Right now, who are your Top 5 film composers?

[Koray Savas 2,251]

It is possible to be nice to some people and not nice to others...

 

I’m sure Hitler had a best friend. “He’s a nice guy!” he would always say! “People never met him IRL!”

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

Did you just compare James Horner to Hitler? Fuck you!

[Naïve Old Fart 9,526]

We need breeding room.

[Nick1Ø66 4,714]

 

4 hours ago, Thor said:

 

You really have no right to call someone 'not nice' without ever actually having met said person. Same with members on a messageboard, really. I've seen some despicable internet personalities over the years (there is one, in particular, on FSM right now), but I really don't know how that person is IRL.

 

 

What are you talking about? Crikey you can come out with some rubbish sometimes. Of course we have the "right". That's absurd. We can call people "not nice"  or "nice" based on the behaviour we see from them...whether in person or online. The way a person acts online is no less reflective as to who that person is than how they are in person. They're both facets of the same personality, manifested in different situations. And anyway, you've drawn your own conclusions about Rosenmann based on what you've read about him and what's he's said...i.e. you said he's "full of himself", a conclusion you've drawn solely based on comments you've read from him. 

 

And in any event, whether we think someone is nice is a largely subjective opinion. Someone can be nice to me but a rude SOB to someone else. Is that person "nice"?

 

And finally, to be blunt Thor, your limited interaction with Horner, whatever it was, doesn't exactly make you an expert on his character.  All you can speak to is how he acted to and around you at that time.

[Thor 7,504]

16 minutes ago, Nick1066 said:

And finally, to be blunt Thor, your limited interaction with Horner, whatever it was, doesn't exactly make you an expert on his character.  All you can speak to is how he acted to and around you at that time.

 

True, but it's better than second-hand information about work situations and so on. Besides, I could easily find just as many reports from people close to him, or in a professional relationship to him, saying how nice he is. Saying that Rosenman was full of himself is easy just by reading his interviews. They speak for themselves. "Nice" is something else altogether, and requires a personal connection.

[karelm 2,913]

5 hours ago, Thor said:

 

Well, I've never worked with Horner, but I've spent some time with him -- both during my interview and later in the evening (including some of his closest). So at least I have some first-hand experience rather than second-hand stories or urban legends to go on when assessing his "niceness". Again, I separate strongly between this very personal trait and being honest in interviews or uncompromising in work situations. Apples and oranges. James Horner was a nice guy, period. 

 

You really have no right to call someone 'not nice' without ever actually having met said person. Same with members on a messageboard, really. I've seen some despicable internet personalities over the years (there is one, in particular, on FSM right now), but I really don't know how that person is IRL.

 

I do think he mellowed out over the years and frankly to me, it doesn't bother me so much.  The same is said for Bernard Herrmann, he was just not known to be a pleasant person but he never seemed to mellow out.  He is a wonderful and extremely imaginative composer so I do think it is important to separate judgement on the man and the music.  Some people can be very pleasant in social settings and very difficult in professional settings.  I have no doubt Horner was very pleasant in your experience. 

 

I also think we gain much more insight of a person from other people who knew them over a range of time and circumstances than our few minutes or hours with them so I disagree with you on that.  You actually get a glimpse of who they really are from the experiences of those who've known them over time in many circumstances you (and I) are not privy to.  Thor do you know the background of "Testimony, the memoirs of Dmitri Shostakovich" by Solomon Volkov?  Solomon Volkov spent "some time" with the major Soviet composer, Shostakovich, in his last year.  A few years after Shostakovich died, this memoir was published and was quite shocking in the West because it claimed the famous composer was a secret dissident and the subtext of his "popular" works was anti-soviet.  So this was very popular and influential interpretation of Shostakovich's music.  The problem is, the people who knew Shostakovich (his friends, colleagues, performers, students, family) said this was not an accurate interpretation of who the man was.  Today most people discard Testimony for a variety of reasons but at best, scholars would not reference it in dealing with the true analysis of who this man was.  He was actually much more complicated than the version in Testimony.  My point is, what we know of the man has little to do with the authors direct experience with him and far more to do with the second hand experience from others because that is where a broader consensus emerges of who he really was and what he was like.

[Nick1Ø66 4,714]

2 hours ago, Thor said:

 

True, but it's better than second-hand information about work situations and so on. Besides, I could easily find just as many reports from people close to him, or in a professional relationship to him, saying how nice he is. Saying that Rosenman was full of himself is easy just by reading his interviews. They speak for themselves. "Nice" is something else altogether, and requires a personal connection.

 

 

Oh come on. I think even you must know what you're saying now doesn't make any sense.  We judge whether a  person is "nice" or "not nice" based on our subjective perception of all or some aspects of their personality...including whether they're "full of themselves" or publicly disparage their colleagues.   Yes, it's easy to say that Rosenmann is full of himself based on what you've read...but maybe his friends and family will tell you he's not that way "IRL" at all. Does that make your perception of him "wrong"? Of course not. You've basing your opinion on what you know about him.

 

Similarly, one could also conclude that Horner was a not-nice SOB based purely on his comments about other composers...even if his friends and family might tell you differently. There's zero difference between someone drawing conclusions about Rosenmann based on his public comments vs. someone else doing the same with Horner.   You're just doubling down on rubbish.

 

Finally, most people aren't nice or mean. They can be both or either depending on the situation. Certainly that's true for both Rosenmann, Horner, you and I.  

 

 

 

 

 

[Thor 7,504]

I just think the word 'nice' is completely out-of-place in this context. I maintain that it's something that requires a personal connection to that person, in order to assess. One can recognize certain personality traits in interviews and so (perhaps even second-hand reports, even though they always have to be taken with a pinch of salt), but that's about it.

 

Quote

 There's zero difference between someone drawing conclusions about Rosenmann based on his public comments vs. someone else doing the same with Horner. 

 

There's all the difference in the world. I've never read any interviews with Horner where he's appeared "not nice"'. Brutal honesty in some cases, yes, but that's it. Similarly, I've not read any interviews with Rosenman where he's appeared "not nice" either. Only a sense of "megalomania". Again, 'nice' (or 'not nice') is a word that has zero place in this kind of context. If there's any 'rubbish' in this discussion, it's the use of that word.

[Brónach 1,302]

On 23/9/2017 at 3:05 PM, Josh500 said:

 

Being a nice person is overrated these days. You don't get anything or anywhere in life for being "nice." You don't get respect from other guys, and you don't get the hot girls.

 

This is hilarious to read.

[mrbellamy 6,286]

3 hours ago, Koray Savas said:

It is possible to be nice to some people and not nice to others...

 

I’m sure Hitler had a best friend. “He’s a nice guy!” he would always say! “People never met him IRL!”

 

Reminds me of Norm Macdonald's bit on Hitler's dog.

 

"Dogs don't judge. We judge, our love comes with caveats. There's no such thing as unconditional love with human beings. But dogs, they don't care. Hitler had a dog, now you think of that. I'm no fan of Hitler. I never liked him. I didn't like him before it was cool not to like him. But there was a dog in history who loved Hitler more than anyone! He would wake up in the morning, you know, "where's Hitler?!" And Göring or something would go "He's not here, he's doing some evil stuff. I've explained to you, he does most of his time doing evil stuff, you can't see him that often." And the dog goes, "Okay, I know....listen, I love you, I love Mengele, I love everyone, all you guys are the greatest! But Hitler is the greatest man who's ever lived!" 

[Nick1Ø66 4,714]

1 hour ago, Thor said:

I just think the word 'nice' is completely out-of-place in this context. I maintain that it's something that requires a personal connection to that person, in order to assess. One can recognize certain personality traits in interviews and so (perhaps even second-hand reports, even though they always have to be taken with a pinch of salt), but that's about it.

 

 

There's all the difference in the world. I've never read any interviews with Horner where he's appeared "not nice"'. Brutal honesty in some cases, yes, but that's it. Similarly, I've not read any interviews with Rosenman where he's appeared "not nice" either. Only a sense of "megalomania". Again, 'nice' (or 'not nice') is a word that has zero place in this kind of context. If there's any 'rubbish' in this discussion, it's the use of that word.

 

Oh crikey Thor, what are you talking about? I could say that you're pedantic and incredibly obtuse, and I'd be being brutally honest. But saying so certainly wouldn't be "nice", so I wouldn't do that.

 

People refrain from being "brutally honest" all the time because such honesty isn't always nice.  You may not realise this,  Thor, but insulting your colleagues, publicly, (especially in the case of Yared), isn't "nice".  

[Marian Schedenig 8,193]

I'm shocked, SHOCKED, that Poledouris hasn't been mentioned once. Here's my best top 5 I can think of right now:

 

Williams, Goldsmith

Doyle, Korngold, Poledouris

 

Although there are a lot more candidates for the last three spots, like Goldenthal, or even Murray Gold, who has gotten a lot of playtime for me a while ago. But Williams and Goldsmith are pretty much fixed forever on top of the list.

On 21/09/2017 at 3:55 PM, Josh500 said:

Okay, quick, everybody that mentioned Michael Giacchino! 

 

Which are your Top 3 scores by him?! I'll listen to these in the next few days and then decide whether I'll start collecting Giacchino! 

 

He's not in my top 5, but here's my list, in no particular order:

 

Tomorrowland

MI Ghost Protocol

Rogue One (yes)

 

(If we count TV series, Alias and Lost would also be contenders)

On 22/09/2017 at 0:19 PM, Nick1066 said:

Poor Leonard Rosenman.

 

Has he made anyone's list? Even the Top 10?

 

I'm a huge fan of his LOTR, and I like his Trek score a lot, but his music is so often so similar that not much else has stood out with a lasting impression.

On 23/09/2017 at 3:05 PM, Josh500 said:

Being a nice person is overrated these days. You don't get anything or anywhere in life for being "nice." You don't get respect from other guys, and you don't get the hot girls.

 

Personally I'm only nice to my girlfriend, family, and close friends. To everybody else I'm one mean son of a gun.

 

 

If that's a widespread mentality, recent political tendencies are not surprising. I'm nice to people because I want people to be nice to people, not to get any specific personal advantage...

[Wojo 2,453]

Zimmer 

Giacchino 

Badelt

Djawadi 

Daft Punk 

Woot Woot Woot! 

[Brónach 1,302]

38 minutes ago, Marian Schedenig said:

I'm shocked, SHOCKED, that Poledouris hasn't been mentioned once. Here's my best top 5 I can think of right now:

 

I don't know how to make a list, but he'd be there

[Thor 7,504]

1 hour ago, Nick1066 said:

People refrain from being "brutally honest" all the time because such honesty isn't always nice.  You may not realise this,  Thor, but insulting your colleagues, publicly, (especially in the case of Yared), isn't "nice".  

 

That's up to interpretation. When Horner dissed Malick, for example, it's more a reflection of his own limitation as a very "Hollywood-centric" person who failed to see the director's more alternative approach to cinema. And it's an example of being (IMO refreshingly) honest in an industry where everybody likes to kiss ass. It really has nothing to do with being nice or not.

 

Also, this has nothing to do with being pedantic. It's about semantics, and the proper use of words. Maybe we interpret 'nice' differently, but I think it's a human property that requires some form of closeness (whether personal or professional) to the person in question in order to assess properly. It's VERY different from the kind of more specific personality traits we can read out of interviews and such -- for example that Bernard Herrmann had a temper, that Williams is humble, that Horner often was brutally honest, that Rosenman was a bit full of himself etc.

[Josh500 1,615]

1 hour ago, Marian Schedenig said:

If that's a widespread mentality, recent political tendencies are not surprising. I'm nice to people because I want people to be nice to people, not to get any specific personal advantage...

 

That's your way, and good for you if it works for you.

 

Now don't be an asshole and try to convince me yours is the only right way. Because that's exactly the problem we have with politics these days. Remember Hitler? I'm sure you do.

 

Many people just don't see the bigger picture....

 

[BloodBoal 7,538]

1 hour ago, Brónach said:

I don't know how to make a list, but he'd be there

 

Ditto.

[Josh500 1,615]

2 hours ago, Marian Schedenig said:

I'm shocked, SHOCKED, that Poledouris hasn't been mentioned once. Here's my best top 5 I can think of right now:

 

 

 

 

Which are your favourites from Basil Poledouris?

 

I have only one, The Hunt for Red October, and yes, this one's quite impressive! 

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

3 hours ago, Nick1066 said:

 

Oh crikey Thor, what are you talking about? I could say that you're pedantic and incredibly obtuse, and I'd be being brutally honest. But saying so certainly wouldn't be "nice", so I wouldn't do that.

 

People refrain from being "brutally honest" all the time because such honesty isn't always nice.  You may not realise this,  Thor, but insulting your colleagues, publicly, (especially in the case of Yared), isn't "nice".  

 

Forget it Nick. It's Thor. 

[Not Mr. Big 4,639]

Never much cared for Poledouris beyond his first Conan score and maybe Les Miserables. His themes are a bit predictable and the general "sound" is unpleasant to my ears (orchestrations, recording, performance, electronics)

[Brónach 1,302]

The overall sound is overly sweet to me. He excelled at that. Like my general reaction is "aaaaw".

[Marian Schedenig 8,193]

56 minutes ago, Josh500 said:

That's your way, and good for you if it works for you.

 

It works as well as it can in a world of people who think being nice to others is a weakness.

 

56 minutes ago, Josh500 said:

Now don't be an asshole and try to convince me yours is the only right way. Because that's exactly the problem we have with politics these days. Remember Hitler? I'm sure you do.

 

Many people just don't see the bigger picture....

 

In the big picture, Hitler's success was based on a huge number of people deciding that they have to live at the expense of others instead of being nice to people in general...

49 minutes ago, Josh500 said:

Which are your favourites from Basil Poledouris?

 

I have only one, The Hunt for Red October, and yes, this one's quite impressive! 

 

Red October was my first Poledouris, and selections from it are still favourites, although the score as a whole is a bit of a mixed bag with lots of not so interesting material (the extension also doesn't add much). Conan the Destroyer has a fantastic main theme, but hasn't (yet?) grabbed me as a whole.

 

Favourites would be Conan the Barbarian, Starship Troopers, Les Miserables, Wind and The Blue Lagoon. To a lesser extent Farewell to the King and Flesh+Blood.

 

Poledouris's big talent was seeing the lyrical opportunities in big action films and scoring that. Conan and Starship Troopers are both highlights in that regard.

 

I've never been a big fan of Robocop.

[Romão 2,274]

Poledouris would've made my Top 10

[Marian Schedenig 8,193]

What surprises me is that nobody mentioned him, even though I'm for sure not the biggest fan of Conan. (Although I am definitely a fan)

[Brundlefly 2,385]

I think there are different levels of composers, taking all skills into consideration, especially the compositional techniques:

 

1. Fully able to compose like classic composers + huge amount of musical new ideas and variety + knows how to make an orchestra ring powerful:

Williams, Goldsmith

 

2. Fully able to compose like classic composers, but not that much ideas and variety + knows how to make an orchestra ring powerful:

Morricone, Herrman, Davis, Bernstein

 

3. Mostly impressive composing technique + not completely aware of an orchestea's possibilities:

Shore, Silvestri, Poledouris, Kamen, Barry, Bacalov

 

4. Not always completely convincing, but partly impressive works + not always really focused on complex orchestra writing + partly full power of orchestra is not really reached:

Horner, Elfman, Howard, Powell, Badalamenti

 

5. Not really focused on complex orchestra writing + often lack of variety:

Zimmer, Badelt

 

6. Neither complex nor creative music:

a whole bunch of no-name composers, that are either forced to copy other composers or not able to compose well

 

7. Just bad and making the movie worse:

Randy Edelman

 

This would be an approximate categorization of mine, concerning the relevance in a purely musical way, orientated on classic, romantic, expressionistic and impressionistic music. Of course I've just picked a few examples for each category. Since I don't really know much bad composers, there are not really much categories for and examples of them. Therefore the difference between 1. and 4. is much smaller than between 4. and 7. Please don't kill me. What do you think?

[Disco Stu 15,495]

Heh, I have some nostalgic affection for a few Edelman scores of my childhood (The Mask, Angels in the Outfield, Kindergarten Cop).

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

17 minutes ago, Brundlefly said:

Please don't kill me. What do you think?

 

I think your rankings based on the conditions you use come across as little better than arbitrary, and such rankings overall are utterly pointless, frivolous, and add nothing positive to the experience, nor the discussion, of art, nor to the wider human endeavor.  These are all traits shared by my act of bothering to say any of this, but you asked.

[Fancyarcher 350]

1. John Williams

2. Ennio Morricone

3. Jerry Goldsmith

4. Bernard Herrmann 

5. John Barry

Doing a top five is hard though, plenty of other composers I'm a fan of, like Elfman, Bernstein, Horner, Silvestri, Poledouris, Mancini just to name a few. My list is ever-changing in terms of order. 

 

2 hours ago, Disco Stu said:

Heh, I have some nostalgic affection for a few Edelman scores of my childhood (The Mask, Angels in the Outfield, Kindergarten Cop).

 

I love his score for Dragon: The Bruce Lee Story. His music is so simplistic, often power anthemy, and often too cheerful for its own good, but it can work, and it can be very effective in giving me the right feelings too. 

[Josh500 1,615]

10 hours ago, Marian Schedenig said:

 

It works as well as it can in a world of people who think being nice to others is a weakness.

 

 

Who said it's a weakness? It's not. I said I am nice to to people that matter to me. And hopefully you are too.

 

But we don't live in a fantasy land, or this is not kindergarten. In reality, and particularly in our time, we live in a world where being "nice" will get you nowhere. If you want to achieve results, the opposite is oftentimes required. 

[Brundlefly 2,385]

4 hours ago, Fancyarcher said:

1. John Williams

2. Ennio Morricone

3. Jerry Goldsmith

4. Bernard Herrmann 

5. John Barry

Now, that's a great top 5 list!!!

[Josh500 1,615]

10 hours ago, Marian Schedenig said:

In the big picture, Hitler's success was based on a huge number of people deciding that they have to live at the expense of others instead of being nice to people in general...

 

People being not "nice" led to the Holocaust. That what you think? You're not serious, are you? That's maybe what a preschooler would believe and answer....

 

It's actually the opposite. People back then were too "nice" to speak up, stand up to authority, that's one reason why it happened. 

 

They always teach you the opposite, don't you know? You might want to look into what really happened back then!

10 hours ago, Marian Schedenig said:

Poledouris big talent was seeing the lyrical opportunities in big action films and scoring that. Conan and Starship Troopers are both highlights in that regard.

 

I've never been a big fan of Robocop.

 

I have to see Robocop yet, can't believe I haven't done so yet. Starship Troopers was awesome, I have to get that soundtrack. Conan doesn't particularly interest me.

[Brundlefly 2,385]

There is a crucial difference between being nice and being the "nice guy".

 

Does any of you know La Califfa by Ennio Morricone?

[Nick Parker 3,040]

38 minutes ago, Brundlefly said:

There is a crucial difference between being nice and being the "nice guy".

Yes. The latter is passive (or submissive perhaps more accurately) and a lot of times is really not "nice" at all, borne more from a sense of insecurity/fear than anything. The former comes from a respect of others _and_ oneself. I think the back and forth of this thread is happening with it being murky as to which one is being discussed.

[Josh500 1,615]

1 hour ago, Brundlefly said:

There is a crucial difference between being nice and being the "nice guy".

 

That's really semantics. A guy who is too nice too often is called a "nice guy."

 

A guy who thinks for himself and isn't afraid to directly address and/or tackle the issue at hand isn't called a nice guy and he isn't considered nice, to many around him. Being not a nice guy doesn't mean you're evil or a bad person. On the contrary.

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

I'd like to tell you my impressions of you based on certain of your posts, Josh500, and hear if you think I'm nice, a nice guy, or not nice. 

[BloodBoal 7,538]

This thread is really funny, even though there are no funny guys. Quite the opposite, actually.

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

[Josh500 1,615]

40 minutes ago, BloodBoal said:

This thread is really funny, even though there are no funny guys. Quite the opposite, actually.

 

I think it's funny that this started as "Who is Your Top 5 Composers" and slowly evolved into "Who is the Top 5 nicest guys here"!? 

 

1 hour ago, TheGreyPilgrim said:

I'd like to tell you my impressions of you based on certain of your posts, Josh500, and hear if you think I'm nice, a nice guy, or not nice. 

 

Based on this question alone I can tell that you're probably pretty weak. I can tell that it comes to you as a bit of a shock that "being nice" is not always considered the ideal, especially if you're a guy.

 

And no thanks. I don't care about your impressions of me....

[Brundlefly 2,385]

6 hours ago, Josh500 said:

 

I think it's funny that this started as "Who is Your Top 5 Composers" and slowly evolved into "Who is the Top 5 nicest guys here"!? 

Who will make the poll? You or me?

 

"Top 5 nicest JWFans?"

 

Let's not forget:

 

"Top 5 rudest JWFans?"

[karelm 2,913]

Let's merge the two discussions in this tread. 

 

Here is my list of the Top 5 nicest composers:

1. John Williams

2. Michael Giacchino

3. Bear McCreary

4. Thomas Newman

5. James Newton Howard

[Josh500 1,615]

I understand Bernard Herrmann was a notoriously difficult man to work with.

 

But who cares about that today? His music is genius.

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

9 hours ago, Josh500 said:

 

I think it's funny that this started as "Who is Your Top 5 Composers" and slowly evolved into "Who is the Top 5 nicest guys here"!? 

 

 

Based on this question alone I can tell that you're probably pretty weak. I can tell that it comes to you as a bit of a shock that "being nice" is not always considered the ideal, especially if you're a guy.

 

And no thanks. I don't care about your impressions of me....

 

Lol this is exactly the kind of response I hoped for, it's actually uncanny.  Confirms that you are a spoiled, sheltered, deluded, pathetic whelp of a human.  And that this is the most directly insulting I've gotten on here, considering some of the spats I've had, should tell you something.  In fact, how could you think I idealize being nice in some childish way if you've seen any of my posts on here?  I believe in decency but not sugaring every word.  In that spirit let me again say that I think you're totally scum. It feels liberating to be direct like that on here!

[Jay 37,359]

Well this thread is going nowhere.  How about we either resume talking about our favorite composers or I'll lock it up

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

Jay, I apologise for the digression to such nastiness.  Off it now. 

[Loert 2,511]

1) John Powell

2) John Williams

3) Erich Korngold

4) Bernard Herrmann

5) Miklos Rozsa

 

I don't know 4) and 5) that well though. 

[Nick1Ø66 4,714]

11 hours ago, Josh500 said:

 

Based on this question alone I can tell that you're probably pretty weak. I can tell that it comes to you as a bit of a shock that "being nice" is not always considered the ideal, especially if you're a guy.

 

This one of the most stupid, cliched things I've ever heard. The type of thing the pr*ck character in a John Hughes movie would say. How old are you?

 

EDIT: Just saw your post Jay, fair enough.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

32 minutes ago, Nick1066 said:

The type of thing the pr*ck character in a John Hughes movie would say.

 

I thought all characters in John Hughes movies are pricks?

[Nick1Ø66 4,714]

 

11 minutes ago, BloodBoal said:

 

I thought all characters in John Hughes movies are pricks?

 

You just bought yourself another Saturday at JWFan.  You through?

[Brundlefly 2,385]

The agressions on this forum keep growing! Will it be the new YouTube?