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John Williams's most transcending/sophisticated harmonies?


karelm

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Ooh la la, so many choices. This is something I think about quite a bit! I definitely agree with you that his sense of harmonic richness gives his work a depth that looks you straight in the eye and says, "This is for real".  For Empire Strikes Back, my harmonic money shot is here from 2:06 to 3:14

 

 

Special mention for that chord around 3:04, which also shows WIlliams' skill for layering really slick elements that both conform to and enhance/expand the underlying harmonies.

 

For now I'll just say one more from his film work (starting at the string elegy around 1:13)

 

 

I remember listening to this piece on YouTube for the first time several years ago, listening to the horn solo thinking, "Okay, this is cute I guess. A nice little John Williams solemn horn solo, nothing super far-out." Then that initial string chord came in...my eyes bulged at the computer screen, my head slowly shaking from side to side: "No way...no way, John Williams...." Ultimately it was very good my eyes were so wide, so they had room to pour out all that water. :P  ...  ...  ...   :unsure:

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12 hours ago, karelm said:

John Williams is a wonderful melodist who is so full of great and iconic tunes.  Also important is his harmonic language.  I don't know if any film composer working today with a more sophisticated harmonic skill set and it is arguable JW's harmonic vocabulary is significant not just in terms of current composers but all film composers ever.  What are examples where you would consider his still, talent, craftsmanship, and genius are most evident in terms of harmony or harmonic progression (one chord to the next)?

 

For me, some of my all time favorite harmonies are heard in the last act of Empire Strikes Back.  Such as this:

 

Where we have heroic melodies juxtaposed with very unstable/precarious harmonies.  The unease is so well captured here.  That one "off note" in the chord so much changes the feel of the tension to me.  Also notice the chord progressions against the pedal tone that starts at 5:12.  Is this despair?  Hope?  Heroism?  Mysticism?  Fear?  Mythology?  It is all of that in just a few seconds. 

 

Then more here:

 

It would be so easy for a composer to omit the 2nd, 4th, 6th, or 7th note that adds so much more sense of drama to these few seconds and also not knowing how to dramatically use these notes (where in there register will affect the feel).  Jazz uses 6th and 7th notes frequently but will perhaps not double that note (forcing an emphasis) or will place them in mid register (again blending the impact).  I really believe this sophisticated use of harmony and not melody is what makes JW stand apart from imitators.  Meanwhile, he's a freaking brilliant melodist, structuralist, dramatist, etc. 

 

What are other examples of his harmonic chops par excellence?

 

 

I completely relate. One of my favourite moments that was not mentioned yet is this, from 0:41 to 1:25,

 

 

Totally insane command of harmony and orchestration. And I agree that his harmonic "ear" is his most outstanding talent.

 

 

 

 

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11 hours ago, Nick Parker said:

 

 

 

I remember listening to this piece on YouTube for the first time several years ago, listening to the horn solo thinking, "Okay, this is cute I guess. A nice little John Williams solemn horn solo, nothing super far-out." Then that initial string chord came in...my eyes bulged at the computer screen, my head slowly shaking from side to side: "No way...no way, John Williams...." Ultimately it was very good my eyes were so wide, so they had room to pour out all that water. :P  ...  ...  ...   :unsure:

Totally agree on this!

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12 hours ago, Nick Parker said:

Ooh la la, so many choices. This is something I think about quite a bit! I definitely agree with you that his sense of harmonic richness gives his work a depth that looks you straight in the eye and says, "This is for real".  For Empire Strikes Back, my harmonic money shot is here from 2:06 to 3:14

 

 

Special mention for that chord around 3:04, which also shows WIlliams' skill for layering really slick elements that both conform to and enhance/expand the underlying harmonies.

 

For now I'll just say one more from his film work (starting at the string elegy around 1:13)

 

 

I remember listening to this piece on YouTube for the first time several years ago, listening to the horn solo thinking, "Okay, this is cute I guess. A nice little John Williams solemn horn solo, nothing super far-out." Then that initial string chord came in...my eyes bulged at the computer screen, my head slowly shaking from side to side: "No way...no way, John Williams...." Ultimately it was very good my eyes were so wide, so they had room to pour out all that water. :P  ...  ...  ...   :unsure:

There's nothing to compare to Arlington!!!

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As you may know, I agree that JW's harmonic command is noteworthy on a general musical and theoretical scale, beyond just cinema music, because of its fluent merging of jazz harmonies and voicings with both classical roots and some pop tendencies as well.  It's a fantastic, and I think historically significant, melange that has yielded some delicious moments.  Most of my favorites are in the concert music.  Lately, the harp concerto is revealing its harmonic secrets to me, and they're extraterrestrial.  

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16 hours ago, Nick Parker said:

Ooh la la, so many choices. This is something I think about quite a bit! I definitely agree with you that his sense of harmonic richness gives his work a depth that looks you straight in the eye and says, "This is for real".  For Empire Strikes Back, my harmonic money shot is here from 2:06 to 3:14

 

 

Special mention for that chord around 3:04, which also shows WIlliams' skill for layering really slick elements that both conform to and enhance/expand the underlying harmonies.

 

 

Crap, I  don't think I linked it properly, I meant this: 

 

 

14 minutes ago, TheGreyPilgrim said:

Lately, the harp concerto is revealing its harmonic secrets to me, and they're extraterrestrial.

Funny you say that, it's one of my favorites and I always thought of it as a cute little niece to Close Encounters.

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Arlington is too overwrought for my tastes.

 

 

As the confounded scientists and military personnel document the names of the missing veterans ("They haven't even aged. Einstein was right" "Einstein was probably one of them."), the returnees take the first steps on terra firma in an unearthly daze. Simultaneously relieved to be home and quietly horrified by their predicament, their loved one's having aged 32+ years since the moment in time of their abduction.  It's this frisson of contradictory emotion that Williams captures so perfectly, and he does it by juxtaposing widely spaced D Dorian chords (these are sometimes voiced as multi-octave sus chords, a sonority Williams has attributed to big band arranger Claude Thornhill),  with clashing harp scales, the combined effect being polytonality.

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, TheGreyPilgrim said:

As you may know, I agree that JW's harmonic command is noteworthy on a general musical and theoretical scale, beyond just cinema music, because of its fluent merging of jazz harmonies and voicings with both classical roots and some pop tendencies as well.  It's a fantastic, and I think historically significant, melange that has yielded some delicious moments.  Most of my favorites are in the concert music.  Lately, the harp concerto is revealing its harmonic secrets to me, and they're extraterrestrial.  

 

Good point.  Any specific moments of the harp concerto that come to mind?  I like the ending chord progressions of the violin concerto very much:

 

2 hours ago, Nick Parker said:

Crap, I  don't think I linked it properly, I meant this: 

 

 

Ahh, I totally agree with you.  I will tell you as a kid in 1980 who saw this with a sold out theater who was just stunned by the unfolding drama, the music was still so unforgettable at supporting the drama and the anguish of the scene.  Frankly, it was sort of shocking how dark the film was compared to ANH and I think the harmonic complexity is a big part of the reason why. 

54 minutes ago, Blanche Hudson said:

Arlington is too overwrought for my tastes.

 

 

I have no evidence to support this, but it is my opinion that Arlington is deeply personal to Williams. Perhaps his own feelings of the JFK loss rather than film score.  What we have on the OST goes way beyond what is in the film and frankly stands alone without the need for the visuals. 

 

In my opinion, the ending sequence of CEOTTK is some of the finest and most sophisticated film music ever written.  I haven't seen the film in a long while until the 40th anniversary showing a few weeks ago where it was played in the same theater that premiered it (arclight Hollywood).  There is practically no useful dialog at the end.  The visuals (which I assume didn't exist when JW wrote the score since it too is post production) and the music are nearly 100% the story teller.  This is JW's most transformative score I imagine but one of the greatest final sequences I have ever heard still.  So rich, complex, simple, powerful, imaginative, hopeful...etc.

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1 hour ago, Blanche Hudson said:

Arlington is too overwrought for my tastes.

 

JFK in general is kind of overwrought, that's what makes it so outstanding. It decides whether a scene is sad, scary, suspenseful, emotional or whatever... From "Motorcade" to "Garison's Obsession" to "Garison Family Theme" to "Arlington" there is just every mood music can indicate in the score. Except JFK, I have never seen a movie whose score had THAT much impact on the film! Just remember the end scene: They're basically just talking at the court and John Williams is freaking out in the background! - as we do because of him.

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2 hours ago, karelm said:

 

Any specific moments of the harp concerto that come to mind? 

 

Mostly the first movement.  The delicate, chamber like accompaniments have this quasi Ligeti/Takemitsu character that feel floaty and otherworldly but still directed in some vaguely tonal manner.  Strange chords that move in a not completely strange way.  I can definitely see the relationship to some of CE3K, like that moment Sharky cited.

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17 minutes ago, TheGreyPilgrim said:

 

Mostly the first movement.  The delicate, chamber like accompaniments have this quasi Ligeti/Takemitsu character that feel floaty and otherworldly but still directed in some vaguely tonal manner

 

Truly marvelous.  It's like Williams' take on Bartok's "night music" concept and I think it's one of the most "magical" pieces he's ever composed.  Magical in the sense of feeling almost out-of-body.  Like not Harry Potter, but like he's exposed something beyond the material world.

 

Like what the strings are doing here

 

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In honor of the upcoming E.T. release, I'll suggest the film's opening chord, a reduction of which shown in the box below. While this is a chord of only four different notes, I'd say it still qualifies as a sophisticated harmony. The top three notes of the box make up a major chord - there's certainly nothing special about that. But that major chord is pitted against a bass of C naturals, which are entirely foreign to the chord. In such a low register, these C naturals demand to be heard as something stable. In other words, even though it totally disagrees with the major chord above it, the fact that it's in the deep bass makes it sound like an eerie tonic, or home base if you will, rather than a dissonance.

 

At the same time, the E.T. motif, which appears overtop the chord in the example, has already sounded once all alone and clearly makes A the tonic. So once the chord enters, we have a tug-of-war between two different tonics - A and C. The C is so unexpected that is sounds like it's literally "from another world" and the conflict brings an immediate sense of tension and mystery to the scene.

 

Interestingly, the original score shows that the chord was to enter simultaneously with the second statement of the E.T. motif, where the melody would have agreed with the major chord. The soundtrack and film, however, have it enter three beats later, on the motif's second bar. What this does is adds even more of a clash in the harmony since the second bar gives us notes that are not part of the A major chord, but are from the A Lydian scale (Lydian scales are often used to depict wonder, magic, and otherworldly qualities in film). The overall effect is this wonderful concoction of innocence, otherworldliness, mystery, fear, and tension that draws us right into the film before we've even laid eyes on the aliens or their ship.


ET_02_-_Far_from_Home_01_chord.png

 

 

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30 minutes ago, Disco Stu said:

but like he's exposed something beyond the material world.

 

Perfect way of putting it.  And I think he only improves on what those older composers I mentioned were capable of.  Refining the language and combining it with other elements to enhance that sense of ambiguity and vagueness.  Again, the different things that seem to have gone into the synthesis of Williams' harmonic dialect is really significant.  While something like Ligeti's Atmospheres is of course quite unearthly, I would like to believe that it was only the tip of the iceberg as far as what "strangeness" in music can achieve. 

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On 9/18/2017 at 0:49 AM, Nick Parker said:

Ooh la la, so many choices. This is something I think about quite a bit! I definitely agree with you that his sense of harmonic richness gives his work a depth that looks you straight in the eye and says, "This is for real".  For Empire Strikes Back, my harmonic money shot is here from 2:06 to 3:14

 

 

Special mention for that chord around 3:04, which also shows WIlliams' skill for layering really slick elements that both conform to and enhance/expand the underlying harmonies.

 

For now I'll just say one more from his film work (starting at the string elegy around 1:13)

 

 

I remember listening to this piece on YouTube for the first time several years ago, listening to the horn solo thinking, "Okay, this is cute I guess. A nice little John Williams solemn horn solo, nothing super far-out." Then that initial string chord came in...my eyes bulged at the computer screen, my head slowly shaking from side to side: "No way...no way, John Williams...." Ultimately it was very good my eyes were so wide, so they had room to pour out all that water. :P  ...  ...  ...   :unsure:

 

I think you linked the wrong vid? You mentioned 2:06-3:14 but the vid you linked is 0:22 long.

 

EDIT: Never mind.

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A favorite of mine is the bit starting at 2:50. Some interesting harmonies underlying, especially the last chord before the theme repeats (2:56-ish). Is it  just me or is there someone (trombone?) playing the major 7th in there? Feels jazzy. Either way, it's impressive to hear so much chordal motion under a simple theme; virtually every beat has a shift.

 

 

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7 hours ago, Brundlefly said:

Examples

 

e.g. all Sergio Leone pictures but seriously: JFK doesn't have a very present or integral score compared to even other 90's movies (Oliver Stone is after all a very eclectic director).  

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On 19-9-2017 at 9:22 PM, curlytoot said:

A favorite of mine is the bit starting at 2:50. Some interesting harmonies underlying, especially the last chord before the theme repeats (2:56-ish). Is it  just me or is there someone (trombone?) playing the major 7th in there? Feels jazzy. Either way, it's impressive to hear so much chordal motion under a simple theme; virtually every beat has a shift.

 

 

 

Great passage!

 

Naamloos.jpg

 

The analysis is prone to be erroneous - the transcription is 100% correct though.

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23 hours ago, curlytoot said:

A favorite of mine is the bit starting at 2:50. Some interesting harmonies underlying, especially the last chord before the theme repeats (2:56-ish). Is it  just me or is there someone (trombone?) playing the major 7th in there? Feels jazzy. Either way, it's impressive to hear so much chordal motion under a simple theme; virtually every beat has a shift.

 

 

 

:up::up::up:

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On 19/9/2017 at 4:49 AM, Ludwig said:

In honor of the upcoming E.T. release, I'll suggest the film's opening chord, a reduction of which shown in the box below. While this is a chord of only four different notes, I'd say it still qualifies as a sophisticated harmony. The top three notes of the box make up a major chord - there's certainly nothing special about that. But that major chord is pitted against a bass of C naturals, which are entirely foreign to the chord. In such a low register, these C naturals demand to be heard as something stable. In other words, even though it totally disagrees with the major chord above it, the fact that it's in the deep bass makes it sound like an eerie tonic, or home base if you will, rather than a dissonance.

 

At the same time, the E.T. motif, which appears overtop the chord in the example, has already sounded once all alone and clearly makes A the tonic. So once the chord enters, we have a tug-of-war between two different tonics - A and C. The C is so unexpected that is sounds like it's literally "from another world" and the conflict brings an immediate sense of tension and mystery to the scene.

 

This is a very important example. Also, it's impressive how it is realized with very simple means (the difficult thing, as always, is to get the right idea!). The ear tends to recognize the major chord in the high register, just because all those notes are close together, and to perceive the minor third (C natural) in the bass as a sort of perturbation, something that is not completely right, which gives that feeling of mistery and instability. Maybe it could be called an "altered first inversion chord". 

 

Also notable is the variation taking place in the cue called "The First Meeting". The chord appears transposed one semitone down, so there is a chord of A-flat major in the high register, while the basses play B natural (enharmonic of C flat). In this case, however, violas complete the B major chord by playing D# and F#. So, in this case, it is a superposition of B major and A flat major, satisfying the definition of a polytonal chord. 

 

E.T. is full of impressive harmonies, one could just go through every bar and find something worthy of attention.  

 

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34 minutes ago, Score said:

 

This is a very important example. Also, it's impressive how it is realized with very simple means (the difficult thing, as always, is to get the right idea!). The ear tends to recognize the major chord in the high register, just because all those notes are close together, and to perceive the minor third (C natural) in the bass as a sort of perturbation, something that is not completely right, which gives that feeling of mistery and instability. Maybe it could be called an "altered first inversion chord". 

 

Also notable is the variation taking place in the cue called "The First Meeting". The chord appears transposed one semitone down, so there is a chord of A-flat major in the high register, while the basses play B natural (enharmonic of C flat). In this case, however, violas complete the B major chord by playing D# and F#. So, in this case, it is a superposition of B major and A flat major, satisfying the definition of a polytonal chord. 

 

There's a clip somewhere of JW composing ESB and you can see him playing triads in the right hand and trying different bass notes in the left, trying to get the sound right. These sorts of slash chords are very good at conveying particular moods whilst not overloading the audience with obscure musical techniques. If you listen to JW a lot you can pick up on some recurring patterns. For instance after playing around on the piano a bit I came up with the following progression: Db/C, E/G, G/Eb, Fm/B, which to my ears sounds like something Williams might use, but that's just one of a huge array of possibilities. The non-harmonic bass notes are what give JW's harmony that extra "spice".

 

 

And now...how's this for some "sophisticated" harmony? :D 

 

 

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On 9/19/2017 at 0:22 PM, curlytoot said:

A favorite of mine is the bit starting at 2:50. Some interesting harmonies underlying, especially the last chord before the theme repeats (2:56-ish). Is it  just me or is there someone (trombone?) playing the major 7th in there? Feels jazzy. Either way, it's impressive to hear so much chordal motion under a simple theme; virtually every beat has a shift.

 

 

 

Great call!  I loved the queue but forgot why!  Vintage JW.

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21 hours ago, publicist said:

 

e.g. all Sergio Leone pictures but seriously: JFK doesn't have a very present or integral score compared to even other 90's movies (Oliver Stone is after all a very eclectic director).  

I'm not talking about that kind of music like in Leone movies. The score in JFK is not given much space to unfold and to become the center of attention. It's the unconsious effect I was refering to. It underscores every dialogue different. There is a lot of just dialogue scenes and the music shows you how to feel about its content, it evaluates, it leads you through the scene, helps you to understand and it makes the film remain gripping. I have never seen another movie that uses the score to that extend.

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20 hours ago, Loert said:

 

There's a clip somewhere of JW composing ESB and you can see him playing triads in the right hand and trying different bass notes in the left, trying to get the sound right. These sorts of slash chords are very good at conveying particular moods whilst not overloading the audience with obscure musical techniques. If you listen to JW a lot you can pick up on some recurring patterns. For instance after playing around on the piano a bit I came up with the following progression: Db/C, E/G, G/Eb, Fm/B, which to my ears sounds like something Williams might use, but that's just one of a huge array of possibilities. The non-harmonic bass notes are what give JW's harmony that extra "spice".

 

 

 

It's more or less the inverse process of what is usually thaught in beginning music theory classes, when they give you a bass line and you have to decide what to put on top of it, respecting all the rules. Here he starts from the upper part and then figures out the bass! 

 

Another nice example of brilliant harmonic choice: the end of the cue "The Emperor's Death" from ROTJ. That cue is a masterpiece in its entirety, but I find curious that the ending is a superposition of a chord of E major and a (higher) chord of G major. So, again polytonality, but it also sounds as the typical jazz chord E7/9+, with the clash of G# and G natural. Adding to the jazz feeling, a pizzicato cello plucks B, then E notes. "Yeah, the Emperor is dead, angel baby, and I scored it super-cool"!

 

  

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21 hours ago, publicist said:

That creaky cut and paste job? Well, to each his own.

The film is quite the same, cut and paste. The music fits as it is used. Flashback, a few seconds of music, flashback ends, music cutoff. And what does it matter regarding the effect of the music whether it's cut and pasted or not?

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That it's just another part of source music. As such i found it rather broad - like Stone's editing - and not particularly helpful, or better , not adding much. If it does, it's solely in the broad strokes of the big americana theme (nothing of this compares to the compassionate and concise commentary of BOTF or even the less well-liked but psychological much more astute Nixon).

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