRK

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14 minutes ago, publicist said:

I doubt Horner ever was this influential (explained, of course, by the fact that Horner's house style was very traditional). 

 

But i forgot: why IS Zimmer/RCP leading the pack if not by general success?

 

General success is a factor for sure. I can't imagine it NOT being a factor. But RCP/Zimmer are the not only composers to have general success. James Newton Howard, Danny Elfman, Giacchino are all up there. And I don't think Elfman is leading the pack. Probably not Giacchino either. 

 

To me, it is probably a combination of factors:

 

1. They make successful movies.

2. Their music is modernized/masculine/pop/rock based which attracts a legion of young people.

3. They are good composers/makes good music. 

4. They make music that is simplistic and accessible, focusing on emotional payoff. The cool factor.

5. They have better promotions of their music.

6. They really push for collaboration with celebrity musicians. 

 

Probably all of the above plus others that I don't know or can't think of. 

 

 

 

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1 minute ago, Mephariel said:

1. They make successful movies.

2. Their music is modernized/masculine/pop/rock based which attracts a legion of young people.

3. They are good composers. 

4. They make music that is simplistic and accessible, focusing on emotional payoff. The cool factor.

5. They have better promotions of their music.

6. They really push for collaboration with celebrity musicians. 

 

Zimmer does all of that, which is why he's the most successful and influential film composer working today.

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And his films have made more money than practically anyone's!

 

Tot up all the earnings from all the films Zimmer did, than count up how much Beck's films made in total.

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Just now, Stefancos said:

And his films have made more money than practically anyone's!

 

Tot up all the earnings from all the films Zimmer did, than count up how much Beck's films made in total.

 

Yeah sure. But statistically speaking, there is no correlation between making more money dollar by dollar and being influential. Alan Silvestri made more total than Junkie XL or Giacchino. But I would argue both are more popular than Silvestri by a huge margin. Newton Howard is third on the list and not that far from Zimmer and he is not influential at all. 

 

I think being hugely successful obviously helps. But statistically, I don't think the number 4 guy is more influential than the number 7, etc. It is not clear cut that way. 

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3 hours ago, karelm said:

You might be a little new here kid so I will cut you some slack.  Yes, HZ is a perfect example of someone who has rarely done much for me musically and that is my opinion.  I will add that after spending 100 bucks on his masterclass, his musical input is worthless and that I expected.  I was warned by people I respect about it and got what I expected.  His business saviness is absolutely worth 100 bucks and worth hearing.   His musical thoughts were not and that was what I expected.

Get used to the idea of different opinions kid.  Correct, your list of music by HZ is basically serviceable and he would agree.  Bullshit that he is mimicked because he led the charge.  He is mimicked because the films he happens to score make a lot of money.  He is not on par with Herrmann, Goldsmith, Horner, or Elfman.  Probably closer to a more successful Brian Tyler. 

 

i think you're a dickhead for posting this. 

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If you are using your list as "statistics" to prove a point then I think you are blatantly and possible deliberately ignoring certain critical factors. Like the length of a composers career. Or the fact that JunkieXL started out as a succesful DJ and therefore was already a known name before entering into film music etc.

 

I don't disagree wuth some of your opinions. But the "facts" as you report them here are seriously shaky.

 

 

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1 minute ago, Stefancos said:

If you are using your list as "statistics" to prove a point then I think you are blatantly and possible deliberately ignoring certain critical factors. Like the length of a composers career. Or the fact that JunkieXL started out as a succesful DJ and therefore was already a known name before entering into film music etc.

 

I don't disagree wuth some of your opinions. But the "facts" as you report them here are seriously shaky.

 

 

 

Actually length of composer's career is the reason I prefer to use box office grossing per picture at first. To me, per picture makes hell of a lot more sense than total box office because like you said, the only reason some of the guys made so much money is because they been around forever. But either way, I think we can agree that Zimmer is probably influential because of a number of factors (some we discussed above), and not just because he always scores the highest box office (per picture wise, Giacchino smokes him here). 

 

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Zimmer's brilliance as a film composer of influence lies in the fact that he created a business that uses his style, which is very appealing and recognisable and easy to understand for a lot of film makers and turned it into a house style. a trade-able commodity that can be used by a variety of composers. Even if you can't afford Zimmer, or he's not available, you can get a score that sounds just like Zimmer. Wonder Woman for instance.

 

Now followers and fans of individual composers of the MV/RCP mold can probably distinguish between individual composers. However the general public cannot. And most of Hollywood can't either.

 

On a business level it really is brilliant. Like Starbucks is undoubtedly a brilliant business concept.

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

Zimmer's brilliance as a film composer of influence lies in the fact that he created a business that uses his style, which is very appealing and recognisable and easy to understand for a lot of film makers and turned it into a house style. a trade-able commodity that can be used by a variety of composers. Even if you can't afford Zimmer, or he's not available, you can get a score that sounds just like Zimmer. Wonder Woman for instance.

 

Now followers and fans of individual composers of the MV/RCP mold can probably distinguish between individual composers. However the general public cannot. And most of Hollywood can't either.

 

On a business level it really is brilliant. Like Starbucks is undoubtedly a brilliant business concept.

 

 

 

Agree on nearly everything you said. Zimmer basically built an empire with his business model. I think Zimmer's understanding why pop/rock songs are successful really helped him. At the end, for 99% of the public, good music simply means music that grabs you. A song has to grab you in some way no matter how good or bad the lyrics are or it won't be popular. If you can have a model that can duplicate that type of simplistic, accessible, powerful music over and over again, you can be really successful. 

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1 hour ago, Mephariel said:

Yeah sure. But statistically speaking, there is no correlation between making more money dollar by dollar and being influential.

 

There kind of is.

 

The Zimmer scores that really participated in spreading the RCP sound were for hugely successful movies (like Gladiator, Pirates Of The Caribbean, Batman Begins...) , not for random movies no one saw. To say there's no correlation between making more money and being influential is, excuse me (or don't, I don't care), a tad dishonest. After all, this is the movie business we're talking about. Of course producers are gonna are more likely to ask their composers to write music like the one heard in the latest box-office hit rather than in a film that bombed.

 

Of course, you can make a lot of money/be successful and not be influential in any way (though even that is debatable), but you're gonna have a hard time be influential if no one heard the music you wrote.

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There will come a generation that will revolt against the Zimmer sound. Why? Kids want to form their own identity and be a part of their own culture. There will come a 'next thing'. We only don't know what that is yet. Who knows, maybe Ariana Grande or Drake will eventually become film composers.

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6 minutes ago, Alexcremers said:

There will come a generation that will revolt against the Zimmer sound. Why? Kids want to form their own identity and be a part of their own culture. There will come a 'next thing'. We only don't know what that is yet. Who knows, maybe Ariana Grande or Drake will eventually become film composers.

 

Ariana Grande has already made a step in that direction!

 

 

 

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7 hours ago, Stefancos said:

Even if you can't afford Zimmer, or he's not available, you can get a score that sounds just like Zimmer. Wonder Woman for instance.

 

Rubbish example. To use a winemaking analogy, Woman Woman is the third pressing of Zimmer's grapes. Acceptable, but far from the real deal.

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7 hours ago, Koray Savas said:

 

i think you're a dickhead for posting this. 

 

Yeah, you are right.  I was.  @Mephariel, I apologize. Was in a mood yesterday.

 

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13 hours ago, karelm said:

 

Yeah, you are right.  I was.  @Mephariel, I apologize. Was in a mood yesterday.

 

 

Don't worry about it. We are all just passionate about our view points. 

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The trailers are excellent and I am ready for this.

 

I'm very intrigued by it. It looks like it just just be a perfectly executed but conventional war movie. Like Nolan will do it simple but nail it. No Inception style head scratching. 

 

Plus Spitfires.

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4 hours ago, Bilbo Skywalker said:

The trailers are excellent and I am ready for this.

 

I'm very intrigued by it. It looks like it just just be a perfectly executed but conventional war movie. Like Nolan will do it simple but nail it. No Inception style head scratching. 

 

Plus Spitfires.

 

Yeah, I am looking forward to this but please dear god no horrific "intentionally" bad sound or horrific "love is the force that transcends time" dialog from a scientist or Matt Damon cameo.  This film does have the potential to be great but I will reserve judgement till I see/hear it.  I guess I seem to prefer my Chris Nolan in more of an indie movie mode. 

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6 hours ago, karelm said:

Yeah, I am looking forward to this but please dear god no horrific "intentionally" bad sound or horrific "love is the force that transcends time" dialog from a scientist or Matt Damon cameo.

 

But a Matt Damon cameo could help connect that film to Saving Private Ryan and thus solidify Nolan's position as the next Spielberg!

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6 hours ago, BloodBoal said:

 

But a Matt Damon cameo could help connect that film to Saving Private Ryan and thus solidify Nolan's position as the next Spielberg!

 

Hey, you're right!  Matt Damon was already in France for the European theater so a cameo would be cool!

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On 6/25/2017 at 8:13 PM, crocodile said:

I have always found it interesting that those 3 films give Bruce Wayne (and his Batman creation) a very symmetric art. It starts with a man who tries to conquer his fear in order to become a symbol. Then he becomes completely submerged and obsessed to the point he isn't afraid of anything anymore...and is ultimately broken. Emotionally first, then physically. At the end, he needs to rediscover fear to become human again.

 

Karol

 

...and all of this is masterfully framed by Hans and JNH.

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On 29/06/2017 at 0:39 AM, crocodile said:

At least Nolan made me care about him in the end. Never happened before.

 

Karol

 

I prefer the Batfleck!

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1 minute ago, MedigoScan said:

Man I need context for this.

I am sure it goes well with whatever scene from the movie.

 

Also antovolk, if you hate ticking, then you'd better buckle up

 

 

I've seen the prologue and watched the trailers and spots on repeat multiple times :D so am adequately ready for that aspect LOL. I'm seeing it in 6 days, not long to wait

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