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Bilbo Skywalker

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1 hour ago, Stefancos said:

There you go mentioning white people again? Snobbism and being white isn't the same thing. Don't get brainwashed by the American media, they will have you apologize for being born white each morning.

 

And please stop your silly and racist comments.

 

Steef is Theo Van Gogh reborn!

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1 hour ago, Richard said:

Alex mentions I, CLAUDIUS (stratospherically good show that it is) but when it was first shown on BBC 2, it drew a very large audience, I know, I was there. Does that make it elitist, or popular?

 

 

 

Every movie snob that respects himself will list Hitchcock's Rear Window. In my book, snob can be (relatively) popular: 2001: ASO,  Blade Runner, Citizen Kane, Manhattan ... quality always finds it way. They are 'popular', but to put this in perspective, one theatrical rerun of E.T makes more money than Blade Runner did in its entire life. 

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I prefer Blade Runner to E.T., but I concede that E.T. is probably a better film.

 

Blade Runner is more influential though, and a more important film in terms of cinematic history. E.T. was influential in a certain respect as well, but more in terms of its place in Spielberg's overall body of work from that era being influential.

 

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2 minutes ago, Nick1066 said:

I prefer Blade Runner to E.T., but I concede that E.T. is probably a better film.

 

 

I prefer E.T., almost certainly because I was only 5 when Blade Runner came out. I didn't get into Blade Runner till I was 30. I don't really believe one is better than the other, I was just being provocative for the sake of it.

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They are apples and oranges.

 

But when I compare films like that, that are nothing alike, I judge them by how well each achieves what it is supposed to be at its core.  By this measure, E.T. is almost perfect.  Though again I personally prefer Blade Runner.

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25 minutes ago, Disco Stu said:

Blade Runner 2049 failing commercially was really the best thing that could've happened to the more rabid original Blade Runner fans.  They get to keep feeling like they're in a special club only for the smart people.

 

I think I've read more reactions on 2049 than you, Disco, and most of BR fans really like the movie, much to their surprise. But yeah, a few were disgusted by the sequel. However, many think the lack of financial success is a bad thing for the future of science fiction. 

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2 minutes ago, Alexcremers said:

 

I think I've read more reactions on 2049 than you

 

100% true

 

I was mainly making the point that the failure of the original Blade Runner is a cornerstone of the annoying sci-fi snob's sense of self.  If BR2049 had been a wild success they would have had to rationalize their club being less exclusive.  Probably a lot of "You can't be a real fan unless [fill in the blank with BS]" and "I've been a fan since it wasn't cool to be a fan".  Normal nerd childishness that makes me want to claw my eyes out.

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Be careful, Stu, there's always a good chance that I could be one of those rabid original BR fans. I fear that I might be turned off by the music.

 

To quote Chris Alexander:

 

"I honestly cannot think of a major mainstream movie (of which BLADE RUNNER most assuredly was and still is) where music is this essential to its very identity. It’s almost as if the film was built around this music. And as much as I love Scott’s visual poetry and the central themes of humanity and identity that Dick’s original tale explores, I don’t think BLADE RUNNER could exist without this music. I certainly wouldn’t have the movie so hard-wired into my soul as it most assuredly is."

 

 

 

Alex
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


 

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49 minutes ago, Alexcremers said:

 

"I honestly cannot think of a major mainstream movie (of which BLADE RUNNER most assuredly was and still is) where music is this essential to its very identity.  

 

Mr. Alexander must not have seen many movies.  

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I have seen many a movies and I agree with him ... and Nerdwriter.

 

 

Of course, we connected to the movie and you didn't so that makes all the difference. Heck, I'm probably the only one at JWfan who did. Anyway, I doubt that Zimmer can repeat a once-in-a-lifetime occurrence. It something that can't be fabricated on demand.

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3 hours ago, Alexcremers said:

To quote Chris Alexander:

 

"I honestly cannot think of a major mainstream movie (of which BLADE RUNNER most assuredly was and still is) where music is this essential to its very identity. It’s almost as if the film was built around this music. And as much as I love Scott’s visual poetry and the central themes of humanity and identity that Dick’s original tale explores, I don’t think BLADE RUNNER could exist without this music. I certainly wouldn’t have the movie so hard-wired into my soul as it most assuredly is."

 

What a ridiculous statement. So Blade Runner's music had a profound impact on Alexander as a child, and therefore it's music is more important than in any other mainstream movie. Or any other aspect of the film (including, presumably, PKD's ideas). He's making a pretentious argument out of sentiment. "Hard wired into my soul?" Blimey.

 

There's no question the music is important to the film, but this is just hyperbole. Blade Runner couldn't exist without its music? What does that even mean? I assure you it could. 

 

I love Blade Runner. It's its most ardent fans I can do without (and that's not directed at you Alex). 

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1 hour ago, Nick1066 said:

Blade Runner couldn't exist without its music? Crikey, what does that even mean? I assure you it could. 

 

It means that Chris Alexander (who is actually a composer, BTW) thinks the music and visuals of Blade Runner form a perfect marriage, and that if you break it up, the movie would not be what it is today. It's the music that gives the visuals depth and meaning. It's the music that makes Blade Runner more than just another SF movie from the '80s. It's Vangelis that lets us see the movie in a different daylight. It may not be true in YOUR experience but it is definitely how we feel. It's not up to you to say that our feelings or our experience is wrong or ridiculous. I can only hope that there is a movie out there for you that evokes a similar strong experience, Nick. 

 

BTW, I think Star Wars and A Space Odyssey are a few other titles where the music is sooooo essential to their identity. I can't think of them without their soundtracks. And if I can't think of them, they don't exist.

 

Alex

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20 minutes ago, Alexcremers said:

It's the music that gives the visuals depth and meaning

 

Forgive me if I'm taking on the side of pretentiousness, but this is why Blade Runner takes on a lot of "spiritual" power for me. I see a lot of people criticize the movie for being very bare in its exploration of the themes it presents, and I understand why they feel that way. But when I think of scenes like where that Replicant is shot and tumbles through panes of glass in slow motion as "Blade Runner Blues" plays, _that_ for me explores the themes in a very satisfying and stirring way.

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1 hour ago, Alexcremers said:

 

It means that Chris Alexander (who is actually a composer, BTW) thinks the music and visuals of Blade Runner form a perfect marriage, and that if you break it up, the movie would not be what it is today. It's the music that gives the visuals depth and meaning. It's the music that makes Blade Runner more than just another SF movie from the '80s. It's Vangelis that lets us see the movie in a different daylight. It may not be true in YOUR experience but it is definitely how we feel. It's not up to you to say that our feelings or our experience is wrong or ridiculous. I can only hope that there is a movie out there for you that evokes a similar strong experience, Nick. 

 

BTW, I think Star Wars and A Space Odyssey are a few other titles where the music is sooooo essential to their identity. I can't think of them without their soundtracks. And if I can't think of them, they don't exist.

 

Alex

 

Well that explains it...he's a composer, so he can't imagine Blade Runner without the music. I'm sure Ben Burtt might look at it and say he can't imagine it without the sound design.  And an effects artist or production designer would point out to you that it's Blade Runner's visuals that have made it more influential than anything. It's the look of the film that's been copied over the years, not the score.

 

So I completely disagree that it's the music that made Blade Runner "more than just another SF movie from the 80's."  There's no doubt that the music is important to the film. But I don't think it's more a more vital component to the film than the look.  The complement each other, but to suggest that one is more important than the other, again, in this case the music, is simply a statement of personal preference.  No one would be talking about Blade Runner today if the score by Vangelis was accompanied by the production design of Ice Pirates. And while the sequel deliberately copies and evolves Blade Runner's look, I don't think the lack of music by Vangelis has hurt its critical reception.

 

And I'm not saying Alexander's "feelings" are ridiculous...just the pretensions he wraps them in. 

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16 hours ago, Stefancos said:

There you go mentioning white people again? Snobbism and being white isn't the same thing. Don't get brainwashed by the American media, they will have you apologize for being born white each morning.

 

The can't figure out that racism here and there work in different ways and terms. I expect to be USAplained everyday on everything.

 

15 hours ago, Quintus said:

E.T. is not only more readily accessible than Blade Runner, commercially far more broadly appealing than it; but it's arguably just better than it, too.

 

Spielberg is probably a bit less tone deaf than Scott. I'm not sure he would put romantic music over a rape scene.

 

Both movies fall heavily within the area of "my kind of movie", though. Although what that area is, I find it harder to explain.

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58 minutes ago, Nick1066 said:

 

So I completely disagree that it's the music that made Blade Runner "more than just another SF movie from the 80's."  There's no doubt that the music is important to the film. But I don't think it's more a more vital component to the film than the look.  The complement each other, but to suggest that one is more important than the other, again, in this case the music, is simply a statement of personal preference.  No one would be talking about Blade Runner today if the score by Vangelis was accompanied by the production design of Ice Pirates. And while the sequel deliberately copies and evolves Blade Runner's look, I don't think the lack of music by Vangelis has hurt its critical reception.

 

And I'm not saying Alexander's "feelings" are ridiculous...just the pretensions he wraps them in. 

 

Nobody said the music is more important than the visuals. Of course, the claim that Blade Runner wouldn't exist without its visuals is equally true. But I can't imagine Blade Runner with a different soundtrack. It would have been a different movie. Like Chris Alexander, I would have missed the emotions, the perspective and the chemistry (with the visuals) that Vangelis' score has been responsible for. 

 

I cannot comment on the score of the sequel but I will be shocked if it can evoke the same reaction from me ... and Chris Alexander ...and Nerdwriter ... and countless of other rabid Blade Runner fans.

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2 hours ago, Alexcremers said:

I cannot comment on the score of the sequel but I will be shocked if it can evoke the same reaction from me ... and Chris Alexander ...and Nerdwriter ... and countless of other rabid Blade Runner fans.

 

Of course. But that's at least partially my point. BR 2049 is critically adored, with near universal acclaim, despite the score (or who knows, maybe the critics love the music). And I'm sure you might be right, that "countless other" Blade Runner fans won't feel the same about the sequel as the original. But that goes for Star Wars and pretty much every revival of a nostalgia property, doesn't it? 

 

2 hours ago, Alexcremers said:

 

Nobody said the music is more important than the visuals. Of course, the claim that Blade Runner wouldn't exist without its visuals is equally true. But I can't imagine Blade Runner with a different soundtrack. It would have been a different movie. Like Chris Alexander, I would have missed the emotions, the perspective and the chemistry (with the visuals) that Vangelis' score has been responsible for. 

 

Fair enough!  But of course, we'll never know. Vangelis did do the score, and the rest is history.

 

But don't you really think you should give the sequel a chance?

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20 hours ago, Alexcremers said:

The Weird? Never heard of it. Is it snobby?

 

It has to be weird and "artistic". I don't care about the boring elitist overlong soap operas.

 

17 hours ago, Alexcremers said:

 

However, many think the lack of financial success is a bad thing for the future of science fiction. 

 

Oh, god forbid they realize there are more anglophone American sci-fi writers than can be adapted other than Philip K. Dick...

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I've never understood why Blade Runners are called Blade Runners.

 

I heard one suggestion (not here) that replicants are so close to humans that distinguishing them is like walking on a knife-edge. I dunno - it just feels wrong as a title to me. Why not 'Replicants'?

 

Minority Report, having a similarly ethics-based plot, is a terrible name. It refers to a very brief plot point. Why not Pre-Crime?

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2 hours ago, Brónach said:

 

It has to be weird and "artistic".

 

 

 

 

What TV shows do you have in mind? TV is mainly about the writing and characters. That is the forte of TV. In fact, "weird and artistic" sounds more like the kind of movies Hollywood is no longer interested in.

 

 

1 hour ago, Richard Penna said:

I've never understood why Blade Runners are called Blade Runners.

 

 

 

bladerunner.us.bluewind.1986.jpg

 

Hampton Fancher didn't like term 'detective' and was thinking of a name that could replace it. He saw the William S. Burroughs' book and said to Scott that it might be a good title for Deckard's job. Scott loved the idea so much that he not only agreed with Fancher, he also bought the title from Burroughs so he could use it for his film.

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A bit of googling (and some help from scifi.stackexchange led me to: http://www.vulture.com/2017/10/why-is-blade-runner-the-title-of-blade-runner.html

 

Before I read it, this quote sums it up:

 

Quote

The term is impressionistic at best and nonsensical at worst.

 

So it's either completely unrelated, or has such a deep meaning that you feel dumb when you don't understand it, or it's just meaningless. Either way, choose a better title.

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15 minutes ago, Alexcremers said:

It's an impressionistic term that is suggestive of someone walking on the razor's edge. I'm pretty sure that's why Hampton Fancher liked it.

 

Having just read the article, that explanation came from the author of a comic book adaptation trying to come up with something. In actuality, it's nothing other than it sounded cool and was an alternative to 'detective'. It's named after a book and unproduced screenplay for a completely unrelated story.

 

Yet critics will still fall over themselves trying to look intellectual by preaching about why it's called that.

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34 minutes ago, Richard Penna said:

In actuality, it's nothing other than it sounded cool and was an alternative to 'detective'.

 

And it describes something dangerous an violent, which is what a blade runner's job is about.

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On 14/10/2017 at 4:39 PM, Alexcremers said:

What TV shows do you have in mind? TV is mainly about the writing and characters. That is the forte of TV. In fact, "weird and artistic" sounds more like the kind of movies Hollywood is no longer interested in.

 

I think I'm doomed and that they can't pull off my tastes in live action TV because they don't have the budget.

 

Doomed! Doomed!

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