The day Hans Zimmer turned John Williams into ‘Christmas sounds’…

[BloodBoal 7,538]

14 hours ago, FC4L said:

Heck even Star Trek The Motion Picture completely abandoned the Star Trek theme for something much different. 

 

The theme did show up in the score.

[FC4L 87]

15 hours ago, BloodBoal said:

 

The theme did show up in the score.

 

For a blink and you'll miss it moment, as an homage. The main theme of the film was completely new, same as Trek 2009. That's the point. Same universe. Same characters. Completely new themes. Yet somehow new versions of characters in a new re-booted universe should carry over themes that were not crafted for them for "musical thematic consistency"??

 

Williams Superman theme does not fit a moody half-emo stand-by-and-watch-Kevin-Costner-get-sucked-up-by-a-tornado need-another-shirtless-sequence-for-the-ladies MARTHA!!! version of the Man of Steel.

 

Let's also look at how far away from Williams themes the Harry Potter films moved the higher the number climbs. Eventually they come back to Hedgewig's theme but more or less the rest is just ignored for plain, boring non-memorable filler.

[rough cut 1,714]

Well, I don’t agree. I listened to the score (briefly) and it sounds like a good soundtrack to these ears.

 

And Elfman did keep the Clark theme Zimmer wrote, so he didn’t completely uproot the musical universe Zimmer was trying to create - what he seems to have done is bring back an iconic fanfare in brief statements to manifest Superman’s presence audibly. It all sounds fitting, epic and non-indulgent.

 

Mind you, I’ve not seen the movie, so I’ve no idea how well it fits the screen, but I’d be surprised if I was disappointed.

[ocelot 508]

On 11/20/2017 at 2:37 PM, publicist said:

 

You probably can't even hear them through all the noise.

from what I understand, wasn't it only the first part of trumpet solo from William's Superman theme that is used, not the actual theme itself? I could be wrong, but that's what I was told.

 

Also, it's not just the change it tone of the music that was a problem, but DC changed the whole tone of the DC universe to match Marvel's. Batman became more jokey, the banter was more light, the EMOne of the whole franchise taken away. Bringing in Joss Whedon was to change Snyder's tone and so much was reshot. So maybe it's a reaction to all of it. Now having said that, Elfman could have kept all the existing themes and layered in the old ones. As much as I absolutely love Williams Superman Theme I can't even imagine it in this universe. It's just too hokey for this. Even I, who does not like this particular DC film music sound, would say, no, don't use that theme, it just won't fit, it'll be laughable in context.

[rough cut 1,714]

Hi guys! So I saw the movie yesterday and all this hype/negative reaction/media  attention that the old themes are dragging the movie... it’s a complete sham. The old Super- and Batman-theme are barely in the movie at all. Sure, you’ll pick it up if you pay attention but if anyone says they’re ruining the film is a complete exaggeration.

 

All-in-all, I thought it was a really good movie as well. I don’t understand the negative reviews it’s been getting. How come reviewers and fans aren’t liking it? It’s certainly on level - if not better - than Thor Ragnarök that also is running currently. And it certainly has a better soundtrack than that movie!

 

Watching Ragnarök I thought the score sounded like a home made hodgepot of someone trying to do an homage to something between an 8-bit game soundtrack and Stranger Things.

All that love for Mark Mothersbaugh 80’s fluff but none for Elfman? I don’t get it.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Arpy 4,145]

Stranger Things doesn't sound like a score either.

[Bryant Burnette 654]

Of course it does.  And quite a good one.

[rough cut 1,714]

Ok, the Stranger Things remark was a bit of a long shot - and I’ve only listened to the Ragnarök score within the confinement of the movie - but I did find the score to be a bit of mess in the movie. But that 80’s vibe is all over both of these properties so it’s not that much of a stretch: Things was much more moody and swooping, while Ragnarök was much more blippety-bloppety, but hopefully, one can forgive the comparison.

 

To expandera about my thoughts on the Ragnarök soundtrack, and the topic we’re discussing in this thread, I remember the score to blend the synthesizer sound with the orchestral, so tonally it’s all over the place and extremely inconsistent. The Led Zeppelin song showed up twice which I thought removed a lot of its impact second time around. I thought Ragnarök was a very good movie, but the score was not one of its strong parts.

 

Amyway, this post was originally about Williams, Elfman and the Justice League, so I’ll not stray too far on the subject. But if nothing else, it’s interesting to compare the Justice League soundtrack Ragnarök’s counterpart, and the way the movies have been received.

 

[Bryant Burnette 654]

I saw both movies once and have only listened to the music in that way -- I'd give Ragnarok the upper hand, personally.  It's got more attitude and more resonance.  But the movie itself is so much better that it'd be surprising if the music wasn't, too.

 

That's not to say I disliked Justice League.  I thought it was a lot of fun.  The score was okay, but did not stand out.  I wish Elfman had leaned into the themes (his own for Batman, plus Williams's for Superman -- and maybe even used his own Flash theme, too); the movie would have benefited from it.  But I didn't think he did bad work by any means.

 

As for the original point of this thread...it's silly.  Every movie is a clean slate, in theory; I don't think a Zimmer-esque approach to Justice League would have worked, because the movie itself was not suited for it.  And I say that as someone who loves the scores for the Nolan movies.

[James 119]

I believe that If Elfman back to make the score of the next JL and try to fix the errors of the current score (themes with little memorable presentations and bad use of the classical themes of 78 and 89) the DC will back to having a consistent and enjoyable musical universe.

[Alan 689]

There's a cycle to these things. John Williams' style was out of fashion when he did Star Wars. I'm sure the same is true now - people will re-discover the more classical sound of orchestral film scoring and the Zimmerites will go the way of the disco scores of the 70s.

 

Elfman's JL score is just not very good so it's hardly going to win anyone over. I didn't even get through 1 full listen without having to skip around.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

6 minutes ago, alan1984 said:

There's a cycle to these things. John Williams' style was out of fashion when he did Star Wars. I'm sure the same is true now - people will re-discover the more classical sound of orchestral film scoring and the Zimmerites will go the way of the disco scores of the 70s.

 

Wishful thinking. Hollywood has streamlined the process of film scoring to a point where it's a task performed by a 'team of professionals' rather than the labourous work of an artist. It makes for a safer, more marketable product. And nobody seems to mind. Bold, orchestral film scores will never be the status quo again.

[Alan 689]

I try to be positive and optimistic! I'll keep my glass half full and enjoy the classics while I wait

[Dixon Hill 4,233]

2 hours ago, alan1984 said:

There's a cycle to these things. John Williams' style was out of fashion when he did Star Wars. I'm sure the same is true now - people will re-discover the more classical sound of orchestral film scoring and the Zimmerites will go the way of the disco scores of the 70s.

 

An absurd equivalency.  What Zimmer is doing will be far more lasting and timeless than something so zeitgeisty and period specific as disco scores.  

 

You can be optimistic and enjoy the classics, but don't be blind to new things that will themselves become classics. 

 

Why do people have such a hard time getting past their childhood stuff as the definition of greatness?

[Lord Zimmer 211]

The more important question: why do I keep getting blamed for this shit? Damnit keep me out of it, I'm innocent!

[Offline 29]

On 11/28/2017 at 10:40 AM, TGP said:

 

An absurd equivalency.  What Zimmer is doing will be far more lasting and timeless than something so zeitgeisty and period specific as disco scores.  

 

You can be optimistic and enjoy the classics, but don't be blind to new things that will themselves become classics. 

 

Why do people have such a hard time getting past their childhood stuff as the definition of greatness?

I'm sorry, but Man of Steel, Batman V Superman, Dunkirk, will never be classics.

 

Maybe some of his earlier work. But I haven't cared for a Zimmer score in years and I used to absolutely love his stuff (Inception, Angels and Demons, The Dark Knight, etc.) His efforts in the last several years? No, those won't be classics. Not even Elfman's Justice League score will be a classic. 

 

I think I'd lose my mind if his recent, boring, walls of noise, were ever widely considered classics. 

[idril 86]

1 hour ago, zeekypttr5678 said:

I'm sorry, but Man of Steel, Batman V Superman, Dunkirk, will never be classics.

 

Maybe some of his earlier work. But I haven't cared for a Zimmer score in years and I used to absolutely love his stuff (Inception, Angels and Demons, The Dark Knight, etc.) His efforts in the last several years? No, those won't be classics. Not even Elfman's Justice League score will be a classic. 

 

I think I'd lose my mind if his recent, boring, walls of noise, were ever widely considered classics. 

What about Interstellar? You really don't think that has potential to be a classic? I'll agree on Man of Steel, BvS and Dunkirk, but I really think Interstellar is an evocative, interesting and 'best of later Zimmer' score. I suspect it will stand the test of time.

[Dixon Hill 4,233]

2 hours ago, zeekypttr5678 said:

I'm sorry, but Man of Steel, Batman V Superman, Dunkirk, will never be classics.

 

Maybe some of his earlier work. But I haven't cared for a Zimmer score in years and I used to absolutely love his stuff (Inception, Angels and Demons, The Dark Knight, etc.) His efforts in the last several years? No, those won't be classics. Not even Elfman's Justice League score will be a classic. 

 

I think I'd lose my mind if his recent, boring, walls of noise, were ever widely considered classics. 

 

Thanks for completely ignoring the main point of my post in order to push your agenda of not liking Zimmer.

 

Why can't all new posters be like Idril?

[Arpy 4,145]

I love Interstellar but I doubt it will become a classic for Nolan the way Memento has. 

[Offline 29]

I’m in the wrong clearly, so I’ll go back to lurking and observing now.

[Dixon Hill 4,233]

Dude everyone was being "respectful."  No need for a manifesto because you disagree (and seemingly misunderstand) with what was said.  I mean who here disregarded music you love as old and childish memories that you should let go of?

[Offline 29]

On 11/28/2017 at 10:40 AM, TGP said:

Why do people have such a hard time getting past their childhood stuff as the definition of greatness?

 

Tell me how I was supposed to interpret that?

[Dixon Hill 4,233]

As me questioning why some people get blinded by their first loves to the exclusion of other things that might be worth loving.  Nothing about the legitimacy of those first loves.

[Offline 29]

3 minutes ago, TGP said:

As me questioning why some people get blinded by their first loves to the exclusion of other things that might be worth loving.  Nothing about the legitimacy of those first loves.

 

So again, my question, which recently Zimmer scores do you think we’re all too blinded to love, that will become classics? 

[Dixon Hill 4,233]

Don't really love the snide tone man.  Think I'm not interested in continuing the conversation as a result.  And you want to give me lessons about respect?

[Offline 29]

11 minutes ago, TGP said:

Don't really love the snide tone man.  Think I'm not interested in continuing the conversation as a result.  And you want to give me lessons about respect?

 

It’s text on the internet. I’m not trying to be snide. Sorry for misunderstanding. Guess I’ll head out too

 

edit: Sorry everyone for the derailment and disrespect on my part. Carry on. I’ll keep my thoughts to myself.

[gkgyver 1,645]

On 20. November 2017 at 8:58 PM, Tom said:

I don't get the terms "experimental" and "original" as applied to Zimmer and co.  Perhaps they were that 10-15 years ago, but now they are anything but. 

 

Hans Zimmer has become the very definition of anti-experimental.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

Justice League was pure shit and there's no excusing it. You don't go from composing these masterpieces like his Batman scores to that musical equivalent of listening to someone snoring through the floorboards at 3 in the morning.

 

Zimmer and Junkie's entries contained better music than Elfman's pathetic score. The Bruce Wayne/Batman theme in BvS was at least inspired, even if it did seem to be ripping off Goldenthal. It's atmospheric as all hell and it nails the character musically. There's no point in listening to Elfman's JL, a score where he had no idea how to even use his own Batman theme. The one good Wonder Woman track was done by someone else.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

BvS is a score that took its time to grow on me. Sure Zimmer's scores might not become regarded as classics, let alone memorable scores, but they're highly effective in-context. They did their job well, I guarantee it.

[Arpy 4,145]

7 hours ago, Philippe Roaché said:

Justice League was pure shit and there's no excusing it. You don't go from composing these masterpieces like his Batman scores to that musical equivalent of listening to someone snoring through the floorboards at 3 in the morning.

 

Zimmer and Junkie's entries contained better music than Elfman's pathetic score. The Bruce Wayne/Batman theme in BvS was at least inspired, even if it did seem to be ripping off Goldenthal. It's atmospheric as all hell and it nails the character musically. There's no point in listening to Elfman's JL, a score where he had no idea how to even use his own Batman theme. The one good Wonder Woman track was done by someone else.

TBH, I thought Justice League, Wonder Woman, and BvS were all quite generic action/adventure scores. MoS has some nice highlights and rhythmic sections that stand out above the rest - it's just a shame it was for one of the worst Superhero films ever made!

 

 

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

15 hours ago, Denise Bryson said:

BvS is a score that took its time to grow on me. Sure Zimmer's scores might not become regarded as classics, let alone memorable scores, but they're highly effective in-context. They did their job well, I guarantee it.

 

I'm the last one to defend those guys, but the scores served the movies well and they had some good stuff to listen to apart from them. Did you ever think you'd read me post such a thing?

 

Elfman's wasn't good by any standard. I honestly think any major composer would have come up with something better. I know he's better than this. He has failed us.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

It's Elfman's less talented doppleganger at large.

[Arpy 4,145]

2 hours ago, Denise Bryson said:

It's Elfman's less talented doppleganger at large.

@Stefancos?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Oi!

[rough cut 1,714]

 

[Dixon Hill 4,233]

What does that have to do with this thread?

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Wrong floor.

[Dixon Hill 4,233]

Who's been holding up the damn elevator?

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Hi... something wrong with the elevator?

[Dixon Hill 4,233]

 

"Elevator."

[rough cut 1,714]

Are you guys serious? I thought it’d be obvious, and self explanatory, but ok, here goes.

 

It heavily features JW’s theme for images that is supposed to be the new DCEU. The maker of the video clearly loves the tune.

 

Even if it’s done as a spoof, I see it as a comment on the whole “should we/shouldn’t we” debacle, regarding the use of old themes in new movies.

 

Clearer now?

[Dixon Hill 4,233]

What does that have to do with elevators?

[Pieter Boelen 740]

On 02/02/2018 at 8:16 AM, rough cut said:

Are you guys serious? I thought it’d be obvious, and self explanatory, but ok, here goes.

 

It heavily features JW’s theme for images that is supposed to be the new DCEU. The maker of the video clearly loves the tune.

That was great! Especially using the Williams theme add the direct cause of resurrecting superman as Superman!

[Joni Wiljami 1,206]

Of course that was great. Instead of that two-note-novelty.

[TheUlyssesian 2,473]

On 2/1/2018 at 5:09 PM, rough cut said:

 

 

Is the lady from 1:30 - 1:38 Amy Adams?

[James 119]

It would be a wonderful way for Snyder to instantly convert all the haters of Man of Steel into worshipers of his films. Better than that, if only Superman came back in the past and prevented Robin's death, so Batman would never have killed so many people in cold blood.