Popular Post Disco Stu 15,495 Posted April 20, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted April 20, 2018 So here’s what I don’t understand. This past December, John gifted us a soundtrack album that is among the best scores I’ve heard this decade. An album where each and every cue is entertaining, melodic, emotional, and containing a richness and depth of gorgeous orchestration that is just astounding. It’s a crowd pleasing score like enthusiasts lament doesn’t get written anymore. A score with four or five central melodic ideas that get developed and played with in super cool ways over the course of the album. . . . . . . . . . But nobody is talking about FERDINAND. Well, here goes. I have listened to this soundtrack at least twice a week over the past 4 months and it just has not gotten old. It’s so dense with ideas! Powell is resetting/recontextualizing melodies in ways where I don’t realize what it is until the 4th time I’ve listened to the cue. I’m going to go on record saying that I think “Flower Festival” is one of the best film score tracks of the decade. The Flower Theme (a name that Powell himself uses to describe the main melody in “Flower Festival”) is definitely the showstopper theme of the score. But I’m a bit fascinated with this other theme lately. It’s the only central theme not introduced in the opening cue, “Bees and Bulls.” I call it the Pacifist Theme and it’s first introduced in the cue “Father and Son.” I think it represents how Ferdinand (and Powell) wish the world worked, that people could live non-violently. I haven’t seen all of the movie, not really up my alley, but I think that’s what it is. It’s an aching melody that perfectly captures a reality that Powell knows is just a dream. Anyway, holy crap it’s great. It’s far from the most used theme in the movie, but when it is it’s for maximum emotional effect. Here’s where it’s quietly introduced on strings, guitar, and oboe. (0:40 - 1:06) Now this isn’t really a quote of the theme, but in my opinion it absolutely is meant to function as a grief-stricken echo of the melody as Ferdinand’s illusions are shattered by the death of his father. (0:41 - 0:56) The proper theme makes an appearance later in the same track, “Finding Home.” This rendition evokes an almost spiritual joy as Ferdinand first steps out into the idyllic field of flowers that serves as his new home. In “A New Day” the theme has a lovely quiet rendition on just guitar with backing horn before the strings join in and it transitions perfectly to the Flower Theme The theme sits out for a while before making a return for the final minute of “Ferdinand and Nina.” The cellos lead on this rendition, reflecting a deeper, more mature Ferdinand mourning for his idealized world that doesn’t exist It then sits out again until the great “Madrid Finale” where it makes two appearances. Setting up the emotional climax of the score to 6:36 - 7:04 A wonderful, triumphant setting at 9:05 And finally he closes out the score with it, at least before quick celeste rendition of the Flower Theme. Definitely an indication of the melody's importance to Powell's emotional intent for the score overall, despite it being used only sparingly. I can already tell you that this is definitely going to be one of my most listened to albums of 2018 and I cannot wait to hear what Powell (and Williams) have cooked up for Solo. I have a work in progress breakdown of all the themes in the score that I might post later. Loert, DemonStar, Kasey Kockroach and 12 others 9 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasey Kockroach 2,344 Posted April 20, 2018 Share Posted April 20, 2018 Dude, Ferdinand is already one of my favorite Powell scores and I'm baffled how little attention it's getting even among the few Powell fans (though people at least like it enough, I guess). This post is amazing and cathartic to read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,352 Posted April 20, 2018 Author Share Posted April 20, 2018 Ferdinand is great! There's even more music available on the FYC album, too! Welcome back Stu! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasey Kockroach 2,344 Posted April 20, 2018 Share Posted April 20, 2018 Yeah, I noticed some great music in the film not on the album, but the album is so perfect in terms of length and cues selected, I don't mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,352 Posted April 20, 2018 Author Share Posted April 20, 2018 Thanks for that thematic breakdown, @Disco Stu. I will rexamine the score with your theme analysis in mind! Disco Stu 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveMc 2,674 Posted April 20, 2018 Share Posted April 20, 2018 On this matter, I agree with @Disco Stu. Powell certainly can impress from time to time. His serious approach here reminds me of Horner. The orchestrations, though, so clear and balanced. Like fresh air penetrating the contemporary smog. Will and Disco Stu 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John 2,032 Posted April 20, 2018 Share Posted April 20, 2018 4 hours ago, Disco Stu said: I have listened to this soundtrack at least twice a week over the past 4 months So that's what you've been doing all this time you've been away... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Sharkissimo 1,973 Posted April 20, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted April 20, 2018 Thanks for shining a light on a remarkable score, @Disco Stu Listening on Spotify now. Disco Stu, Not Mr. Big and Muad'Dib 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post toothless 963 Posted April 21, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted April 21, 2018 Finaly, great to hear I'm not the only one really liking this score ! DemonStar, Not Mr. Big and Kasey Kockroach 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muad'Dib 1,802 Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 The whole track Bees and Bulls is outstanding but the ending takes the cake for me. Disco Stu 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not Mr. Big 4,639 Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 It really is an underrated score. The best Latin American 3D score of 2018 by a wide margin (Coco sucks). Kasey Kockroach 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasey Kockroach 2,344 Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 There's something about this score that feels so dignified and refined, moreso than usual for Powell antics. I actually didn't mind the movie. It's a very nicely animated, cute and harmless kids movie with its heart in the right place. Refreshingly deprived of cynicism. At the very least, I'd say it's one of the better Blue Sky things. Though I'm someone who used to live with roommates whose kids would watch things like Hoodwinked, Johnny Test, CGI Smurfs or Everyone's Hero. Ferdinand's practically a classic compared to what I've sat through during babysitting sessions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not Mr. Big 4,639 Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 1 minute ago, kaseykockroach said: There's something about this score that feels so dignified and refined, moreso than usual for Powell antics. I actually didn't mind the movie. It's a very nicely animated, cute and harmless kids movie with its heart in the right place. Refreshingly deprived of cynicism. At the very least, I'd say it's one of the better Blue Sky things. Though I'm someone who used to live with roommates whose kids would watch things like Hoodwinked, Johnny Test, CGI Smurfs or Everyone's Hero. Ferdinand's practically a classic compared to what I've sat through during babysitting sessions. Your roommates had kids? That sounds like a living nightmare! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasey Kockroach 2,344 Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 Two kids. And three dogs. Four cats. Left food out at night for ants and cockroaches to pick on in the morning. But this story has a happy ending. I no longer live there. I now instead live with my grandpa who complains about every other film score I put on in the background. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DemonStar 57 Posted April 22, 2018 Share Posted April 22, 2018 Thanks a lot for the wonderful analysis of this beautiful score. It's one of my favourites from recent years too. Disco Stu 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Stu 15,495 Posted April 22, 2018 Share Posted April 22, 2018 Thanks everybody. It really is a special piece of music. I'm listening to the OST again this morning, and just had my mind blown listening to the track "Bull Olympics." The track is mostly an extended workout for the theme that I call the "Spain Theme," but mostly because I don't know what to call it! "Spain Theme" has an A and a B section. The A section starts at 0:24, B at 0:34: 0:24 - 0:46 ANYWAY, listening to "Bull Olympics" there's a teensy quote of the Pacifist Theme I wrote about earlier that I never noticed till this morning. At 0:54, there's like a three second quick quote of it unless I've just listened to the score so much my ears are playing tricks on me. The setting is so different from how the theme is usually presented, I just never made the connection before. Especially because it immediately transitions into the A section of the Spain Theme. Either way, like I said before, it's part of what makes this OST so rewarding to delve into. Powell plays with the themes constantly, especially the one I'm calling either the Family Theme or Ferdinand's Theme (it's the very first thing played on the first track). But I don't have time to keep going into this right now. 23 hours ago, Not Mr. Big said: It really is an underrated score. The best Latin American 3D score of 2018 by a wide margin (Coco sucks). I feel obliged to point out that Spain is not in Latin America, but I understand what you're saying. And I agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasey Kockroach 2,344 Posted April 22, 2018 Share Posted April 22, 2018 I find a lot of Powell scores to be similarly rewarding to revisit for that reason, but Ferdinand is definitely particularly compelling in that aspect. As for Coco, I recall seeing the film and realizing in disappointment upon finishing that I didn't hear a single note of score. Giacchino wasn't asked to tell a story, he was asked to put some music on top as background noise. Whereas even the lesser Powell scores for animation are solid enough stories told through music. Sort of like Horner's animated film music, but more passionate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Disco Stu 15,495 Posted April 22, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted April 22, 2018 Agreed. The surface pleasures of a Powell animated score are always immense so the OSTs can be appreciated casually, but at their best reward full immersion as well. Kasey Kockroach, DemonStar and Loert 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Loert 2,511 Posted April 22, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted April 22, 2018 @Disco Stu In anticipation of your upcoming analysis I am sure that you've noticed the way in which Powell transforms the "Spain theme" into the major key at the end of "Madrid Finale". This is an example of one of my favourite compositional techniques (i.e. "changing" a theme right at the end of a work) as it creates a kind of closure which is unique to music as an art form. Powell has done this kind of thing in multiple previous scores. For instance, in Pan he makes a very subtle change to Theme No.2 (I dunno how else to call it - it's the second theme which appears in the Opening Overture!) literally in the last minute of the score: What I find most interesting is not the fact that the theme is in a major key (I think that's been done before in the score). What is interesting is that the three notes at 2:36 are played higher than usual. This is the only time in the score that these notes are raised in this way, and I think this gives those three notes, which take up the space of a little over a second, a special dramatic significance. Ergo for the last note of the melody, which is raised to a fifth above the tonic rather than the major second. Another "transformation" of a different kind arises at the end of How To Train Your Dragon. This involves a change of orchestration in the "Test Drive" theme: This music is already familiar to the listener from previous scenes in the film. But there is one new thing Powell does here which I think is of particular significance. At 1:34, when the music enters the B section, the melody is played by TWELVE horns in unison. Now, the only other location in the film with a similar soundtrack is the end of Test Drive (see here). However, on that occasion, Powell uses SIX horns, which is a standard-sized horn section for a film. So Powell restrained the full blast of the horns until the final statement of the melody in the film, where he doubled their size. And you can hear the difference - if you compare the two musical moments in parallel (Test Drive, and Coming Back Around) the horns in the latter are much more audible and create an unusually powerful sound. For me, the ability to create and manipulate themes so efficiently and with such clarity is equal to a mastery of using music as a means of dramatic communication, and is one of the main reasons why Powell is one of my favourite living composers. UPDATE: I just noticed that in HTTYD, the B theme played by twelve horns also appears at the end of "Battling the Green Death". But in that particular instance, I think the "hurried" character of the music is significantly different from the grander tone of Test Drive and Coming Back Around. And I think there's defintely something to be said about how Powell kept to six horns in Test Drive when he could have easily gone for twelve. The Illustrious Jerry, Jay, Kasey Kockroach and 4 others 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Stu 15,495 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 2 hours ago, Loert said: @Disco Stu In anticipation of your upcoming analysis I am sure that you've noticed the way in which Powell transforms the "Spain theme" into the major key at the end of "Madrid Finale". You mean the gorgeous rendition on cello at 10:34? It's so good. Man, you're raising the bar high for me! I'm not sure I'm music theory literate enough to analyze to that level of detail. I was really just planning on doing a theme guide presenting what the themes are and how/where they're used. Mostly to show how densely packed the score is with just a few melodic ideas that he uses in such inventive ways that you often don't even realize that you're hearing the same few melodies over and over. But mostly I'm just so excited to have sparked a conversation about Ferdinand, which I thought was getting criminally un-discussed or even unfairly dismissed by the enthusiast community. Kasey Kockroach 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasey Kockroach 2,344 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 I'm really meek about trying to discuss music itself, as I've long found it difficult to articulate why certain scores resonate with my ears. They just do. I'm not educated or particularly bright, so I've long assumed I only love Powell's music so much simply because I'm an idiot with poor taste and someday I'll wise up and listen to "real music". Being assured here that it's okay if Madrid Finale moves me to tears is comforting and cathartic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,346 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 1 hour ago, kaseykockroach said: I'm really meek about trying to discuss music itself, as I've long found it difficult to articulate why certain scores resonate with my ears. They just do. I'm not educated or particularly bright, so I've long assumed I only love Powell's music so much simply because I'm an idiot with poor taste and someday I'll wise up and listen to "real music". Being assured here that it's okay if Madrid Finale moves me to tears is comforting and cathartic. Reminds me of this post I saw on filmtracks a while back: Quote "Honestly, I cannot explain why I like the scores that I do... I have difficulty with that. I feel clumsy, like a caveman asking out a girl: "Me think this score pretty. Me like it." There is enjoyment, there is a measure of appreciation, but there is no lucid expression of why that is so." Kasey Kockroach 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toothless 963 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 I remember following the scoring sessions bits posted by Powel on facebook. It was mostly flower theme. It's just sooo good. @Loert Thanks for this great analysis ! I can say I'm pretty good at spoting theses differences but I'm unfortunately unable to put words on it so thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brundlefly 2,385 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 On 22.4.2018 at 6:12 PM, kaseykockroach said: I find a lot of Powell scores to be similarly rewarding to revisit for that reason, but Ferdinand is definitely particularly compelling in that aspect. As for Coco, I recall seeing the film and realizing in disappointment upon finishing that I didn't hear a single note of score. Giacchino wasn't asked to tell a story, he was asked to put some music on top as background noise. Whereas even the lesser Powell scores for animation are solid enough stories told through music. Sort of like Horner's animated film music, but more passionate. That's what I thought, when I watched Miss Peregrine's Home for Peculiar Children. "Man, couldn't they at least give these eerie eye eating dude's a theme or a motif? Nothing! Themes and motifs support the storytelling, did you know?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasey Kockroach 2,344 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 It's also a wasted oppurtunity that Coco's songs and score have no thematic connection (as far as I could tell). Compare that to the "Real in Rio" song being the main theme in Powell's score, in terms of him scoring musicals. Though in fairness, Coco has a lot more cooks in its kitchen than Ferdinand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Stu 15,495 Posted April 24, 2018 Share Posted April 24, 2018 Hey guys, see my video of the isolated score for "Flower Festival" here: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Disco Stu 15,495 Posted November 8, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted November 8, 2018 I'm still listening to this score because it's a damn near masterpiece! I never really got around to exploring other themes! Doing one tonight. One of the things I love about this score is that, while it has several prominent recurring melodies, it isn't really a leitmotivic score at all. I think the melodies do represent general concepts, but Powell clearly treats them more as emotional building blocks for his compositions and uses them all very liberally throughout the cues, often without all that much regard for what they are accompanying on screen. It's more about what fits the feeling he's going for. Tonight I'm really feeling what I call the Family Theme. It's a beautiful, simple, almost domestic melody. I think it recalls childhood memories of hearth, home, and happiness. It's the very first melody heard on the soundtrack, at the beginning of "Bees and Bulls." (0:00 - 0:14) It's developed in the beginning of "Selection Process," but it's real first starring appearance is "Father and Son" (central melody starts at 0:08 - 0:40, Pacifist theme from 0:40 - 1:06, Family Theme is developed until the end, although the cue actually ends with a hint of the great Flower Theme) Now the Family Theme is probably the third most recurring melody in the score (after the main Spain theme and the Flower) but it can be used in subtle places if you're listening for it. I mean little tossed off asides like this: (1:37 - 1:57) But I love it best when it's mining deeply emotional territory: (piccolo comes in with the melody at 3:40, but listen to that beautiful guitar setting it up) Here's a very quick badass statement of the theme in the horns in "Flower Festival" (3:30) Now prepare to have your heart broken by this development in "There's Been a Mistake," which takes the base melody and radically transforms it into a song-like lament. It's up for debate if this actually is the Family Theme, maybe. To me it sounds like taking that melody and just adding to it. (0:55 - end basically) The Family Theme practically disappears from the second half of the score, but it can be heard a couple of times. In "Ferdinand and Nina" from 1:16 - 1:57, a very wistful setting Bofur01, Kasey Kockroach, SteveMc and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasey Kockroach 2,344 Posted November 8, 2018 Share Posted November 8, 2018 You’re doing God’s work, Stu. Disco Stu 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveMc 2,674 Posted November 8, 2018 Share Posted November 8, 2018 50 minutes ago, Disco Stu said: The beauty of this is stunning. Disco Stu 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Kasey Kockroach 2,344 Posted November 8, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted November 8, 2018 In case you needed reassurance in any way, your Ferdinand posts are deeply appreciated! In the hopes this analogy will make any sense, is it odd that I subconsciously consider it the Powell equivalent of Elfman's Black Beauty or Williams' War Horse? All animal-centered scores, all rich and emotional with strong sense of narrative. Except the tale of the bull in Powell's case, rather than horses. Bofur01, Will and Disco Stu 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,066 Posted February 8, 2021 Share Posted February 8, 2021 On 12/20/2017 at 8:37 PM, publicist said: That score is awfully hard to get a grasp on. Some moments are pure modern overwroughtness and in between are wonderfully comfy, delicate Berlioz-ian arrangements and somehow there must be an ideal reduction of both to a nice little album but i'm not there yet. Just my thoughts as well. I just bought this for about £5, which seems like a reasonable price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,352 Posted October 8, 2021 Author Share Posted October 8, 2021 I just finished re-reading this thread. Apparently I really liked this score when it came out! For whatever reason though it never entered my frequent rotation. This week when I finally took the shrinkwrap off my physical edition that LLL released and listened to it over two work commutes, I felt like I was listening to a brand new score! I probably had not heard it in over 3 years, and had forgotten much about it. I am sad to report I was not wowwed by the score! Maybe I just wasn't in the right mood, maybe because I've never seen the film I have no clue what any of the music represents... who knows, but this listen didn't make an impact. I'll try to give it another listen with a fresh mind sometime soon. The booklet for the LLL edition is really nice! Artwork by Dan Goldwasser, and you can view most of it here: https://www.warmbutter.com/albums/ferdinand/ I learned from the booklet that Batu Sener, Anthony Willis, AND Paul Mounsey all contributed additional music to this score! I wonder if that was known before? The digital edition surely doesn't say. Also Powell conducted this score himself, which is rare for him (and had been pointed out earlier in this thread as well). Also, it's a Shawn Murphy recording! I somehow hadn't realized that he ever worked with Powell. There's a wonderful quote from Powell inside the booklet. " It gave me great joy to write the music for Ferdinand... Apart from the utter delight of finally workign on a pacifist-themed Hollywood film, it touched so many places in my heart... The fickle bee of fate, the madness of tradition, the flowers of love, and the acceptance of the fragility of life... All this and fart gags for the kids, too. -JP " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mstrox 6,651 Posted October 8, 2021 Share Posted October 8, 2021 I was not a huge fan of Ferdinand myself (film or album). Seemed pretty serviceable, but not something I’d throw on out of any significant desire for the score. Probably bottom tier when it comes to animated Powell scores - and there are some real good ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Stu 15,495 Posted October 8, 2021 Share Posted October 8, 2021 And I still think it's Powell's greatest work.... 13 minutes ago, Jay said: I learned from the booklet that Batu Sener, Anthony Willis, AND Paul Mousnsey all contributed additional music to this score! I wonder if that was known before? The digital edition surely doesn't say. Yes, I got the LLL physical CD back when it first came out (and didn't leave it in the shrink wrap!). I seem to remember Batu putting one of the cues he did on his soundcloud. It was a short cue right after the masterful "Flower Festival" that wasn't included on the OST (although I think it was on the FYC). The bull in the china shop cue. I mean.... for real. This is jaw-dropping. My favorite cue Powell's ever done. No one does animation better this century. On 24/04/2018 at 7:02 AM, Disco Stu said: FERDINAND Flower Festival (John Powell) Just a few edit points and one tiny bit of percussion loop I had to extend very clumsily, but nothing that detracts from the listening experience. This cue was pretty terribly mixed at a low volume for a lot of the sequence, especially the more action-oriented part. So in presenting Powell's intentions more clearly communicated, I hope I'm righting a great wrong for one of the best film score cues of the decade. SteveMc and Kasey Kockroach 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,352 Posted October 8, 2021 Author Share Posted October 8, 2021 Glad you like the score so much, Stu! Watching the video, I'm not really hearing what could make it one of the best cues of the entire 2010s. We got so many great cues throughout that decade but I don't hear what aspects of this composition would cause it to be ranked so highly. The action part in particular isn't as wow-inducing for me as his Solo action music Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Stu 15,495 Posted October 8, 2021 Share Posted October 8, 2021 And my great confession is that I've never loved Solo as much as others on the board, even the other big Powell fans. Don't get me wrong, it's fantastic work, but it's not one that stays in my rotation. That cue and the whole Ferdinand score just make feel so happy. Kasey Kockroach and Jurassic Shark 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,352 Posted October 8, 2021 Author Share Posted October 8, 2021 Different strokes for different folks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,066 Posted October 8, 2021 Share Posted October 8, 2021 It's like a classical piece with Powell's signature drum patterns thrown in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Stu 15,495 Posted October 8, 2021 Share Posted October 8, 2021 I hear a lot of Powell in the melodies myself. I think he incorporates the Spanish feel into his style seamlessly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,066 Posted October 8, 2021 Share Posted October 8, 2021 I meant it could be a reason Jay doesn't like it that much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,346 Posted October 8, 2021 Share Posted October 8, 2021 Horton was also recorded with Murphy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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