Jurassic Shark 12,024 Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 Your opinion is too unpopular for this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 7 hours ago, Denise Bryson said: It's nothing to do with their length, it's the intentional dead spots in modern blockbuster movies that provide a window for social media users to pull their phone out and tweet about the movie. Intentional dead spots = logical dead end of modern blockbusters' insistence on premeditated 'action' highlights every 10 minutes for a numbed teenage audience. You just use no such services or you would realize that a Twitter user doesn't need any 'dead spot' to facilitate their habit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not Mr. Big 4,639 Posted March 4, 2018 Share Posted March 4, 2018 Rey's Theme is the best Star Wars theme Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,024 Posted March 4, 2018 Share Posted March 4, 2018 If you say so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveMc 2,674 Posted March 4, 2018 Share Posted March 4, 2018 58 minutes ago, Not Mr. Big said: Rey's Theme is the best Star Wars theme Princess Leia's Theme, no contest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted March 4, 2018 Share Posted March 4, 2018 1 hour ago, Not Mr. Big said: Rey's Theme is the best Star Wars theme This! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted March 4, 2018 Share Posted March 4, 2018 Yeah it's alright. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted March 4, 2018 Share Posted March 4, 2018 The tragic motif/theme/whatever from Lament and Padme's Visit is the best. Oswin Pond 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,943 Posted March 4, 2018 Share Posted March 4, 2018 The one used in "Anakin's Betrayal"? Yeah, that's fantastic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted March 4, 2018 Share Posted March 4, 2018 That example from the PT is unrivaled by anything in the originals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trent B 337 Posted March 4, 2018 Share Posted March 4, 2018 I really don't care for most of Williams' scores. *runs and hides* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brundlefly 2,385 Posted March 4, 2018 Share Posted March 4, 2018 Battle of the Heros is the most boring and lame theme that JW has ever composed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Penna 3,669 Posted March 4, 2018 Share Posted March 4, 2018 I mostly take issue with the rubbish opening (somewhere earlier in this thread), but the theme itself isn't particularly good either. This is the point where Marcus and several others will start preaching about how much thought, craft and sheer genius went into every second of this piece. I'll pre-emptively state that I don't give a shit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveMc 2,674 Posted March 4, 2018 Share Posted March 4, 2018 Great deal of craft, I'll admit. But, I too never latched on to the piece. Too much in Carmina Burana territory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John 2,032 Posted March 4, 2018 Share Posted March 4, 2018 Gopher tuna? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,943 Posted March 4, 2018 Share Posted March 4, 2018 Yeah, I'm not too big a fan of Battle of the Heroes, either. It smacks of Williams trying to write "another Duel of the Fates", only not nearly as good. The lament is a much better theme, and one that defines the film more than Battle of the Heroes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveMc 2,674 Posted March 4, 2018 Share Posted March 4, 2018 Oh, wait. I may be confusing the two. I still don't really like either, though ROTS is my #4 SW score. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trent B 337 Posted March 4, 2018 Share Posted March 4, 2018 Battle Of The Heroes definitely falls short compared to Duel Of The Fates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Penna 3,669 Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 Anakin vs Obi-Wan does more interesting things with the theme, and already feels like a concert piece to some extent. BotH feels unneeded Oswin Pond 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brundlefly 2,385 Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 8 hours ago, Steve McQueen said: Great deal of craft, I'll admit. But that's exactly the problem. It's the least good crafted theme of John Williams ever! It comes across like he had this tragic motif for the duel scenes at the end and because Duel of the Fates was so successful, they told Williams to make a theme out of it. It's just a little motif with two different chords. 6 hours ago, Richard Penna said: Anakin vs Obi-Wan does more interesting things with the theme, and already feels like a concert piece to some extent. BotH feels unneeded Exactly. The logical consequence of what was apparently going on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,943 Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 And still, it does serve the function of the memorable theme that you can recall or even whistle going out of the film. In terms of a theme that has a dramatic impact and gives the score a sense of identity, that's the role of the lament theme. Jurassic Shark 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,024 Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 34 minutes ago, Brundlefly said: But that's exactly the problem. It's the least good crafted theme of John Williams ever! To me, BOTH is a tie with the COS theme, but as always JW's eminent orchestrations save the day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,943 Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 But speaking of those orchestrational choices, it does smack of Williams following (or, rather, being made to follow by George Lucas) the film scores du jour: the ample use of SATB and boy choirs and taiko drums feel straight out of Lord of the Rings, the moaning woman right out of Gladiator; all we're missing are the uileann pipes from Braveheart and Titanic. But I will say, the Lord of the Rings-esque operatic vibe suits that score, which in and of itself makes it one of my very favorite scores. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,024 Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 I don't sense much LOTR in BOTH (nor the rest of the score), and what moaning woman are you talking about? FYI: Howard Shore didn't invent the SATB choir nor the boy choir, nor the taiko drum. All these elements are often found in classical music. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pro-arte 22 Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 On 23/07/2017 at 9:47 PM, Bilbo said: Yes but the right composers are all dead. Jerry Goldsmith was there ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,943 Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 16 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said: I don't sense much LOTR in BOTH, and what moaning woman are you talking about? FYI: Howard Shore didn't invent the SATB choir nor the boy choir. Not necessarily in Battle of the Heroes, but in the score as a whole. Williams used choirs before, but he never before (or afterwards) crafted a score that feels like an opera in the way that the Middle Earth scores do. The inspiration, especially in tracks such as "Anakin's Dark Deeds" is quite obvious. And again, there's also a touch of Gladiator in "Padme's Ruminations" and probably some other popular scores of the era. And while it is a touch deriviative, I will say it fits the atmosphere of the film. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,024 Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 It's was not unreasonable to give the score to Ep. III an operatic character, given the film's subject and it being the final installment (at the time). JW's surely familiar with the classic operas and the compositional techniques that go into them. Besides, his "operatic" influence was clear already in TPM with Duel of the Fates, before Fellowship of the Rings, and he's written music on a grand dramatic scale also earlier. So you could actually say Shore was inspired by JW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,943 Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 8 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said: Besides, his "operatic" influence was clear already in TPM with Duel of the Fates, before Fellowship of the Rings, and he's written music on a grand dramatic scale also earlier. So you could actually say Shore was inspired by JW. Not really, no. The Phantom Menace has operatic passages, but on the whole its much closer to the sound of the first three Star Wars films. Revenge of the Sith, especially after the midpoint, is really quite operatic. Its unlike any other Williams score that I can recall, and you have some dead giveaways like "Anakin's Dark Deeds." Listen to it back-to-back with "The Treason of Isengard" someday and you might be in for a surprise. I don't think it was a concious decision by Williams as much as it was driven by George Lucas. He really liked the Lord of the Rings films, and I can only assume he enjoyed Gladiator, as well. We're just lucky he didn't want pipes for Padme's funeral! But as you say, it fits the atmosphere of the film so no harm done. Its actually one of my very favorite scores. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,024 Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 I'm only saying the operatic seed in the prequels was planted in TPM with Duel of the Fates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,943 Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 Yeah, but in Sith its all over the place, and that's after a much more scaled-back use of voices in Attack of the Clones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,024 Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 The story of RotS begs for an operatic score, because of the tragic love story that it is. It's much like a tragic opera, and I doubt that JW wouldn't let that similarity go unnoticed, regardless of the influences at the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aviazn 273 Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 I love ROTJ—probably my second-favorite SW score—but I thought it was commonly accepted that it was temped with lots of popular stuff from that era. The Anakin's Dark Deeds/Treason of Isengard is a dead giveaway. I'm with those who prefer Anakin vs Obi-wan over BOTH, which seems stitched together with elements of Duel of the Fates, the brass stabs from Finlandia, and the climax of Neodämmerung from Matrix Revolutions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,024 Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 Anakin vs. Obi-wan is indeed awesome! aviazn 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aviazn 273 Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 The funny thing is, when Williams borrows from temp stuff, a lot of the time, I wind up much preferring Williams' paraphrase of the temp than the original temp itself. The chase and finale of E.T. and the last movement of Hanson's second symphony come to mind. The E.T. cue is a blatant stealing of all the major musical elements of the Hanson movement, beat for beat, structured in precisely the same order, but each one has a little rhythmic or melodic twist that makes it fresher, bolder, and brasher. If you asked me which one I wanted to listen to, I'd pick the E.T. cue every day of the week. To me, that's an almost impossible level of craft—that Williams can take a template, filter it through his own sensibility, and instead of winding up using it as a crutch, actually improve upon it. I would say though that the borrowing in ROTJ doesn't quite rise to that level, but it still feels distinctly Star Wars-ian. Not Mr. Big 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brundlefly 2,385 Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 1 hour ago, Chen G. said: Not necessarily in Battle of the Heroes, but in the score as a whole. Williams used choirs before, but he never before (or afterwards) crafted a score that feels like an opera in the way that the Middle Earth scores do. The inspiration, especially in tracks such as "Anakin's Dark Deeds" is quite obvious. And again, there's also a touch of Gladiator in "Padme's Ruminations" and probably some other popular scores of the era. And while it is a touch deriviative, I will say it fits the atmosphere of the film. I wouldn't necessarily say that he took inspiration from Howard Shore, but more the general idea. Jurassic Shark 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,943 Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 In some cases, it goes a bit beyond that. The opening to the Dark Deeds sounds too much like the Seduction of the Ring: humming, melancholic boy choir over bass drum strokes. Which is to say nothing of Padme's Ruminations. Again, probably the result of George Lucas pushing for that sound more than anything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,024 Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 Oh man, the guy who did the score to Amadeus totally ripped off the temp track. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naïve Old Fart 9,493 Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 A (supposedly true) story about AMADEUS goes: The writer and producers of the play were pitching the story to the suits at Warner's. They mention how great Mozart was, and what he had achieved. At this, one of the suits says "That's great! Who's going to do the score?" Jurassic Shark 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,024 Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 ...and then someone said "you're gonna need a better composer for this", and the producer replied "I know, but they're all dead". The Illustrious Jerry 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balahkay 627 Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 I like the Stepmom score. Maybe a little sappy but still a tender score. Not Mr. Big and Jurassic Shark 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
filmmusic 1,823 Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 On 4/3/2018 at 5:17 PM, Not Mr. Big said: Rey's Theme is the best Star Wars theme On 4/3/2018 at 6:17 PM, Steve McQueen said: Princess Leia's Theme, no contest. I'm leaning towards the Force theme being the best Star Wars theme. (although I don't think this is an unpopular opinion) * * * Stanley and Iris is better than Force Awakens and The Last Jedi combined! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,024 Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 Iris might be better, but definitely not Stanley. filmmusic 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naïve Old Fart 9,493 Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 34 minutes ago, filmmusic said: I'm leaning towards the Force theme being the best Star Wars theme. (although I don't think this is an unpopular opinion) It's unpopular with some, by virtue of the fact that it's popular with most. So, what you said was true...from a certain point of view filmmusic and Smaug The Iron 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,943 Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 1 hour ago, filmmusic said: I'm leaning towards the Force theme being the best Star Wars theme. Yep. The Illustrious Jerry and filmmusic 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 Without a doubt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John 2,032 Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 But... Jar Jar's theme... Jurassic Shark and Chen G. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,943 Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 And don't forget the "Brother and Sister" motive! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Illustrious Jerry 3,356 Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 Edit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,943 Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 Yes, it really is the theme that connects the scores. The Luke/Star Wars theme rolls over the credit, but often features very sparingly (if at all) in the actual score. The Illustrious Jerry 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,024 Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 @Jerry, funny new avatar! The Illustrious Jerry 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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