Which are your Top 5 most creative/original themes composed by John Williams?

[Josh500 1,615]

Which are your Top 5 most creative/original themes composed by John Williams? 

 

Not necessarily your Top 5 best or favourite, but the themes that you consider his most creative and original.... 

 

For me, at the moment:

 

1. Theme from Schindler's List 

2. Rey's Theme (The Force Awakens)

3. Snowy's Theme (The Adventures of Tintin)

4. Theme from Lost World

5. Abandoned in the Woods (A.I.)

[John 2,032]

These aren't definitive, but here are my top choices at the moment:

 

1. Rey's Theme (The Force Awakens)

2. Duel of the Fates (The Phantom Menace)

3. Main Theme (Home Alone)

4. The Ark Theme (Raiders of the Lost Ark)

5. Main Theme (Seven Years in Tibet)

 

[artguy360 1,842]

To me the Schindler's List main theme is pretty straight forward and simple in form and melody. It's incredibly touching but not particularly original or touching. 

[Nick Parker 3,040]

1 hour ago, Josh500 said:

 

5. Abandoned in the Woods (A.I.)

 

That's a great one! 

58 minutes ago, artguy360 said:

To me the Schindler's List main theme is pretty straight forward and simple in form and melody. It's incredibly touching but not particularly original or touching. 

 

 

(Relevant part is first two seconds or so)

[Brundlefly 2,385]

Abandoned in the Woods (A.I.)

Born on the Fourth of July (Main Theme)

The Lost World (Main Theme)

The Holy Grail (The Last Crusade)

Arlington (JFK)

The Emperor (Return of the Jedi)

[publicist 4,643]

The Long Goodbye

Born on the Fourth of July 

Close Encounters 

The Lost World

A. I. (Blue Fairy)

[Josh500 1,615]

4 hours ago, artguy360 said:

To me the Schindler's List main theme is pretty straight forward and simple in form and melody. It's incredibly touching but not particularly original or touching. 

 

No.

 

This is one of the most original melodies ever written by John Williams or anybody else. I continue to be impressed and blown away by it. This melody is a creative masterpiece. 

[A24 4,322]

Not exactly themes but hey!

 

- The Conspirators (JFK) (stolen by many other composers and even by Williams himself)

- The Motorcade (JFK) (unique track for Williams)

[YoYoMama 48]

Yoda's Theme is way up there. Luke and Leia. Marion's theme. Towering Inferno. Ugh.... he's a titan. 

[publicist 4,643]

20 minutes ago, YoYoMama said:

Yoda's Theme is way up there. Luke and Leia. Marion's theme. Ugh.... he's a titan. 

 

How are those 'creative'?

[YoYoMama 48]

Just now, publicist said:

 

How are those 'creative'?

 

I'll leave that up to you to decide. 

[publicist 4,643]

Well, they aren't. 

[YoYoMama 48]

1 minute ago, publicist said:

Well, they aren't. 

 

Ok. I believe you. 

[Josh500 1,615]

5 hours ago, JohnSolo said:

2. Duel of the Fates (The Phantom Menace)

 

 

This is an incredible piece, but it's obviously inspired by (or even based on) Carl Orff's Carmina Burana. 

5 hours ago, JohnSolo said:

3. Main Theme (Home Alone)

 

And this (and the whole score) is based on Tschaikowsky's The Nutcracker.

 

That's why I don't consider these particularly creative or original, even if the scores are fantastic. 

[Naïve Old Fart 9,488]

I rather like the main theme from JANE EYRE.

Ok, it owes a debt of gratitude to another Williams, but I still think that it's one of his more original pieces.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

The Government Agent theme from E.T.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

The Back to the Future theme.

[John 2,032]

4 hours ago, Josh500 said:

 

This is an incredible piece, but it's obviously inspired by (or even based on) Carl Orff's Carmina Burana. 

 

And this (and the whole score) is based on Tschaikowsky's The Nutcracker.

 

That's why I don't consider these particularly creative or original, even if the scores are fantastic. 

 

They may be loosely based on said themes, but they still have their own unique flare to them, and I personally find them both highly innovative.

[artguy360 1,842]

16 hours ago, Josh500 said:

 

No.

 

This is one of the most original melodies ever written by John Williams or anybody else. I continue to be impressed and blown away by it. This melody is a creative masterpiece. 

Everything John Williams writes is creative to some extent but a piece like Duel of the Fates which has such a clear origin in an already existing work wouldn't make my top 5 of most creative works. The Schindler's List Theme has too simple a progression and structure for me to consider "most creative" as well. The melody is really good, but I don't see it as a shining example of JW's melodic creativity. Of the 2 major themes in the score, I find Remembrances to be more enjoyable and possibly more creative as well.

[Tom 4,630]

1) Boston 350 piece.  A nice little melody that reminds me of nothing else, though precedents are probably out there.

2) 1984 Olympic theme, particularly the fanfare.  Other composers have, of course written fanfares, but this distills it down to its perfect essence.

3)  Tuba concerto, first movement.

4)  Flute concerto. Original, but to the point where it should stay that way.

5)  Blood Moon.  A perfect combination of Mozart and modern sensibilities that perfectly stands on its own. 

[Josh500 1,615]

36 minutes ago, Tom said:

2) 1984 Olympic theme, particularly the fanfare.  Other composers have, of course written fanfares, but this distills it down to its perfect essence.

 

I agree. 

 

The fanfare is in a league of its own! 

[JoeinAR 1,949]

Oh good lord he tries and fails

[KK 3,307]

On 2017-10-20 at 10:58 PM, Josh500 said:

1. Theme from Schindler's List 

2. Rey's Theme (The Force Awakens)

3. Snowy's Theme (The Adventures of Tintin)

 

How do these fit the criteria of "original/creative"?

 

1. Elegant melody, clearly moulded after your usual romance/melodrama tunes

2. An amalagamation of your ususal and very familiar Williams melodic hooks/devices, just tied together quite well

3. A pastiche of romantic era scherzos, and one that harkens back to many familiar pieces that Williams has written in this vein.

 

Off the top of my head, these come to mind:

 

Close Encounters of the Third Kind

Born on the Fourth of July

Sleepers

The Lost World

Catch Me If You Can

[Josh500 1,615]

7 hours ago, KK said:

 

How does these fit the criteria of "original/creative"?

 

You do realize that what one considers original or creative is, in the end, mostly subjective. Everybody has a different impression of what is new or original. There's absolutely nothing new under the sun, and everything has been done before.

 

Only a moron would question everything somebody else says regarding music and try to convince them otherwise. You don't agree, that's fine. You can ask me why I think these are creative and original, but don't try to convince me otherwise. That's just being an obnoxious moron.

 

It's called "different opinions."

7 hours ago, KK said:

Off the top of my head, these come to mind:

 

Close Encounters of the Third Kind

Born on the Fourth of July

Sleepers

The Lost World

Catch Me If You Can

 

Good choices, but the question was about themes, but entire scores.

 

Unless you mean the main themes of all these scores.

11 hours ago, artguy360 said:

The melody is really good, but I don't see it as a shining example of JW's melodic creativity. 

 

Question was not about complexity.

 

This theme is, for me at least, one of the most creative and massively successful and impressive pieces ever written, by any composer. I can't get over the beauty, elegance, and originality of this melody. Structure is only deceptively simple. It's actually as complex as they come, much more so than Star Wars main theme, Jaws, Indiana Jones, or even the Theme from Jurassic Park....

 

I consider it a masterpiece.

 

 

11 hours ago, artguy360 said:

a piece like Duel of the Fates which has such a clear origin in an already existing work wouldn't make my top 5 of most creative works. 

 

I agree with you. And I didn't list it in my Top 5, either.

[Brundlefly 2,385]

Every time someone has a good argument against someone else, the reply is just "it's always subjective and just a matter of taste", but when the argument supports one's opinion, the argument is taken as proof that one's opinion is right. That's not how discussion works.

[Josh500 1,615]

3 minutes ago, Brundlefly said:

Every time someone has a good argument against someone else, the reply is just "it's always subjective and just a matter of taste", but when the argument supports one's opinion, the argument is taken as proof that one's opinion is right. That's not how discussion works.

 

Again, there's no right or wrong here. This isn't science. How hard can it be to get this basic fact through your head?

 

It's just opinions. 

 

Nobody should be attacked or criticised for their opinions.

[Brundlefly 2,385]

1 minute ago, Josh500 said:

 

Again, there's no right or wrong here. This isn't science. How hard can it be to get this basic fact through your head?

 

It's just opinions. 

 

Nobody should be attacked or criticised for their opinions.

KK didn't attack you, he just questioned your choice and gave a reason for this.

[Josh500 1,615]

Just now, Brundlefly said:

KK didn't attack you, he just questioned your choice and gave a reason for this.

 

And I just said that opinions are largely subjective. There's no need for him to try to convince me that my that opinions are invalid or wrong.

 

 

 

 

[Brundlefly 2,385]

2 minutes ago, Josh500 said:

 

And I just said that opinions are largely subjective. There's no need for him to try to convince me that my that opinions are invalid or wrong.

 

 

 

 

One can still peacefully discuss the originality/creativity of JW's themes without falling back on the subjectivity/objectivity topic. This is always how a discussion ends and it is annoying, as well as the fact that so many people consider a normal discussion hostile.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,488]

For me, JW's most creative, and most inspired musical creation, is...wait for it...the two notes, from JAWS!

"A whaaat?", I hear you say?

Ok, so they're not the most striking of two notes (there's only a semitone between them, for cryin' out loud ), but it's what they evoke that's important. In creating the motif for Bruce, JW tapped into something primal, and utterly terrifying - the prospect of being torn apart (literally) by a rather large fish.

It goes further than that, however; because we hardly see the shark for a good 75 minutes of movie, the two notes encapsulate our fears, and not just of water, or sharks. The two notes symbolise everything about our own fears, whatever they may be - in short, a fear of the unknown. They communicate fear to an audience, far more than any number of spoken lines. JW was right, and Spielberg was wrong.

That's creativity, and that's great scoring.

[KK 3,307]

9 hours ago, Josh500 said:

You don't agree, that's fine. You can ask me why I think these are creative and original

 

I'm sorry, but is that not exactly what I did by asking "How" those themes I quoted fit your criteria of creative and original?

 

5 hours ago, Josh500 said:

 

And I just said that opinions are largely subjective. There's no need for him to try to convince me that my that opinions are invalid or wrong.

 

I did nothing of the sort. I explained why I thought those themes were not creative/original, relative to the rest of his massive career.

 

Heck, you do exactly the same just a few posts above:

On 10/21/2017 at 5:12 AM, Josh500 said:

 

This is an incredible piece, but it's obviously inspired by (or even based on) Carl Orff's Carmina Burana. 

 

And this (and the whole score) is based on Tschaikowsky's The Nutcracker.

 

You argued that there's "nothing new under the sun". Well, of course, but to me, creativity and originality can be parameters measured with relativity to his own work. And if you're relying on the old "subjectivity" argument, then what's the difference between a thread like this and asking "What are your favourite themes?". 

 

6 hours ago, Josh500 said:

Nobody should be attacked or criticised for their opinions.

 

And yet again, you're the only one in this thread doing this...

9 hours ago, Josh500 said:

Only a moron would question everything somebody else says regarding music and try to convince them otherwise. You don't agree, that's fine. You can ask me why I think these are creative and original, but don't try to convince me otherwise. That's just being an obnoxious moron.

 

If you wanted to create a thread for everyone to simply agree with you, then you should probably head to the Youtube comments section. If you want people to occasionally challenge you and gage you in an actual discussion, then carry on here. But neither place is really going to welcome the arrogant attitude you seem to be carrying on with at the moment.

[artguy360 1,842]

5 hours ago, Josh500 said:

 

And I just said that opinions are largely subjective. There's no need for him to try to convince me that my that opinions are invalid or wrong.

 

 

 

 

Don't make a thread if you're going to be defensive when people engage with the premise of your thread. Creativity is highly subjective. If you're not willing to civilly discuss differences in how we understand JW's creativity then why make the thread?

[Brundlefly 2,385]

5 hours ago, KK said:

You argued that there's "nothing new under the sun". Well, of course, but to me, creativity and originality can be parameters measured with relativity to his own work. And if you relying on the old "subjectivity" argument, then what's the difference between a thread like this and asking "What are your favourite themes?". 

The "Old Subjectivity Argument (OSA)" usually contains the hidden message that the opponent has "won" the argumentation.

[igger6 894]

This thread devolved into fruitless hair-splitting and argumentative recrimination faster than I'd expected.

 

For the record, here are mine:

 

"Here They Come!" from Star Wars:

Laser blasts and explosions played by acoustic instruments.  Brilliant!

"Crimebuster" from Heartbeeps:

It sounds like a Star Wars battle motif invaded by a robot playing a mouth harp.

"The Battle in the Snow" from The Empire Strikes Back:

It references a lot of thematic material, but between the thematic statements is wild, chaotic battle music that conveys the terror of a losing battle without sacrificing excitement or tonality.  (Contemporary film composers, take note.)

"Going to School" from Memoirs of a Geisha:

Sounds like nothing else I can think of in JW's oeuvre.

"The Mine Car Chase" from Temple of Doom:

Part of a series of "onomatopoetic" action pieces by WIlliams that includes "Here They Come!" above, but also the "bike sounds" in "Adventures on Earth," the scurrying insect feet of "Ants!" and eight-legged phrases of "The Spiders," and any number of train- and time-related cues, all of which I love.  I suppose you could argue that since they all represent on-screen sounds, none of them is original, but film music doesn't usually overlap with sound effects, so I think it's all original.

 

[artguy360 1,842]

I think Rey's Theme deserves a spot as one of JW's most creative themes for 3 reasons: One, a melody that is long lined and versatile enough to support multiple renditions, some played more tender, others more bold. Two, multiple small musical components that work together to speak to many facets of the character the theme represents such as the piano/bells for Rey's isolation, the very active string bit which speaks to her resourcefulness and agility, etc. And three, an overall very fast pace for the theme cue which makes it fairly unique among JW's major themes. 

[James 119]

And still subtly relates Rey (the new heroine) to all the other characters in the franchise.

[Chen G. 3,940]

On 10/23/2017 at 0:02 AM, artguy360 said:

I think Rey's Theme deserves a spot as one of JW's most creative themes for 3 reasons: One, a melody that is long lined and versatile enough to support multiple renditions, some played more tender, others more bold. Two, multiple small musical components that work together to speak to many facets of the character the theme represents such as the piano/bells for Rey's isolation, the very active string bit which speaks to her resourcefulness and agility, etc. And three, an overall very fast pace for the theme cue which makes it fairly unique among JW's major themes. 

 

Williams' principal themes are almost always long-lined and multifaceted ideas. Luke's theme has that opening fanfare (in the opening crawl), the very bold A-phrase and the more lyrical B-phrase.

 

What's new is that where he approached female characters in Star Wars with romantic themes, here he scored Rey from the point of view of a grandfather.

[nightscape94 965]

In no particular order.  Please keep in mind that these are not necessarily my favorites, just what I may consider intricate or nicely written themes.

 

Force Theme - Perfection

Han Solo and the Princess - Great take on a love theme and interesting intervallic relationships

Island Theme from Jurassic Park - Probably the best fanfare he ever wrote

Seven Years in Tibet main theme - Moody, dark and exotic

Omaha Beach/primary theme from Saving Private Ryan - Aching, and I love how it unfolds slowly and inexorably through its line.  It achieves so much with so little.

 

 

[Loert 2,509]

Some that come to mind are:

 

Main titles of Lost in Space

The percussion in Scout Walker Scramble (yes it's a theme because the horns play it later at 6:22!)

And David's "synthy" theme from A.I.

 

Oh, forgot that I had to pick 5...in that case I'll be forced to choose the Lost World theme, and Earthquake for its slightly unusual combination of menacing horns and "off-key" violins in the high register.