Hans Zimmer's DUNKIRK

[karelm 2,913]

4 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

I guess the film doesn't preach, but what does it offer as an alternative? 

 

I actually found the actions of what I guess is the films msin character to be highly questionable. He wants to get off that beach and go home, sure. But what makes him special over the 450.000 others who also want to go home, but don't pretend to be medics to sneak on board a ship.

 

Its a form of queue-barging, and if you ry intend to become a British citizen, Karol. You should know its an unforgivable sin.

 

 

 

I found it relatable in how they were deeply afraid, desperate but persevered.  I believe this accounts for maybe 90% of the veterans of WWII and that isn't something we often see portrayed in a war film.  You did not see that with Tom Hanks or Private Ryan.  They had NO fear.  But that had a different story to tell.  

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

You missed the scenes where Tom Hanks was barely holding it together, I guess.

 

Almost all soldiers had fear, many knew how to set it aside to serve their mission, their country.

 

The main character in Dunkirk was a lucky and ingenious coward. At least Branaghs character stayed, at least Rylance's character risked his life 

[crocodile 8,003]

6 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

I guess the film doesn't preach, but what does it offer as an alternative? 

 

I actually found the actions of what I guess is the films msin character to be highly questionable. He wants to get off that beach and go home, sure. But what makes him special over the 450.000 others who also want to go home, but don't pretend to be medics to sneak on board a ship.

 

Its a form of queue-barging, and if you ry intend to become a British citizen, Karol. You should know its an unforgivable sin.

 

Parts of the film actually strike me as deeply, offensively...un-British!

 

From my observations, yes, British keep their cool for a long time. But a lot of it is just a facade. It seems to be expected of them and they are good at that. But when they break...mate, it's just spectacular. Meltdown to end all meltdowns.

 

On the other side of the pond, we Poles don't have spectacular meltdowns. And what is the secret, might you ask? We're always retain a healthy dose of misery.

 

Karol

[Joni Wiljami 1,206]

I listened the score from youtube, what a piece of crap, I have now no desire to see this film. The Elgars Enigma moment was meh, wtf? Ticking😍😚🤓🙂

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

But it was so low-key and un-sentimental!

[Joni Wiljami 1,206]

It was crap!!!!

[karelm 2,913]

27 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

I guess the film doesn't preach, but what does it offer as an alternative? 

 

An example of what courage and sacrifice actually looks like...it is full of fear, random luck, desperation, and perseverance in spite of it.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Not from the main character! Who spent the film trying to run and dodge and get out at the expense of others!

 

Human, possibly...a hero? No fucking way.

[crocodile 8,003]

4 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

Not from the main character! Who spent the film trying to run and dodge and get out at the expense of others!

 

Human, possibly...a hero? No fucking way.

Does he need to be a hero? It was actually very refreshing.

 

Karol

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Why? And what was the point of that on context of the rest of the movie?

 

We see characters played by Rylance, Hardy, Branagh etc etc doing their jobs, or making sacrifices in the name of their country. But the main character is a guy who just wants to get home and is willing to bend to rules to do it!

 

Relatable? Perhaps. Admirable...not in the slightest. 

[publicist 4,643]

But you operate with lots of 'loaded' terms like coward, admirable since two pages as if the filmmakers owe you such things. They did what they did, probably fully knowing tht it wasn't your usual war fare and some people were bound to be cringing. Big deal. Part of the storyteller's risk.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Wait, so because they did something a little different means i'm not supposed to have an opinion about it? Interesting.

[karelm 2,913]

14 hours ago, Stefancos said:

Not from the main character! Who spent the film trying to run and dodge and get out at the expense of others!

 

Human, possibly...a hero? No fucking way.

 

You think it is easy that after many desperate failed attempts to get off the beach, you find yourself having to defend the french guy when you have a gun pointed at you by your teammates in a sitting duck boat needing to remove the weight of one/two adults as it is getting popped full of holes from Germans? 

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Anonymous British squaddie tries to defend anonymous French guy for a bit and I'm supposed to feel this is somehow meaningful and profound?

 

Okay....

 

The theme is cowardice is actually introduced very very late in the film. By that other British soldier fearing people at home are gonna think them cowards. I liked that concept and wish it had been introduced a bit earlier in the film.

The whole "heroic" welcome ending would have probably hit home for for me. As it is it feels tagged on at the end.

[TheUlyssesian 2,478]

15 hours ago, Stefancos said:

Not from the main character! Who spent the film trying to run and dodge and get out at the expense of others!

 

Human, possibly...a hero? No fucking way.

 

I think the most human trait any character can have is self-preservation. That is the one thing all of us have in common and one principle we will all subscribe to. I liked the fact that the lead guy helped the wounded soldier on the beach only because he thought it would get him off the beach.

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

39 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

Anonymous British squaddie tries to defend anonymous French guy for a bit and I'm supposed to feel this is somehow meaningful and profound?

 

Okay....

 

7 hours ago, Stefancos said:

Wait, so because they did something a little different means i'm not supposed to have an opinion about it? Interesting.

 

STEFANACOS is in a contrarian mood and we're supposed to argue with him about it?

 

Curious....

[BloodBoal 7,538]

He displays all the caracteristics of a ater, yet claims he isn't one. Typical ater behavior.

[Quintus 5,399]

Being a desperate coward frightened for your life is as good a reason as any to want to get off that beach. It looked like a really boring place to hang out, after all. Like the club before the surrounding bars have emptied out. Not much atmosphere.

[karelm 2,913]

Stef has seen Rambo too many times.  That is what he thinks a hero looks like.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

7 minutes ago, Quintus said:

Being a desperate coward frightened for your life is as good a reason as any to want to get off that beach. It looked like a really boring place to hang out, after all. Like the club before the surrounding bars have emptied out. Not much atmosphere.

 

It looked like a beach the day after the holiday season is over. Few leftover stragglers, people starting to break apart the beach houses getting everything ready for winter.

[Quintus 5,399]

It did. Blackpool.

 

Nolan made the legendary evacuation of Dunkirk look like end of season Blackpool.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

8 minutes ago, karelm said:

Stef has seen Rambo too many times.  That is what he thinks a hero looks like.

 

 

That's kinda my point. The lead in Dunkirk certainly isnt a hero. And I don't have much of a problem with that perse. But as a character he really isnt interesting. If you're gonna single out a person out of those 450.000 to follow throughout the film, give him a character.

 

 

1 minute ago, Quintus said:

It did. Blackpool.

 

Nolan made the legendary evacuation of Dunkirk look like end of season Blackpool.

 

Nolan's next film will be about the 1966 World Cup. In his retelling of it the England squad will be given a polite applause by the British crowds after beating Germany in the final.

39 minutes ago, TheGreyPilgrim said:

 

 

Stefancos is in a contrarian mood and we're supposed to argue with him about it?

 

 

You are more than welcome to argue my points. I finds your insights generally interesting. I do hope you will not resort to name-calling like a few years ago when I mentioned some minor gripes about Interstellar.

 

I don't think I came across your review of the film, but I assume you liked it more than me?

 

[Jay 37,351]

1 hour ago, Stefancos said:

I don't think I came across your review of the film, but I assume you liked it more than me?

 

 

http://www.jwfan.com/forums/index.php?/topic/24637-what-is-the-last-film-you-watched-newer-films/&do=findComment&comment=1371245

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Quote

- This is a "movie's movie," the best attempt at this so far, easily beating out other "experiences" like Avatar and Gravity

 

I'll have to respectfully disagree. Gravity in IMAX 3D sucked me right in. 

I actually love to watch that kinda film on a big screen. I was looking forward to that aspect of Dunkirk.

 

But sadly Nolan's detached style actually gave me a very detached viewing of the film. I was watching it, but wasnt experiencing it.

 

[crocodile 8,003]

You know what? I sort of enjoyed Gravity as a suspenseful thriller. I can appreciate it on that level. It didn't seem very intelligent to me but can't say it was an impressive eye candy.  And then I watched some making of stuff on Blu-ray and was exposed to Cuaron and his team talking about "transcendental" and "philosophical" dimensions and I just had to switch it off. He's worse than Zimmer when selling this bullcrap. They were talking some nonsense about the film being a metaphor for transformation and rebirth. Well...geniuses...every single story with a classical structure does that. Even fucking The Princess Diaries. This is what fiction does. Nothing original about it. So yeah, it was all pretty too look at. Pity it didn't have anything to say. It came off as incredibly ponderous and full of itself. And filmmakers commentaries only solidified that.

 

Nolan might come off as a snob sometimes to some people. Maybe that's his way of speaking, accent etc. But a lot of it has to do with the aura that a lot of press and coverage creates around his films. And also the fact they're not immediately cheerful the way, say, Marvel films are. But when you actually listen to him he's quite self-deprecating and down to earth about his work. He mostly talks about the technical stuff and his intentions. I loved the director commentaries on his early films where he would spend the whole running time talking about filmmaking and trying to give young directors something useful from the experience. Never really trying to sell himself as an auteur or great thinker. He's just a fan who gets to do the stuff on the big scale. He likes labyrinthine plots and puzzles. That's it. No great philosophy behind it.

 

Remember reading one article around the time they were making TDKR when an interviewer told him he's a modern Hitckcock and then they described that Nolan's reaction --- an uncomfortable face expression that looked as if he's been just punched in the stomach. I also remember when someone asked him about the political implications and meaning of his third Batman film and what it means, to which Nolan responded something like "I do have a lot of opinions on stuff but it's not what we're doing". I think he does realise how preposterous all this media hysteria is.

 

Karol

 

 

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Sure, but what does that have to do with Dunkirk? Which does seem like it has something important to say in the end, btw.

[crocodile 8,003]

I don't think it really does. Think you're trying to read too much into it because the reviews told you it was so great. It's a thriller film with very simple premise. Can't really say it makes any great statement.

 

Karol

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

8 minutes ago, crocodile said:

You know what? I sort of enjoyed Gravity as a suspenseful thriller. I can appreciate it on that level. It didn't seem very intelligent to me but can't say it was an impressive eye candy.  And then I watched some making of stuff on Blu-ray and was exposed to Cuaron and his team talking about "transcendental" and "philosophical" dimensions and I just had to switch it off. He's worse than Zimmer when selling this bullcrap. They were talking some nonsense about the film being a metaphor for transformation and rebirth. Well...geniuses...every single story with a classical structure does that. Even fucking The Princess Diaries. This is what fiction does. Nothing original about it. So yeah, it was all pretty too look at. Pity it didn't have anything to say. It came off as incredibly ponderous and full of itself. And filmmakers commentaries only solidified that.

 

Nolan might come off as a snob sometimes to some people. Maybe that's his way of speaking, accent etc. But a lot of it has to do with the aura that a lot of press and coverage creates around his films. And also the fact they're not immediately cheerful the way, say, Marvel films are. But when you actually listen to him he's quite self-deprecating and down to earth about his work. He mostly talks about the technical stuff and his intentions. I loved the director commentaries on his early films where he would spend the whole running time talking about filmmaking and trying to give young directors something useful from the experience. Never really trying to sell himself as an auteur or great thinker. He's just a fan who gets to do the stuff on the big scale. He likes labyrinthine plots and puzzles. That's it. No great philosophy behind it.

 

Remember reading one article around the time they were making TDKR when an interviewer told him he's a modern Hitckcock and then they described that Nolan's reaction --- an uncomfortable face expression that looked as if he's been just punched in the stomach. I also remember when someone asked him about the political implications and meaning of his third Batman film and what it means, to which Nolan responded something like "I do have a lot of opinions on stuff but it's not what we're doing". I think he does realise how preposterous all this media hysteria is.

 

Karol

 

A fine sermon!

 

Sharky put it well when he said this film seems to be a sort of Rorschach test on which the audience will project much of their own "meaning," if any.  I think all of Nolan's films have been like that, actually.  The template is there for the audience to draw its own conclusions - he obviously has some emotional arc of his own under the surface, but the films are never demanding or pushy of certain themes or ideas.  Hence the widespread feeling that his work can be sterile.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Karol.

 

Please don't put words in my mouth or think to presume anything like that!

I hadnt read a single review before seeing the film and my opinion of it is based solely on my viewing of it.

 

As for the final 'meaningful" part. You CANNOT convince me that you end a film with some famously stirring Elgar music and a quote from Winston Churchill and it's not supposed to be meaningful and profound in any way.

[crocodile 8,003]

4 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

Karol.

 

Please don't put words in my mouth or think to presume anything like that!

I hadnt read a single review before seeing the film and my opinion of it is based solely on my viewing of it.

 

As for the final 'meaningful" part. You CANNOT convince me that you end a film with some famously stirring Elgar music and a quote from Winston Churchill and it's not supposed to be meaningful and profound in any way.

I think that the coda feels very misplaced. I guess it was their awkward way to somehow wrap it up. But it doesn't quite work.

 

But what also is, I think, quite interesting is that the final shot of the film almost contradicts that. We don't get any grand sweeping shot. We just cut to the "main character" sort of looking unimpressed. I thought that was quite surprising. Not sure what it means but I liked it.

 

As for putting words in your mouth, one of the first things you said about the film is that it was "overrated".

 

Karol

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Does that mean I have read any reviews about it before seeing it?

 

All I saw was loads of people waxing lyrical of Facebook, but that's not what i consider a review.

3 minutes ago, crocodile said:

I think that the coda feels very misplaced. I guess it was their awkward way to somehow wrap it up. But it doesn't quite work.

 

It doesnt feel earned. There's nothing in the film before it that really sets it up. All the time it appears to be about just straight survival, and suddenly in the last scene it goes for the patriotism.

 

Weird. 

[Quintus 5,399]

All these posts and nobody has even bothered to talk about Harry Styles yet.

[crocodile 8,003]

And who is that?

Karol

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

5 minutes ago, Quintus said:

All these posts and nobody has even bothered to talk about Harry Styles yet.

 

Was he the soldier who was afraid of being branded a coward?

[Quintus 5,399]

Yeah. Suppose it was a part anybody could have played really, so it may as well have been him as anybody else.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Of the younger cast members only the kids on the boat stood out really. Was the lead in anything before this or just cast because he looks like a 20 year old Christian Bale?

[Koray Savas 2,251]

He's a pop star.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Yes he is. Do you like One Direction, Koray?

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Never heard his music, but if you knew who he was, why did you bother asking your question?

[Disco Stu 15,495]

Karol asked, not Stefan.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

47 minutes ago, Koray Savas said:

Never heard his music, but if you knew who he was, why did you bother asking your question?

 

I didn't ask. I knew he was in this. Just wasnt sure what role.

[A24 4,331]

20 hours ago, crocodile said:

He likes labyrinthine plots and puzzles. That's it.

 

 

Bingo!

 

 

I do wonder if some think solving the labyrinth is synonymous with depth.

 

Having said that, Dunkirk isn't a puzzle movie, right?!

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

No, not even in the slightest.

 

Not sure what it is, actually.

[A24 4,331]

3 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

Not sure what it is, actually.

 

I thought it was an experience movie. I generally like those! In fact, they might be my favorite type of movies

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I do too, but I wasn't really feeling it. Maybe it only works on a huge IMAX screen?

 

You'll like the camerawork though. You mentioned Hoyt Hoytema's work on SPECTRE. This also looks very good.

[A24 4,331]

I do like Hoytema.

 

I wonder if this film doesn't work better if you look at it from a "how' perspective instead of a "what" perspective.

[Quintus 5,399]

It just looked photographically acceptable to me. Didn't stand out but got the job done effectively. Bit too clinical looking for my tastes, as if Soderbergh pointed cameras at the coast of France.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

8 minutes ago, Alexcremers said:

I wonder if this film doesn't work better if you look at it from a "how' perspective instead of a "what" perspective.

 

What do you mean?

3 minutes ago, Quintus said:

It just looked photographically acceptable to me. Didn't stand out but got the job done effectively. Bit too clinical looking for my tastes, as if Soderbergh pointed cameras at the coast of France.

 

Really? I thought it looked visually beautiful. especially the aerial stuff. 

Wouldnt say that it raised my appreciation of the film a great deal though.

[A24 4,331]

Just now, Stefancos said:

 

What do you mean?

 

Some call it "style over substance". 

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Too ordinary in it's style for that. Nolan's films usually are. Technically flawless and polished. But when have you ever been blown away visually? 

Even Interstellar was lacking that a bit for me.