James Horner's TITANIC (2017 4CD expanded edition from La-La Land Records)

[TitanicFan2018 30]

On 12/18/2017 at 11:03 AM, Mr. Who said:

 

As for why LLL included all those OST versions on disc 1 and labeled film versions as "alternate", I get why they did it, but I would have preferred that they put the film version of southampton and the alt mix of Rose etc on disc 1 instead of the OST versions.

 

When I did my custom presentation of the score, I put the film versions of "Southampton", "Leaving Port, and "Rose" into their proper order in the score, while putting their OST counterparts with the additional music and alternates.  The film version of "Southampton", I really like a lot, far more than the OST version.

[Datameister 2,037]

100% agreed. I did the same for my own future listening.

[TitanicFan2018 30]

Another discovery I made a while back while I was looking at the cue sheet.  You know the "Hard To Starboard (extended version)" track on LLL disc 1.  That three-note brass motif (w/ high strings) that closes out the cue is actually a standalone cue called "Hard To Starboard - Extension".  I think Horner intended to crossfade it into the larger cue (like LLL did), but in the film there's a 9-second break between the cues.

 

In my score presentation, I did use the OST version of "Take Her To Sea, Mr. Murdoch" but added in the heavier thumping bass line from the film mix.

[TitanicFan2018 30]

Now, it would be great to have a film mix of the OST get released, particularly cues like "Rose", "Take Her To Sea, Mr. Murdoch" (thumping bass line amped up), and "Unable To Stay, Unable To Leave" (bagpipes removed).

[bollemanneke 3,338]

You can easily create that yourself. The dirty work has already been done somewhere.

[TitanicFan2018 30]

More realistically, I would like this 20th anniversary album to get released on iTunes eventually, as well as a 4-CD set.  It was the case for the previous releases of the soundtrack (OST, BTT, and the 2012 anniversary edition).

[Bilbo 3,709]

That doesn’t usually happen with these types of releases does it? 

[bollemanneke 3,338]

Why do you want an iTunes version?

[TitanicFan2018 30]

I think this album deserves an iTunes release because it is superior to previous releases which were just re-releases of the OST and Back to Titanic (just remastered).  Much of it is really enjoyable to listen to, especially the film versions of particular cues and unused material.  The OST was quite a disappointment.

[Bilbo 3,709]

I’d say they were fairly happy with how the OST performed and I’d say Titanic plus Back to Titanic are enough for the average consumer.

[TitanicFan2018 30]

I listened to BTT a while ago, and I have to say most of it sucked (especially "Titanic Suite").  I only liked a couple tracks: "The Portrait [album version]" (more proper recording of that piano demo), and "A Building Panic [album suite]" ("A Building Panic" edited with "Trapped on 'D' Deck" and "The Sinking").  Even I prefer the OST over BTT, to be honest.

[NL197 368]

Digital releases aren't a bad idea, but they do literally nothing for the labels. In fact, if the Titanic 20th anniversary album were ever to be released that way, LLL wouldn't make a cent off of it. Paramount and Sony would. 

[TitanicFan2018 30]

Also, all three Lord of the Rings films (the score composed by Howard Shore) had complete releases like over a decade ago, and they're available for purchase on iTunes.  

[crumbs 14,305]

I wonder why labels don't use digital releases as leverage to get expansions done in the first place (maybe they try?). 

 

For example, they could approach studios, offer to produce soundtrack expansions in exchange for the studio paying for the tape scans and the label having a 3000-5000 physical unit exclusivity before studios can release the expansions themselves digitally.

 

That type of arrangement would work well for studios that aren't interested in manufacturing physical releases. 

[Bilbo 3,709]

37 minutes ago, TitanicFan2018 said:

Also, all three Lord of the Rings films (the score composed by Howard Shore) had complete releases like over a decade ago, and they're available for purchase on iTunes.  

 

 

They werent released by specialty labels though.  

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

1 hour ago, crumbs said:

I wonder why labels don't use digital releases as leverage to get expansions done in the first place (maybe they try?). 

 

For example, they could approach studios, offer to produce soundtrack expansions in exchange for the studio paying for the tape scans and the label having a 3000-5000 physical unit exclusivity before studios can release the expansions themselves digitally.

 

That type of arrangement would work well for studios that aren't interested in manufacturing physical releases. 

 

They'd probably demand a limit of 3,000 downloads.

[Brundlefly 2,385]

1 hour ago, Bilbo said:

They werent released by specialty labels though.  

I was always wondering, are these Complete Recording releases professionally produced as the usual LLL release or are they more like the Concord Indiana Jones set?

[Holko 9,499]

13 minutes ago, Brundlefly said:

I was always wondering, are these Complete Recording releases professionally produced as the usual LLL release or are they more like the Concord Indiana Jones set?

 

Between the two, much closer to the former. There are no alternates (one could fill 2 or 3-disc sets just with alternates, though) or major remastering (would they even need it?), but aside from Fellowship, which is virtually an isolated score with some recreated tracking and such, it sports the unedited and final intended versions of all cues, even dropped ones. The booklets have breakdowns of all major and most minor themes and motifs with little score excerpts. Both in execution and concept, they are far above the Concord Indies, those do not recreate intended transitions, put random cues on a bonus disc and leave others out completely, present early versions of cues at times, and of course the infamous incorrect pitch. The worst the CRs ever get from a technical standpoint is the nearly completely dialed out choir in Keep it Secret, Keep it Safe because it's also dialed down in the movie, or sequencing issues stemming from using the unedited intended cues written for an earlier cut, and trying to put them roughly in the final film order, causing things like Faramir getting reprimanded for losing Osgiliath a track before he loses Osgiliath.

[bollemanneke 3,338]

I find the CRS presentation extremely satisfying.

[Chen G. 3,944]

Especially in tandem with the OST, Rarities and Fan-credits.

 

The CR isn't meant to replace any of those. Its meant to sit besides them.

[bollemanneke 3,338]

They're all alone on my shelf though, and forever will be.

[TitanicFan2018 30]

At least be grateful the EDM version of the tragic leitmotif isn't on LLL, and I think it's way too cheesy.  I'd choose Horner's original score over this any day.  Plus, I prefer Sissel's vocals over the ones heard here.

 

[NL197 368]

Get that shit the fuck out of here. 

 

 

[TitanicFan2018 30]

Just got rid of it.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Hey! Was gonna listen!

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

I like the counterpoint between the lower and higher register strings around 4 minute mark of A Promise Kept alternate. I know nothing about music, by the way.

 

Anyway, this is pure Horner.

[Richard Penna 3,676]

On 10/8/2018 at 9:23 AM, Brundlefly said:

I was always wondering, are these Complete Recording releases professionally produced as the usual LLL release or are they more like the Concord Indiana Jones set?

 

I'd say they're produced with more competency. However they're also done from polar opposite ideologies. It looked like Williams was needing persuasion to include anything substantial beyond the OSTS (the 5th CD doesn't quite fit into the box, indicating it was probably a last minute decision), whereas Shore approved the CRs and actively wanted the complete scores out there.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

It's a wonder they managed to get a wonky-sounding version of The Botanicus Theme sourced from a degraded copy of a copy out there. Williams must have just thought they were reissuing the OST on a new digital format and signed the papers.

[TitanicFan2018 30]

34 minutes ago, Richard Penna said:

 

I'd say they're produced with more competency. However they're also done from polar opposite ideologies. It looked like Williams was needing persuasion to include anything substantial beyond the OSTS (the 5th CD doesn't quite fit into the box, indicating it was probably a last minute decision), whereas Shore approved the CRs and actively wanted the complete scores out there.

 

Those complete recordings of the LOTR scores only have material heard in the film.  No alternates or album versions of cues.  And some of the cues have certain cast members singing in parts.  At least LLL included alternate cues when releasing the scores for Braveheart and Titanic.  Imagine if LLL decided to re-release the LOTR scores.

[Jay 37,323]

That's not true at all actually

[TitanicFan2018 30]

5 minutes ago, Jay said:

That's not true at all actually

 

I was talking about those complete recording 3 or 4 disc sets, which are also available on iTunes.  I got the complete recordings for LOTR: The Fellowship of the Ring, and all it has is cues used in the film.  There is a book which also contains a CD with alternate and unused cues.  LOTR, unlike the LLL releases of Braveheart and Titanic, have separate albums for the score presentation and alternate cues. 

 

Guess my next project is getting the complete recordings for LOTR: The Two Towers and LOTR: The Return of the King.

[Jay 37,323]

I know what you're talking about, and the three sets most certainly do not contain ONLY what is heard in the film.  All three sets contain music that was dialed out of the final film, longer verisons of cues that were used in the film, and TTT even features a true alternate edited into one of the tracks (that also contains the rewritten film version in the same track), etc.

[Richard Penna 3,676]

 

3 minutes ago, TitanicFan2018 said:

 

I got the complete recordings for LOTR: The Fellowship of the Ring, and all it has is cues used in the film.

 

Fellowship is different to the other two. It's more or less an isolated score (no one's really ever explained why) and pretty much does just have what's in the film. TTT and RotK are properly intended presentations and definitely don't just contain film versions.

[Jay 37,323]

FOTR isn't just an iso score though.  It mostly is, including tracking used in the final film, but it of course also includes music dialed out of the final cut, like the shadow world on Weathertop and the shadow world in Amon Hen, etc.  

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

Trapped on D Deck reminds me of Sneakers.

[TitanicFan2018 30]

14 minutes ago, Richard Penna said:

 

 

Fellowship is different to the other two. It's more or less an isolated score (no one's really ever explained why) and pretty much does just have what's in the film. TTT and RotK are properly intended presentations and definitely don't just contain film versions.

 

I'm curious to if film versions of certain cues for TTT and ROTK are on the Rarities album or their OSTs.  Once I get those scores and watch both films, I'll be creating custom presentations.

[Richard Penna 3,676]

The rarities do for a few cues, yes.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

I fancied the source music in a really long playlist in film order at one point, but I've moved them to their own section.

[Holko 9,499]

Just now, Jay said:

TTT even features a true alternate edited into one of the tracks (that also contains the rewritten film version in the same track)

Now that's news to me, which track?

[Faleel 5,342]

Probably Emyn Muil

[Jay 37,323]

Yep

 

He put a portion of the choral alternate on the OST, then on the CR he put a longer version of the choral alternate in the same track as the film version, then on the Rarities Archive he finally released the full choral alternate in its own track.  He must have really liked that passage to release it three times

[Chen G. 3,944]

1 hour ago, TitanicFan2018 said:

I'm curious to if film versions of certain cues for TTT and ROTK are on the Rarities album or their OSTs.  Once I get those scores and watch both films, I'll be creating custom presentations.

 

There's obviously some repeated material between the three, but each features alternate sections of the others: you have to use all three if you want to create a thorough edit; and I'd throw the fan-credits, The Symphony and any other alternate you can get your hands on into the mix.

 

The Two Towers OST features a recurring theme for Shadowfax that in the CR only appears once, during the charge at Helm's Deep. It has the gloomy choral music for Emyn Muil. During the Warg attack, it has a choral part that's in part dialed out of the CR in favor of highlighting a hardanger solo, etcetra. The Rarities have a brilliant piece for the Rohirrim attack on the Orc camp where Merry and Pippin are held. The fan-credits, too, feature a nice version of Evenstar (without the soloist) that functions like a nice formal theme presentation.

 

The Return of the King OST is most prominent for the major-key lighting of the beacons (which is just extraordinary) and more upbeat whistle performances for when Frodo and Sam are on the slopes of Mount Doom, and the deluxe edition has another end-credits song: Use Well the Days. The rarities has an extended choral section of the finale at Mount Doom which is another must.

 

Shore also arranged some of the Shire material from Return of the King for James Galway to perform with chamber orchestras. It sees Galway perform Dermot Crehan's fiddle solo on his flute, as well as playing the tin whistle as the orchestra performs the Hobbiton theme and the swell of the Shire theme at Sam's wedding, which is nice.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

Are you ready to go back to Titanic?

[TitanicFan2018 30]

32 minutes ago, Horner's Dynamic Range said:

Are you ready to go back to Titanic?

 

Yep, as I have a thread about the LOTR score.

[bollemanneke 3,338]

35 minutes ago, Horner's Dynamic Range said:

Are you ready to go back to Titanic?

No! Not without you!

[Bilbo 3,709]

8 minutes ago, bollemanneke said:

No! Not without you!

You jump I jump. Remember? 

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

Right side only! Hold the left side!

[TitanicFan2018 30]

On 10/15/2018 at 2:05 PM, Horner's Dynamic Range said:

Trapped on D Deck reminds me of Sneakers.

 

I just began listening to the Sneakers score, and somehow I don't see any connection with the "Trapped on 'D' Deck" cue.  But maybe there is one section in 'D' Deck that reminds you of Sneakers.  Can you chime in on that one?

 

The Main Title cue from Sneakers however does remind me of A Beautiful Mind.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

Playtronics Break-in is the key to all this.

[TitanicFan2018 30]

21 minutes ago, Horner's Dynamic Range said:

Playtronics Break-in is the key to all this.

 

You're right; I'm noticing similarities a minute and 14 seconds into the cue.  Horner was infamous for reusing of material between his film scores.  And "Trapped on 'D' Deck" is just one of several examples of him doing this (he quotes material from the Playtronics cue).  "Hard To Starboard" also reuses some of Playtronics as well as material from "Al Bathra" from Courage Under Fire.