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So, from time to time, we all bitch and moan about John's bizarre OST presentations, but which ones frustrate you the most?

 

Upon revisiting Azkaban in the car today, I actually rolled my eyes upon reaching Mischief Managed (and no, not because the 12 minute track is an exhausting waste of album space). For some stupid reason I'd psyched myself up to hear the wonderful alternative ending to Buckbeak's Flight at this section, only to realise John reused the same ending as Buckbeak's Flight from earlier in the OST:

 

The film version of the end credits features the alternate ending from the film proper after Harry & Hermione rescue Sirius from the cell atop Hogwarts. Worse still, in a Temple of Doom-esque moment of madness, John microedited the very cool start of the end credits to remove a fun variation on the Double Trouble theme (almost entirely absent from the OST).

 

It got me thinking: which "creative" OST decisions, be it combined tracks, microedits (no shortage of those) or repeated cues, have frustrated you the most?

ie. Why Mike Matessino is our savior.

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The only micro edit I never loved, is the Star Wars Main Theme on the 1977 OST. The edit is so badly done technically... com'on Johnny you should really have re-recorded this one!

 

Fortunately, the bad edit have been corrected on the 1993 Anthology Boxset.

 

There is absolutely no reason now to listen to the original version, even the one that have been reissued digitally recently.

 

The edit of the Main title of Empire Strikes Back with the Mynock cave cue always fascinated me... What the hell? But hey, it works! Nobody ever re-recorded this version and I don't even think the music sheet exist.... 

 

But, eh, after all, John Williams have perfectly the right to do what he wants with his music!

 

 

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5 minutes ago, Thor said:

I've never had any issue with that cue whatsoever.

What about the microedit at the end of Anakin's Dark Deeds?

 

1 minute ago, Bespin said:

The only micro edit I never loved, is the Star Wars Main Theme on the 1977 OST. The edit is so bad... com'on Johnny you should really have re-recorded this one!

Ironically, he's kept the same edit in subsequent concert arrangements of this same track. Heck, he played it just a few months back at Celebration!

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5 minutes ago, crumbs said:

Ironically, he's kept the same edit in subsequent concert arrangements of this same track. Heck, he played it just a few months back at Celebration!

 

Yes I know, the edited version became THE version. :-) Gerhardt, Mehta, then even JW and the BPO re-recorded this version shortly after the release of the score.

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27 minutes ago, crumbs said:

So, from time to time, we all bitch and moan about John's bizarre OST presentations, but which ones frustrate you the most?

 

Upon revisiting Azkaban in the car today, I actually rolled my eyes upon reaching Mischief Managed (and no, not because the 12 minute track is an exhausting waste of album space). For some stupid reason I'd psyched myself up to hear the wonderful alternative ending to Buckbeak's Flight at this section, only to realise John reused the same ending as Buckbeak's Flight from earlier in the OST:

 

The film version of the end credits features the alternate ending from the film proper after Harry & Hermione rescue Sirius from the cell atop Hogwarts. Worse still, in a Temple of Doom-esque moment of madness, John microedited the very cool start of the end credits to remove a fun variation on the Double Trouble theme (almost entirely absent from the OST).

 

It got me thinking: which "creative" OST decisions, be it combined tracks, microedits (no shortage of those) or repeated cues, have frustrated you the most?

ie. Why Mike Matessino is our savior.

 

Speaking of PoA... I never liked the Wizard Bus queue. It works in the movie, somewhat, but on album... I cringe. And I totally agree about the beginning of the end credits. Still my fav HP movie and score though.

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8 minutes ago, Bespin said:

Yes I know, this edited version became THE version. :-)

 

Seems to be a thing with Star Wars soundtracks. :lol: 

 

Only ROTS, ROTJ & TFA actually feature the music from the opening scenes. 

 

Star Wars tracked the end credits. Empire tracked a microedited version of Mynock Cave. TPM tracked Arrival on Coruscant and AOTC tracked Arrival on Kamino.

 

Amusingly, John then named the prequel tracks after their film opening counterparts, creating further confusion. :lol:

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32 minutes ago, Thor said:

I can't think of a single JW-produced OST that has frustrated me. Quite the contrary, they've all been masterfully presented. Now the expansions, on the other hand....

 

Yeah he cuts all the shitty bits out that everyone else thinks are good bits for some reason. If it's not on the OST, it's not worth existing!

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Most of my "worst OST decisions" are just "I love this piece and wish it was on the OST! But it wasn't!"

 

Otherwise, I have only one qualm with an OST.  It's on Kingdom of the Crystal Skull.  Bet you can guess.

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2 minutes ago, Thor said:

To be honest, I've never been bothered with socalled microedits. Most of the time, they've been used to create a better musical flow within certain tracks.

 

He just wants to get rid of the crappy bits that should never have been written.

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I'll never understand why he swapped around the two cues that make up TRAPPED LOVERS.

 

 

 

43 minutes ago, Muad'Dib said:

Stop liking Thor's posts, people! Wake up!

 

D I G Y O U R S E L F O U T O F T H E S H I T

 

I like Thor's posts, and that's all I have to say on the matter :)

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15 minutes ago, TheGreyPilgrim said:

 

This is your shiny gold OST.  Two coats, guaranteed.  Shovel your way out of the complete score, and into the abridged album presentation.  $29.99, that's right!  Only $29.99.  Plus shipping.

 

This is the best post in a long time. Like our very own Ep8.

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5 hours ago, Thor said:

I can't think of a single JW-produced OST that has frustrated me. Quite the contrary, they've all been masterfully presented. Now the expansions, on the other hand....

 

Oh please! Even you know deep down that some OSTs are half filler! Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull is a great example.

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4 hours ago, MrScratch said:

The ROTJ OST is awful.  Even given that JW was given one LP to work with instead of two, it's bad.  So little of the music from the actual movie is on it and a lot of highlights from the score are absent. 

 

I've once make the assumption that many key cues where left of the album intentionnally, to make a "spoiler-free" tracklisting.

 

ROTJ was a high anticipated movie at the time!

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5 minutes ago, Ricard said:

 

Most JW-produced OST albums have frustrated me. All of them should have been presented complete and chronological since day one.

 

It never bothered me, except for the Star Wars trilogy, because I know the movie very well. It's better for me to hear the soundtracks in chronological order. It's the only movies where while I hear the music, I really "see" the images in my head too.

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28 minutes ago, Alex said:

The Peter Pettigrew harpsichord "theme" not being on the POA album also struck me as weird considering its use in the film. I don't think it is even hinted at.

 

It's hinted at very, very softly in the Knight Bus track, when Harry first learns about who Black is. About 2:10 in on harpsichord. But beyond that it's completely absent. Come to think of it, the harpsichord in general doesn't get much of a spotlight on the soundtrack, does it? I don't feel like it's anywhere near as prominent as it is in the film.

 

 

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There are definitely OST album changes and edits that, to me, really do enhance the listening experience.

Those are the ones I really don't mind being replicated on a complete release.

Mainly in thinking there of short tracks that fit well together in a musical way or tracks that sound here being swapped around.

 

But then there are those other choices.

Specifically the microedits mentioned and the choice of tracks.

Sometimes those really don't make a luck of sense to me.

 

I wonder if it is possible to make an expanded release that truly has all the highlights, but joins tracks together where it enhances the listening experience while maintaining a mostly chronological order.

That's quite a juggling act and it's never going to be a win for everyone.

But at least The Force Awakens managed to get pretty close.

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4 hours ago, crumbs said:

Was there a reason the TOD OST was kept so short, just as ROTJ? Commercial reasons in the early/mid 80s?

 

 

 

A LP could only hold around 40 minutes

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7 hours ago, Bespin said:

 

I've once make the assumption that many key cues where left of the album intentionnally, to make a "spoiler-free" tracklisting.

 

ROTJ was a high anticipated movie at the time!

 

They could have used alternate titles instead?

 

7 hours ago, Ricard said:

 

Most JW-produced OST albums have frustrated me. All of them should have been presented complete and chronological since day one.

 

That would have made for some thick and expensive multi-disc vinyl record sets back in the day. Would have have been economical?

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1 minute ago, Manakin Skywalker said:

I think the biggest mistake, not just from Williams, but all film companies, is the fact that they only release single disc albums. I mean, can't they afford just one more disc? Two discs could include just about every cue from a film. I hate the people (some of them are here) that say "oh well then it's not as good of a listening experience". That's a stupid excuse. There's no significance of leaving out music other than for a greedy corporation to save a few bucks on an extra CD.

 

No really, sometimes Complete and Chronological presentations drag. So the composer would like to correct the pacing by shortening it. Often this means sacrificing cues to achieve this result. The composer is not a fanboy for his own music like you might be, and therefore doesn't demand for everything he's composed to be commercially available.

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3 minutes ago, Manakin Skywalker said:

If I were a composer and had the option, I'd release everything I wrote on release. If some fans (a very microscopic amount I would imagine) want less music, then they have the option to edit their own version of the score. We shouldn't have to miss out on a ton of music just because some ADHD patients with a tiny attention span want less music for some bizarre reason.

 

It's not really about wanting less music, it's about the composer's desire to artistically create a musical journey that's timed and paced to his own specifications, without the film dictating his decisions. Sometimes that means axing music that he feels doesn't contribute to that particular musical experience he's going for. It's usually the last opportunity for the composer to repurpose his score for another medium.

 

Often some of these newer scores where every cue is released leads to some tedious experiences, rather like some Brian Tyler scores that could have been significantly edited down to make for a more musically satisfying experience. And his scores aren't special enough to warrant such lengthy releases anyway!

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This is an issue I'm somewhat torn on.  

 

While I don't at all get Thor's extraordinarily dogmatic angle, I do very much believe that some - most? - scores just don't play very well in complete format.  After all, this is music written for picture, and that is its native context.  Honestly, there are few scores that I listen to all the way through, whether complete release or curated album, so this affects what I value here.

 

I understand that some film score albums are put together with great artistry, but some are not.  I can't really think of many, if any, instances where even a truncated album presentation greatly benefitted from having any music out of chronological order, though.  So proper order, at least, is almost always desirable regardless of if material is cut or not.

 

I well understand that sometimes great, interesting musical moments are left off of initial releases.  The idea of multiple releases is inherently silly, so would the ideal be that all scores are always just released in complete, ordered format?  I can accept that.  I don't really feel that the "album experience" that would be nixed with this approach is much to be torn up over, especially since it can be achieved by the listener on their own terms if need be.  

 

Except in the case of Zimmer.  He puts together fantastic albums that are indeed different enough to warrant existing alongside the complete scores.  I don't want them to go anywhere.  As for the rest, I say just put it all out there and let the listeners sort it out as their hearts desire.

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1 minute ago, TheGreyPilgrim said:

I don't really feel that the "album experience" that would be nixed with this approach is much to be torn up over, especially since it can be achieved by the listener on their own terms if need be.  

 

That would be like a painter giving you his most recent unfinished work and telling you "here, you finish it yourself".

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Eh, maybe.  Maybe I'm too dogmatic myself here, but I do think a film score is a film score, and that it isn't incumbent on the composer to present it in some album friendly setting.  They certainly can, but to me it's gravy I guess.  

 

Like I said, I rarely listen to scores fully as a straight listening experience anyway, unless it's in the film.  I listen to individual cues or sections, so it's just not a big deal for me to have it all play through nicely.  When they do, though, I take advantage.  Zimmer and Wintory do this well and I've listened to some from both today.

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