Naïve Old Fart 9,507 Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 2 hours ago, Stefancos said: Jerry Goldsmith was slightly better. I agree. JW is a master at wringing out just about every emotion from a scene, but JG's is deeper, "spiritually". THE FINAL CONFLICT, POLTERGEIST, and STAR TREK: TMP, and V have a spirituality that matches the best of Rozsa. If anything, JW is the flip side of that (SLEEPERS). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brundlefly 2,385 Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 3 hours ago, Stefancos said: Jerry Goldsmith was slightly better. True one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 45 minutes ago, Richard said: I agree. JW is a master at wringing out just about every emotion from a scene, but JG's is deeper, "spiritually". THE FINAL CONFLICT, POLTERGEIST, and STAR TREK: TMP, and V have a spirituality that matches the best of Rozsa. If anything, JW is the flip side of that (SLEEPERS). Goldsmith scored V? I thought it was Joe Harnell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brundlefly 2,385 Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 52 minutes ago, Richard said: I agree. JW is a master at wringing out just about every emotion from a scene, but JG's is deeper, "spiritually". THE FINAL CONFLICT, POLTERGEIST, and STAR TREK: TMP, and V have a spirituality that matches the best of Rozsa. If anything, JW is the flip side of that (SLEEPERS). An example, where JW reaches that nuanced and thorough level of emotional writing is the sex scene from Presumed Innocent. Intensity, ambition, danger and the prediction of the tragedy - this moment is as outstandingly perceptively composed as JG's "Lost Ship/Prepare the Ship". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveMc 2,674 Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 3 hours ago, Nick Parker said: Whether or not this opinion is unpopular on this board, I'm not sure, but: I think John Williams writes music on an immensely, spiritually profound level, that connects on a deep, almost primordial emotional plane. Even in his works that I care for the least I find glimpses of this life force that I truly believe suffuses just about everything he works on. Beethoven called it the divine fire. In terms of pure spirituality in film music, no one comes close to Rozsa, save perhaps Morricone in The Mission. Goldsmith has his moments, but Williams comes close from time to time. Remembrances from Schindler's List is one of these times. When Williams is spiritual, he is at his most human. Rozsa, like Bach and late Mozart, seems to be in touch with something beyond that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 Spiritus. The Divine breath. Inspiration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,478 Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 I agree with whoever mentioned Williams' 'spirituality'. I tend to label this 'the religious sound' myself, and is probably the primary reason why he's my favourite composer. Not the swashbuckling action stuff, but the pastoral, almost "English" beauty of so many of his compositions (Elgar, RVW etc). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balahkay 627 Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 Not sure how unpopular this is, but I'm not the biggest fan of Williams Indy scores. Aside from a few tracks and short round's theme, I just don't feel the love for these scores. Maybe a proper expansion will sway me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveMc 2,674 Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 They are good scores. Raiders perhaps too much dependent on the main theme, though. I'm not so very familiar with TOD, but I think TLC is very impressive. I'll agree, though, that none of them really represent Williams's very best work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,033 Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 I understand you. But there's a lot of interesting snippets here and there throughout the scores, but it requires a more active listening. Because of this they're not the scores I listen to the most. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naïve Old Fart 9,507 Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 5 minutes ago, someonefun124 said: Not sure how unpopular this is, but I'm not the biggest fan of Williams Indy scores. Aside from a few tracks and short round's theme, I just don't feel the love for these scores. Maybe a proper expansion will sway me. Share your thought with us, @someonefun124 , and gain strength from the sharing. Don't be ashamed at not liking IJ; its only a blooming movie score. Until I heard the Concord, I hated TLC. Now, its not half bad, so there's hope for you, yet. I'm still miffed that, instead of even more music on the box set, there's yet another redundant and sycophantic LB interview. Jurassic Shark 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bespin 8,480 Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 10 minutes ago, someonefun124 said: Not sure how unpopular this is, but I'm not the biggest fan of Williams Indy scores. Aside from a few tracks and short round's theme, I just don't feel the love for these scores. Maybe a proper expansion will sway me. It take guts to write that on a JW forum. Do you have listened to the Concord boxset? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naïve Old Fart 9,507 Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 4 minutes ago, Steve McQueen said: I'll agree, though, that none of them really represent Williams's very best work. Sorry, Stevie, but THE MAP ROOM: DAWN, THE BASKET GAME, DESERT CHASE, and THE MIRACLE OF THE ARK rally does represent JW at his very best. Jurassic Shark 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,478 Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 I'm not that fond of RAIDERS and TEMPLE OF DOOM (relatively speaking), but TLC remains one of my favourite JW scores, and -- as a consequence -- one of my alltime favourite scores. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveMc 2,674 Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 1 minute ago, Richard said: Sorry, Stevie, but THE MAP ROOM: DAWN, THE BASKET GAME, DESERT CHASE, and THE MIRACLE OF THE ARK rally does represent JW at his very best. Oh, no doubt. These are moments of immense cinematic and musical prowess. Yet, I was referring to the scores as a whole, how all the elements mesh together. In that respect, works like CE3K and E.T. take top billing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naïve Old Fart 9,507 Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 TOD, and TLC, perhaps, but ROTLA is up there with the best of the best. It's all personal, though, isn't it? I mean, look at @Thor's last post. It just goes to show.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balahkay 627 Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 "Miracle of the Ark" is the only Indy track in my playlist. I find it to be brilliant, actually. I don't feel the Indy scores to be terrible by any means, they just haven't resonated with me like other blockbuster scores such as SW, HP and JP. Naïve Old Fart 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bespin 8,480 Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 Why wrote ROTLA instead of Raiders, it just two letters more, geez. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naïve Old Fart 9,507 Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 Swings and roundabouts, my friend Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bespin 8,480 Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 3 minutes ago, someonefun124 said: "Miracle of the Ark" is the only Indy track in my playlist. Ok, "Your PLAYLIST...", well add it these tracks NOW. - Raiders March from the Crystal Skull OST - Finale from the Crystal Skull OST - The Adventures of Mutt from Crystal Skull OST - Marion's Theme from the Lockhart album - Scherzo for Motorcyle and Orchestra from JW/Spielberg Album Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balahkay 627 Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 I've heard them, that's why they're not in my playlist. Jurassic Shark 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bespin 8,480 Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 3 minutes ago, someonefun124 said: I've heard them, that's why they're not in my playlist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,033 Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 25 minutes ago, Thor said: I'm not that fond of RAIDERS and TEMPLE OF DOOM (relatively speaking), but TLC remains one of my favourite JW scores, and -- as a consequence -- one of my alltime favourite scores. Love the "religious" sound of this score! Definitely the best of the four. Thor 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveMc 2,674 Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 14 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said: Love the "religious" sound of this score! Definitely the best of the four. Perhaps so. It is a quite interesting transition score between what I like to call Williams's "heroic" period, and the more weighty, if you will, style he employed in the early 90s. Jurassic Shark 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,478 Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 The OST is just one glorious setpiece after the other! Jurassic Shark 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Dixon Hill 4,233 Posted February 23, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted February 23, 2018 I love the Indy scores, especially TLC. They remind me of childhood. Those films weren't the sprawling bombast of something like Star Wars. They were lighter, and in a way more engaging romps. Summer films caught on VHS or on TV in brief snatches more often than in full, intermingled with the other various activities of youth in the summer. A hazy evening in July and a casual screening of Raiders go well in hand. It was a lovely time. John Williams was then, to me, a somewhat vague figure who I knew spent time up in the quiet of Tanglewood, who seemed redolent of Boston, New England, and a sort of academic Americana moreso than of Hollywood, and who I felt must have written Henry Jones' theme for himself, being a wise sage of an older gentleman. I don't think this is an unpopular opinion, I'm pretty sure many children of the early 80s, and probably the 90s too, feel the same way. Cerebral Cortex, Not Mr. Big, Jurassic Shark and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,033 Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 29 minutes ago, TGP said: and who I felt must have written Henry Jones' theme for himself, being a wise sage of an older gentleman. Nice comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Penna 3,675 Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 2 hours ago, someonefun124 said: "Miracle of the Ark" is the only Indy track in my playlist. I find it to be brilliant, actually. I don't feel the Indy scores to be terrible by any means, they just haven't resonated with me like other blockbuster scores such as SW, HP and JP. I would be surprised, but I've only got 4 Star Wars tracks, so I empathize. There's too much music out there to waste time trying to get into music you don't 'get'. To be blunt, I don't give a shit how 'essential' a score is. I've got between 20 and 30 mins each from Raiders, ToD and Skull, and an hour from LC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasey Kockroach 2,343 Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 -As a listening experience, The Lost World is even better than Jurassic Park. -I've never resonated with Star Wars music, save possibly Rey's theme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveMc 2,674 Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 29 minutes ago, kaseykockroach said: -As a listening experience, The Lost World is even better than Jurassic Park. -I've never resonated with Star Wars music, save possibly Rey's theme. I don't think your first is an all that unpopular opinion around here. Your second is quite possibly seditious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasey Kockroach 2,343 Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 I don't know what that word means and will have to look it up later, but to elaborate, being a John Williams fan has always mainly been associated with loving Star Wars music. As such, I've bought a handful of the albums over the years...and I never listen to them. Once that main title theme is done, I zone out and forget what I'm listening to and put on Craig Safan's Last Starfighter instead. I can never really pick up on or resonate with any particular cues or themes. It's just not my genre cup of tea, and I think Safan's main theme is better anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oswin Pond 58 Posted February 24, 2018 Share Posted February 24, 2018 - I think Revenge of the Sith is not only the best Star Wars soundtrack, not only the best Williams' composition but the best composition of all time, every media and composers included. And Across the Stars is the best piece of music of all History Movie speaking, I also like the prequels as much as the original trilogy and the sequels (Except TFA) - I hate Luke and Leia. I did like The Spark's version though! - I hate Superman's main theme and I despise Indiana Jones' main theme (Although the rest of the albums are excellent) - The first 16 seconds of Leia's theme is the worst thing John William has ever composed. The rest is one of the best. - Schindler's list's soundtrack is over emotional but I still like it. - Harry Potter 3 is one of the best movie William's ever composed and way better than HP 1 and 2 soundtracks. And I loooove Aunt Marge's Waltz. - The Last Jedi's soundtrack was way better than The Force Awakens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveMc 2,674 Posted February 24, 2018 Share Posted February 24, 2018 This is a lot to take in. I'll just limit my comments to Princess Leia's Theme, one of my favorites, especially because of the beginning. The first 16 seconds set the mood for what is to come. The flute and oboe passages, against a harmonically complex background, set the stage for what is to follow. The emotional world in which the yearning beauty of the main melody lives. The true meaning of the rest of the piece does not exist without it. Oswin Pond 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oswin Pond 58 Posted February 24, 2018 Share Posted February 24, 2018 Haha it's ok ! That's what this thread is for. I like the idea. The worst thing is I completly agree with you and it is well composed and written... but everytime I hear it I cringe, I have no rational reason why. I much prefer the beginning of "Han and Leia" from The Force Awakens! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveMc 2,674 Posted February 24, 2018 Share Posted February 24, 2018 Well, preference is, in its own way, rational. And it is great to hear your opinions, Oswin. By all means enjoy the forum. Oswin Pond 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 Revenge of the Sith is an awesome score. Oswin Pond 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveMc 2,674 Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 So it is. Personally, I rank it third after TESB and SW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 It's where the fun begins. Oswin Pond 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,304 Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 I rank ROTS 3rd as well, but truthfully my order changes regularly (as each new score allows me to re-evaluate the series as a whole and Williams' contributions). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brundlefly 2,385 Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 2 hours ago, Oswin Pond said: - I think Revenge of the Sith is not only the best Star Wars soundtrack, not only the best Williams' composition but the best composition of all time, every media and composers included. And Across the Stars is the best piece of music of all History Movie speaking, I also like the prequels as much as the original trilogy and the sequels (Except TFA) It is a very experimental and disturbing score and therefore I love it, but I wouldn't go that far. 2 hours ago, Oswin Pond said: - I hate Luke and Leia. I did like The Spark's version though! I kinda agree. 2 hours ago, Oswin Pond said: - I hate Superman's main theme and I despise Indiana Jones' main theme (Although the rest of the albums are excellent) Of course they are terrible, but that's not Mr. Williams fault. These pieces are simply overplayed to death. 2 hours ago, Oswin Pond said: - The first 16 seconds of Leia's theme is the worst thing John William has ever composed. The rest is one of the best. I don't know what exactly you mean, but they are somehow a bit creepy. 2 hours ago, Oswin Pond said: - Schindler's list's soundtrack is over emotional but I still like it. Very emotional, but not over emotional, I would say. James Horner is often over emotional. 2 hours ago, Oswin Pond said: - Harry Potter 3 is one of the best movie William's ever composed and way better than HP 1 and 2 soundtracks. And I loooove Aunt Marge's Waltz. Yes, yes, and yes! Harry Potter 3 is for me what Star Wars 3 is for you. 2 hours ago, Oswin Pond said: - The Last Jedi's soundtrack was way better than The Force Awakens I like TLJ way more than TFA, although I don't want to rate it objectively. Oswin Pond 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 Sith is the strongest Star Wars score once Anakin turns. Williams hasn't hit the notes like that since. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John 2,032 Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 2 hours ago, Oswin Pond said: - I think Revenge of the Sith is not only the best Star Wars soundtrack, not only the best Williams' composition but the best composition of all time, every media and composers included. And Across the Stars is the best piece of music of all History Movie speaking, I also like the prequels as much as the original trilogy and the sequels (Except TFA) No. 2 hours ago, Oswin Pond said: - I hate Luke and Leia. I did like The Spark's version though! No. 2 hours ago, Oswin Pond said: - I hate Superman's main theme and I despise Indiana Jones' main theme (Although the rest of the albums are excellent) No. 2 hours ago, Oswin Pond said: - The first 16 seconds of Leia's theme is the worst thing John William has ever composed. The rest is one of the best. No. 2 hours ago, Oswin Pond said: - Schindler's list's soundtrack is over emotional but I still like it. Heck no. 2 hours ago, Oswin Pond said: - Harry Potter 3 is one of the best movie William's ever composed and way better than HP 1 and 2 soundtracks. And I loooove Aunt Marge's Waltz. This is 50/50; I disagree with the first part of this statement, yet I agree with the second half. 2 hours ago, Oswin Pond said: - The Last Jedi's soundtrack was way better than The Force Awakens No. Final score: 0.5 out of 7. This post really puts the "un" in "unpopular". Oswin Pond and Ollie 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkgyver 1,645 Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 Fair statement. But RotS "experimental"? WTF? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oswin Pond 58 Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 1 hour ago, JohnSolo said: Final score: 0.5 out of 7. This post really puts the "un" in "unpopular". I protest, if you completly disagree with me it should be a 6.5/7 since this thread is about unpopularity ! 1 hour ago, Brundlefly said: Of course they are terrible, but that's not Mr. Williams fault. These pieces are simply overplayed to death. True ! Quote Yes, yes, and yes! Harry Potter 3 is for me what Star Wars 3 is for you. I'm glad I found another HP3 lover Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 Williams' best score is The Lost World. Unlucky Bastard and Jay 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveMc 2,674 Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 1 hour ago, Brundlefly said: Of course they are terrible, but that's not Mr. Williams fault. These pieces are simply overplayed to death. They are fun pieces which work well in context, and work well in concert, to a point. If a piece of music gets too popular, it tends to lose some of its luster if you do not put an effort to look beyond the popularity and at the original essence of genius behind it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasey Kockroach 2,343 Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 I really don't get the "John Williams is 85 and he's still better than anyone else today!" mantra. Is he still good? Of course! He's still fabulous! Even if the only theme I remember from him lately is Rey's Theme, I like that one theme more than enough to confidently say his time with 'modern' Star Wars is worthwhile. But he's not the only single worthwhile composer around, both in and outside the Hollywood lands. I wish folks would broaden their horizons just a little bit. Confessedly, there are certain composers around today whose work I thoroughly find more engaging than The Post or BFG or whatever. And no, reassuredly, Giacchino isn't one of them (though I remember more about Jurassic World's score than Force Awakens'). And for the record, that doesn't particularly apply to any one post or person here (this is a forum dedicated to him after all), moreso referring to how critics give 5-star reviews to every other thing Williams touches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveMc 2,674 Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 Williams is the last living legend of film music. It only makes sense for critics to shower him with praise now, something they didn't always do. But, the fact is, Williams is the greatest living composer of orchestral music in the world. Certainly there are many luminaries in contemporary classical music, and some talented figures in modern film scoring. But, the hard truth is this: modern classical music is stiff and elitist, even at its most progressive, and modern film music is banal and repetitive. Williams, even on a bad day, writes music that is better because it remains vibrant, accessible and technically advanced. Art is not only for artists. The consummate artist shares his soul with the world, arranging his message in a form that endures. Jurassic Shark 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,233 Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 Hmm. Trying to decide if I want to do this obvious debate. Steve McQueen seems a reasonable bloke, but I just don't know if I have the energy even so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasey Kockroach 2,343 Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 Nah, don't, I've no desire to spark one. Apologies if it seemed as though I was trying to instigate anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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